The suicide of Bob Bergeron revisited

He didn't have an uncertain future financially or socially; he was just bitter about not being young or hot anymore.

What a shame. You obviously have to be seriously depressed to commit suicide, or fucked up on drugs or both.

I have been near that edge but never for such a simple thing as growing older. The vain origin of his existential crisis probably denote a very shallow personality.

He seems never to have gotten over the fact that he was extremely hot as a younger man and then less hot as he aged. It's very sad, although I know someone exactly like this. He, too, is bitter and has no friends. Sad, sad, sad.

Thank you OP for posting this. It had great meaning for me. I too was once a Golden Boy like Bob. But I've left that behind.

I often say that I'm in the Third Act of my life. I have found meaning by embarking on bringing the narratives of the first two together in the third. I'm lucky. I have a unique life obligation. Stepping up to that has offered me a creative path.

I'm still uncertain. The future is uncertain and risky. Sometimes I'm afraid. But I sense I'm doing something of worth. I hope I'm right :)

It's not easy - when is it ever? - but I'm happy in a daily sense of fulfillment. I only miss my past loves; all of them. But they live in me.

[quote]I have found meaning by embarking on bringing the narratives of the first two together in the third.

Which means what, exactly, R4?

What a bunch of bullshit.

Therapists are the craziest of the crazy. Like the blind leading the blind.

[quote] Which means what, exactly, [R4]?

R5 I've led two previous "lives". Far far apart in many many ways... but also sharing some core threads - hey, after all im one guy!

Now that I'm in my 50s, completely out-of-shape, mostly suburban, and monogamously partnered, I somehow feel like I don't quite fit into the gay community any more. If I do venture anywhere near a gay destination or establishment, I'm pretty much invisible. But you know... I'm okay with it. I had my time in the sun, now I can just hang out and not give a shit about what other people think of me or what I'm wearing.

Ryan Murphy should make a movie about Bob.

What ever happened to the movie of Dancer from the Dance? They were making one the last I heard.

Here's a very interesting You Tube Video of one of his seminars , notice at 48 he adopted some of the grooming norms of Chelsea twinks.

To Shirt or Not to Shirt , seems very shallow issue , the 50% rule ? Please ! Oh and the dyed hair and dyed facial hair ain't fooling anyone.

Never met him as our paths could very well have crossed, but his death saddens me greatly.

Read Harrison Bergeron. That will sadden you greatly too.

I remember him admitting he was a real bitch in his youth. He was very cruel to older gay men. Karma kicked his ass when he got older. I guess it was too painful to live with.

50's isn't the final chapter of anything OP. Cut your treacly drama and familiarity (what say ye? - puke) and get a life.

He was trying too hard, obsessed with being an "A" Gay and that colored his value system

He should have moved to a small town. He would still have been hot at 50.

The guy doesn't seem well in R13's clip. His mode of speaking , the way he moves his mouth....as if he's medicated.

I have also moved into the afternoon of my gay life now that I'm in my 50's

Lol r21

I just put together the fact that at least three times recently, I have run into people who don’t recognize me right away. At first I attributed it to my longer haircut but the reality has dawned on me that it’s because I’ve aged so much and gained weight. More amused than freaked, but aging, esp3cially for gay men, can be difficult.

I have a husband who still needs sex three times a week and two others obsessed with me, so keep in mind that your peers age too and there is still some spice at any age I believe.

He seems disturbed to me in that video. This is not a happy person, despite his apparently upbeat demeanor as outlined in the NY Times article. Obviously, that was a put on.

[r7] are therapists actually crazy

I've often heard it say that therapists, psychologists, and psychiatrists enter those professions because they have their own demons they're trying to excise. Their fascination with the field comes from trying to resolve their own mental health issues.

It seems to be the case for this guy.

I'm not 50 yet... but I am greying, balding, and putting on weight. I'm also single and unlikely to ever have a partner. I'm not handsome, I'm not wealthy, I'm not popular, and I rarely have sex. So why am I happy?

I find enjoyment in little things.

I can go to dinner with a friend and enjoy myself. It doesn't even have to be posted on Instagram.

I can spend an hour or two reading, watching tv, or listening to a podcast and really enjoy it.

I have a dog that I spend a lot of time training, walking, playing with. She never fails to make me smile when I get home, even if she did pull some paper towels out of the trash and shred them.

I am lucky enough to have a great, supportive family and friends, but I'll even take some of the credit there. Because I've had toxic people in my life, and I just quickly excise them.

