Titanic: The Movie

I get annoyed that Jack's paintings and drawings are boringly true to life, unlike Rose's forward thinking taste in art (who, as we see has already embraced the new Expressionist wave of art that signified the beginning of Modernism in the 1910s). Had he survived, I felt like Jack was going to turn Rose into a shadow of her former self and make her lose all of her bold ideas and affinity for the avant garde for Jack's cliched romantic, American view of the world. At least with Cal, Rose was so dissatisfied that she was her own person. Whereas being with Jack seemed to make her lose her identity completely. Indeed, she even takes his name when the ship sinks.

I hate that old, senile bitch at the end of the film too. What a fucking waste. And there was room on that board or whatever it was for Jack.

It bugs me that the tux fits Jack perfectly. Otherwise, I love this movie.

r1, I really like that Rose is intellectually curious and, for all of its faults (especially with dialogue), i appreciate that Titanic gave us a female character who was presented as someone with ideas and curiosity and not just the stereotypical damsel in distress dreaming for a man to rescue her. I absolutely loved Rose's line commenting on her copy of the iconic Picasso from 1907, the one with the four whores in it (the original of which he kept hidden from public view until 1921 I believe). She says: "His paintings are fascinating, like something out of a dream or something. There's truth but no logic." I thought what was brilliant about that line was that Rose ends up following her 'truth' which defies all logic (intending to run off with a pauper and leaving behind her privileged position) and, in the eyes of Cal, becomes one of those very whores who Picasso presents...

It bothers me that Miss Trudy flashes her undergarments when she takes a side down the deck.

I really hated they made it sink. Like that happened! SAD!

Jack Dawson was certainly no Picasso...

I hate that little sound old Rose makes when she throws the heart of the ocean into the ocean. Other than that..love the movie.

In one of the making offs, James Cameron says his original version of the movie featured the crew after the heart of the ocean more prominently, and the Titanic and its people were a mere backdrop. But after making a rough version, he realized no one cared about the current characters. Only the Titanic mattered. Then he cut all the storylines revolving around Bill Paxton and the rest of the gang and focused only on the past.

Rose was cruel to her mother, to make think she had died. I know the mother was a terrible snob but she was trying to survive and afraid of them losing their position. I know many people find fault with the Jack character who has absolutely no neurosis or inner conflict, and that criticism is a valid one. If he had been an Irish passenger played by Colin Farrell perhaps, maybe he would have gotten a much needed 'edge'. It is undeniably Kate Winslet who carries this epic film on her shoulders and creates a complex character who is sometimes very hard to understand, just like Vivien's performance in GWTW.

Interesting Fact: the Kathy Bates role of the Unsinkable Molly Brown was originally offered and accepted by the polarizing DL Diva Reba McEntire. Wonder how that would of turned out?

That whole sequence with Rose wading through water, chopping the chain binding Jack, then they both wade through more water. That water would have killed them very soon. It was near freezing.

Sorry, I know this is off-topic, but I love this theory that Titanic is a prequel to Terminator:

R8 I hate her little "Whoops!" Noise too!

Rose is reunited in the afterlife with a guy she knew two days. She gave zero fucks for the father of her children whom she was married to for decades.

I hated the scene when Cal goes postal, takes his valet's pistol and starts shooting at Jack and Rose!! It totally dragged the movie down, it was so ridiculous.

r14, the ending is NOT the afterlife though. The ending is the passage between life and death. If you pay attention, Rose's spirit breaks from her body and she sees herself as the young Rose, then her spirit looks up at the dome, fades out to white and she dies. There is no 'Titanic heaven'... only idiots who don't have a brain in their head think that.

Cal was such a big sissy, it never convinced me he was that crazy about Rose's pussy.

I'm guessing most of you have seen this, but here's the original ending of the film. Rose gives Bill Paxton and friends a little spiel about the real treasure being life, and then she chucks the necklace in the ocean.