Mostly it's because happiness comes from inside, not external things. Be yourself, and don't be concerned with keeping up with the Jones' or falling for some myth society has about money, looks, or popularity making you happy. If they do, it's short-term.

There are some simple meditations here.

I also like to read. I am looking for pleasant subjects now. And I watch DVDs sometimes. Radio talks. Rupert Sheldrake has some "esoteric" one that are kind of fun.

I'd like something else. Miss true friendships (local) - have one long-distance.

Oh, I meant R28 for another thread, but it might work here as well.

I remember this story and thought the guy was still good looking even though he was older. But he was trapped in narrow ideas about youth etc.

Yawn.... sounds like a white gay problem.

I commend you, r27.

I have to say, I feel very lucky to have chosen a profession that I find very fulfilling. I come home from work every day happy that I do what I do. I'm also extremely lucky to work in a very positive environment. If I didn't love what I do so much, I'm not sure but that I'd be depressed too.

based on the "shirt or not to shirt" vid one posted..Mr Bergeron seems off...he seems like far too many gay men that do not want to understand/accept that what one does in their 20's is not what one should be doing in their 40's...youth in the gay world is the number 1 commodity..but one can only be young once...for me it has very little to do with attractiveness ( except for some on a physical level) and that is always fleeting and always in the eye of the beholder.

R27 Congratulations and thanks for that posting. I'm middle aged myself. While I'm told I look young for my age (full head of hair, very little gray), I can't compete with Millennials, many of whom were were attractive even in their teens. In fact, I sometimes resent the younger generation for being to live out and proud in the prime of their lives, when it was dangerous to do that when I was young. They remind me of what I missed out on in my youth.

Have you ever experienced that?

[quote]Have you ever experienced that?

In some manner, I suppose. I can't say I've resented the younger generation for that, although I've certainly had regrets for things I did, or didn't do, in the past.

There's a quote that I really like, and remind myself of this frequently: "Learn from the past, look towards the future, but live for today." Ironically, the quote is from the supermodel Petra Nemcova. But if you're familiar with her, she seems like an incredible person who does a ton of philanthropy work. She also survived the Dec 2004 Thai tsunami by holding on to a palm tree for eight hours!

R34 That's interesting, I need to look her up.

Any books or websites you can recommend?

Weird. You can look your personal *hottest* in your 30s-40s (even 50s maybe) if you just roll with it and keep up healthy and fit living. I'm in my 20s and regularly find certain 30s+ men hotter than many/most 20somethings, and I'm not even some 'daddy chaser'.

Anyway this Bob guy comes off as too desperate in his old video demeanor.

I'm not looking forward to my 60s but everything before that sounds okay as long as I get to the gym (andacuretoaginghappens). I don't need every hot 18 year old. I won't necessarily want every hot 20something.

[quote][R34] That's interesting, I need to look her up.

Eh, she probably stole the quote from someone else. But regardless, she's a ballsy lady who I have a lot of respect for.

[quote]Any books or websites you can recommend?

I tend to read a lot of autobiographies, which may or may not be inspiring. Recently read "Thunder Dog" a book by a blind gentleman who was in the WTC on 9/11, and was led down 50+ flights by his Guide dog. It was amazing to read all of his accomplishments in life as a blind person, and surviving 9/11 was just one of them. I saw his story in the news when he visited the WTC memorial this year. Amazing guy.

I like you too, r27. You sound like someone worth knowing.

[quote]I can't compete with Millennials, many of whom were were attractive even in their teens. In fact, I sometimes resent the younger generation for being to live out and proud in the prime of their lives, when it was dangerous to do that when I was young. They remind me of what I missed out on in my youth.

r33 — it's amazing, isn't it? I remember after the Pulse shooting, when buildings around the USA were lighted in rainbow colors and most people were talking about the loss of young life. The fact that they were gay was both accepted and secondary.

I am a gay guy in my early 50s, and I cannot relate much to any of this poor guy's dilemma. I was a loner kind of kid, and developed the habit of not seeking approval from "the group" because I understood they rarely meant ME in all of their group-think. I am in great shape, am decent looking, and am far too busy living my (single) life to even think of these issues mostly. I am not a big boyfriend/husband type and have always tried to develop new friendships and enjoy my acquaintances. I am happily involved in my career, and really don't get too bogged down in all of these ephemeral externals. You CAN be quite happy if you develop YOURSELF as a person! Aging does seem harder for shallow people, just my observation.

Bob sounds incredibly shallow. And unethical. And why was the writer so pointed about calling everyone every time “Mr.”?

^ NYT pretty much calls everybody Mr, or Ms. It’s their house style.

I remember the thread on here when poor Bob Bergeron topped himself - withba title like ‘affable eldergay...sonething something...kills himself’?

Anyway - remember reading it at the time and feeling so sorry for him. He seemed really vulnerable and depressed leading up to his death. And I seem to remember some posters at the time saying that a recent increase in Tina usage might also have been to blame? (and didn’t that former playgirl model, dirk schaffer, who they made the ‘man of the year’ docco about ages ago - also die around the same time? Found almost naked in his car - lotsa Tina and coke in his system too?).

I really get upset to see members of our tribe end this way. It seems such a waste. Specially since so often it seems drug related in one way or another. Seen so many good men I’ve known over the years disappear down that black hole and lose everything. Horrible.

R42 I agree 200% the best thing any gay man can do is to begin to wean himself from the gay mainstream starting around age 45, no steriods, no cosmetic surgery , no daily use of viagra , no buying clothes at H&M, and no Audi Convertible

I've never had a stage when I was beautiful and I was desired by all (maybe in college--but I was deeply in the closet so didn't take advantage of any of the attention).

So, it doesn't really bother me so much that people don't cruise me and even turn their heads for a second look now that I'm in my 40's.

He seemed to have analyzed his feelings towards aging as he wrote a book about it. I guess he didn't believe what he wrote.

I’m with r27

Suicidio!

In questi fieri momenti

tu sol mi resti,

e il cor mi tenti.

Ultima voce

del mio destino,

ultima croce

del mio cammin.

E un dì leggiadro

volavan l'ore,

perdei la madre,

perdei l'amore,

vinsi l'infausta

gelosa febre!

Or piombo esausta

Fra le tenèbre! Tocco alla mèta... Domando al cielo Di dormir quieta Dentro l'avel...

....

[quote]I agree 200% the best thing any gay man can do is to begin to wean himself from the gay mainstream starting around age 45

I think 25 is a better place to start.

Silly me. I thought OP's link would be a new perspective on the topic.

Women have been dealing with this forever, though. Losing jobs and husbands and status is considered just part of life for them as they age. Happens to an actor instead of an actress and suddenly it's a tragedy?

R40 doesn't read the NYT.

R50 here - should have said celeb and not "actor," I'm typing too fast.

What a pathetic creature Bob was. He was far too obsessed with his ability to attract. Ugly trait.

The "gay mainstream"? What's that? Kind of silly.

Growing older can be very hard. The least of it is not being able to dance all night with hot guys or have that house in the Hamptons or whatever: it's staying alive and healthy. I have always maintained that apart from staying fit and as healthy as possible, I would never do anything artificial to make myself "younger". Rather accept what is happening, and happens to virtually everyone. If I cannot cope- get help from an analyst and/or pharmacology rather than the surgeon or dematologist.

Poor guy could not evolve as he aged. We all have to do it, to change, to find new pleasures, to accept life as it is not as you want it to be, and to learn how to love. If you learn how to love people- rather than focus on being loved- the rest takes care of itself pretty much. It's not easy- I'm still working on it at 64- the closer I can stay to people, the better I am, although sometimes my instinct says to isolate- never a good choice.

Long ago I noticed that successful aging was about giving, with expecting to receive- loving without expecting anything in return and maintaining an interest in people both close and not so close to you. I notice that about happy older friends both male and female. Like I said, I have to work at it. I find it the only solution to continue to enjoy life.

I have encountered something I did not expect at all: the realization that under the best of circumstances, that in a relatively short time, I will be gone. Twenty years ago seems like nothing. I assume twenty years ahead of me if I am lucky will be here tomorrow morning. Best take that new new friend out to dinner tonight and enjoy-

"without" expecting to receive above. Big typo!

He is gorgeous in the OP photo. You know, we have no idea what was really going on with him. "he wasn't hot anymore" seems like an easy way to dismiss his pain and distance ourselves from the possibility that this kind of depression can happen to us.

Is it terrible that I look at some of my friends and think "them in 15 years." It has got to be exhausting to be an A gay.

[quote]Twenty years ago seems like nothing. I assume twenty years ahead of me if I am lucky will be here tomorrow morning.

I'm your age and I think the same thing too.

He sounds like he was messed up long before the suicide.

From the NYT: His sexual history, his clubbing and the steps he took to stay H.I.V.-negative were all things he occasionally discussed with his clients. From time to time, a person he hooked up with subsequently became a client, according to two former patients who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

This indicates he was a narcissist with very poor boundaries, a serious issue for a therapist. He was having sex with clients (I am sure his hook ups did not end when his bedfellows became his clients). What he did was very inappropriate.

The ex bf sounds a little suspect. He was imagining Bob had all these issues and was concerned about him after he'd been missing a day?

Also they make a lot of him being hot in the article, but in all the photos his boyfriends are much hotter. Even his younger pictures. He's attractive, sure, but the fact that someone remembered some drunk guy bowing to him in Mykonos seems like way too much importance put on looks when he was, at best, attractive but not "Herb Rifts model", attractive.

The way his novel process was described makes him sound obsessive, almost manic, so that does make me wonder if there was drug use going on at the time. It's not unusual to rewrite a book several times before publication if you're working with a good editor though, so who knows.

[quote]Twenty years ago seems like nothing. I assume twenty years ahead of me if I am lucky will be here tomorrow morning.

My experience has been that as you age, time feels to fly by faster. It could be that one year was once a significant chunk of your life when you were, say, 16. But at 46, one year is a blip. Or maybe because there are so many distinct segments in your early life (grade school, junior high, high school college) and when your older it tends to be one big chunk of time: "accountant" or "salesman".

In any event, I can't believe how quickly the last 20 years have gone by. Remember all the freak outs about Y2K? 18 years ago...

I knew him a little and he did have something special. In the Pines of the 1990’s he was one of my favorites but I’m partial to all American blonds.

Everyone who ages goes through what he did, to some degree. His inability to deal with aging is very depressing to me. Whoever advised to cut the cord with the gay party circuit as early as possible was smart. It’s depressing as hell to age in a community where hot young guys who are excited by a party scene and a new freedom just keep arriving, year after year.

I haven’t given up trying to stay in shape and look as good as I can for now but I’m happily partnered, have always been sober, don’t party at all and hang out with guys my own age. But we all make our own paths.

Considering what any gay man has lived through, just getting to his 50’s alive, financially secure and healthy is success enough.

r61 I completely agree. Time seems SO SLOW when you're 16, and now I blink and a year has gone by. Three days before a holiday was an eternity. Now, it's the same time it takes me to Just for Men my beard and moisturize.

He was attractive but certainly not drop dead gorgeous. He obviously had a distorted view of himself which worsened with age.

So there is an advantage to being unattractive and disinterested in gay culture as a youth. There’s nothing to miss as you age.

Sad story on so many levels.

Imagine if he'd released his book. I wonder if gay men everywhere would have followed his path.... and then offed themselves.

The creepiest part is that it is so easy to see WHY he killed himself from watching those videos. That kind of self-defeating, small-minded thinking is soul-deadening. You can tell by his weird mouth contortions and tone that he does not believe what he is saying. He said in his suicide note that all the shallow, superficial bullshit he "advised" was, indeed, bullshit. He was either mentally ill, depressed or just, literally, kind of stupid. Sad, sad, sad. That "to shirt or not to shirt" nonsense is perhaps the worst of the lot. That, what was it, "50% rule?" WTF?

[quote] I'm not looking forward to my 60s but everything before that sounds okay as long as I get to the gym (andacuretoaginghappens).

You've sure got the right attitude. I foresee much happiness in your future.

His emphasizing how 'to remain a sex object' - jesus-please-us that is really off the wall delusional. As if it's a worthwhile goal!

Listening to his youtube videos about aging are quite the experience. It's clear he has no conviction about what's he's saying, and his ideas are so shallow.

I am so glad I got out of the gay ghetto world at an early age. I don't know why some of you keep calling it "the mainstream." I honestly don't think it is at all--I think it's a small but very visible part of the subculture. There are lots of gay men who obsess over Fire Island and Mykonos, but it is not the majority of gay men.

How about that "countdown to 65" bullshit? Reminded me of the wicked witch saying to Dorothy (watching the sand go through the timer) "That's how much longer you've got to be alive!" Ridiculously irresponsible and unethical (if the dude was an actual licensed counselor or therapist) to tell anyone "how much longer you have to be young." WTF?

His suicide was a massive correction for a complete lack of authenticity. At least he came to realize what a shallow, damaged piece of work he was and put an end to inflicting his harmful bullshit on others. Yes, it a tragedy but he was loathsome. I abhor narcissists who preach to others. Manipulative, self-absorbed asshole. There's nothing particularly profound here. A con artist at the end of the line. That is all.

DL likes to criticize lesbians, but they do have sensible and realistic views about getting older and don't judge each other so harshly for it.

Agree r74 - maybe because they see clearly and reject the whole misogynistic belief that older women should be put out to pasture. Gay men tend not to be as aware of the toxicity of ageism until it hits them. Especially if they are pretty in their youth.

I feel fortunate that my education and career emphasized the need for an attractive personality, self-awareness, intelligence and kindness over beauty. Allowed me to accept aging more easily than my superficial, gym obsessed friends. Never easy - but I never feel excluded- because I don’t want to be around people who are exclusionary. I’m more than happy to go to gay events and gay bars - but am very happy without them. They do tend to be youth and beauty-obsessive. However, lesbian gatherings are always fun - and the wisest people I know are elderly lesbians.

It speaks volumes about the New York publishing industry that they'd choose an aging circuit queen to school eldergays on the fine points of living an authentic life. The level of cynicism is revolting. Glad they won't get their advance back.

I can imagine the pivitol event that set Bob off to the great beyond. He's at the rowing machine at Equinox obsessing over his chapter about how one can be as hot at 50 as at 25 and some budding young A-listed tells him, "Move over, gramps!"

Herb RITTS, r60.

No need to create a "Rift."

What Bob thought was "important" was truly "not at all important". It's sad that all he already lost the only things in life that he thought held any value - his looks.

I'm pretty gay, I have a husband, I love drag queens, I love bjork, I like sassy humor... but I never defined myself by what the gay community thought of me. I hope to my benefit.

Much of the article is speculation about his motives for committee suicide. My feeling is that he had no close friends and would probably never get married. Who wants to live like that, having your parents be the only people you're really connected to?

[quote] Who wants to live like that, having your parents be the only people you're really connected to?

Are you sure you want to ask that question on the DL?

Many young and the beautiful gays grow accustomed to the fawning, the long list of admirers, the endless amount of sex, and multiple opportunities that arise just by simply being young and beautiful. Of course, they only socialize with, date and have sex with other likewise young and beautiful gays. It’s a closed society and no one else less attractive is welcomed unless they have status or money. By virtue of beauty alone, rich men pamper them.

These beautiful young men have based the foundation of their lives by being on this “A” list. Likewise, many are incapable of forming deep friendships because the young and beautiful are only interested in others being young and beautiful. The only exception is that they might settle down with to rich men, who will pay for an extravagant lifestyle. This is based on illusion and many do not fathom that they can be replaced at any time when their youth and beauty fade.

As they age, the perks start to slip away and they live in denial about it. When they hit 40, it’s all over. They are no longer allowed in this exclusive club. The invitations stop, their so called friends disappear, because not one wants to be friends with an aging queen. It’s all about youth and beauty. The newly inducted beautiful and young don’t accept them. They’re seen as foolish as desperately cling to the illusion of youth and beauty. They’re laughed at and shunned. The rich guys evaporate, along with the perks they offer.

The former beauties reject men of their age or older or the less attractive. They only want young and beautiful men, who don’t want them unless they pay for it. They don’t want to build another life, they just want what they had. It’s a life they feel is their entitlement.

Unless they change their attitude and accept their life as it is, they can embark on a new life with meaning and fulfillment. Many do not.

Ultimately, they become embittered, resentful, hateful, and lonely. If they don’t commit suicide immediately, they commit it slowly with booze or drugs.

R83 well said

I agree with what everyone here has said but I'll be damned if I did not find that Times article to be the most depressing thing ever.

The only people I've ever known to have killed themselves were always cheerful. Oppressively cheerful. Like this guy.

Sort of like what Joan Collins said about being a beauty in youth and growing old: it’s like you’re born rich and then get a bit poorer every day.

You have to make your peace with it. And really, losing sexual attraction seems minor to me amidst the other losses that invariably come with aging.

I don’t have any scorn for Bob Bergeron, but I guess I do pity him and partially blame the culture that surrounded him. Many gay men don’t have the tight-knit family to rely on for support as we get older, and much of our own sub-culture has been built up to exlude us once we reach an expiration date on our near universal fuckability.

I wonder with all the cultural upheavals that the West is experiencing if we will also have one regarding growing old.

I think we are due. Especially women and gay men.