Every one sees the ending differently... to me, Rose dies and her spirit returns to the Titanic, where everyone is there, young and beautiful and whole again

r18, that was truly dreadful. It would have wrecked the film profoundly if it had been kept. Bill Paxton would have been the iceberg that destroyed a beautiful thing.

This is my favourite scene in the film. I love the acting. I love how the film is so focused on Rose's emotions, a throwback to the great women's pictures of classic Hollywood. I'm actually shocked James Cameron wrote this film... he's perceived as the guy's guy director. It just goes to show how we shouldn't box people into categories. Just because Cameron is a regular 'bloke', he has an ingrained feminist sensibility and yet his men are never portrayed as weak in order to prop up the women. I think that's why his movies have really been so phenomenally popular even though I wouldn't say he's much of a writer and is no intellectual, on an instinctual level, he has uncanny insight.

The tragedy of this film is that the idiot James Cameron did not ask Olivia deHavilland to play Old Rose instead of that unknown piece of wood, Gloria Stuart. He laughably tried to pawn her off as some long ago and retired gem of the silver screen but no one knew who the hell she was even when she was in pictures in the 30s. And it would have been far more believable had Kate Winslet aged into the elegant Livvy rather than that common white trash. And since Titanic was touted as the GWTW of the latter 20th Century, it would have been a cinematic full circle moment if deHavilland was a part of it. Not to mention that she would have certainly won the Supporting Actress Oscar that Stuart embarrassingly lost. A truly missed opportunity.

I would have adored Olivia as Old Rose, what an amazing book-end to GWTW it would have been!

Katharine Hepburn should have played Old Rose.

R18 as much as it pisses me off she threw it, regardless of the old insurance claim or the long search: the necklace was rightfully hers to do as she pleased with it.

There was more than enough room on that floating board to share with Jack.

It irritates me that Jack was actually permitted to associate with the First Class passengers. Rose tossing the necklace in the ocean is more believable.

I dissent. I love Gloria Stuart in this, and two great Golden Age directors(John Ford and James Whale) thought she was good enough to use in their films.

How did Rose survive with no money or job skills?

James Cameron believing he invented ice bergs and that he built the original Titanic all by himself really pisses me off.

[quote]How did Rose survive with no money or job skills?

turning tricks

r29, if you remember, Rose was portrayed in the movie as a mathematical genius ("Forgive me Mr Andrews, I did this sum in my head and it seems that there are not enough lifeboats for everyone aboard!") She also follows Andrews' insane directions to the bowels of the ship in order to rescue Jack, committing it all to memory. Trust me, with that kind of intelligence, i'm sure she did fine out there in the big bad world.

Cameron first offered old Rose to Fay Wray . She turned it down. He knew de Havilland was to frail even to consider extended filming on the ocean.

If Bette Davis had lived to 100, I wonder if she would have done it. There is a certain resemblance between the young Bette and kate winslet.

Such a large girl & with a face the size of a Buick !

Real Jack Dawson was a prostitute

Jack's death. I liked Jack a lot more than Rose.

" (TITANIC) was the ship of dreams ............ but to me, it was a slave ship "

Good, now we've the got the blacks cheering for Rose.

R38 that line wouldn't fly in 2017. Cultural Misappropriation

I hate it every time Bill Paxton comes on screen during the "modern day" scenes. I just can't pretend this guy deserves to be on screen and working in the film industry. He is an absolute zero as an actor.

The studio wanted Paltrow and McConaughey to play Rose and Jack. Cameron insisted on Leo and Kate because he wanted the leads to be very young.

You no longer have to worry abouy that, R40. He is dead.

(R42) Ah shucks, I didn't know he died. Uh, well, maybe he wasn't such a bad actor.

[quote]Uh, well, maybe he wasn't such a bad actor.

lol.

Leo is all wrong. I can't imagine that slip of a thing surviving in Bohemian Paris. And Kate is too common. The studio was right and it would have been better with Matt and Goop.

R45 yeah, he seems like he would of been like an Oklahoma Frat Boy backpacking and scrounging Paris for Pussy.

Colin Farrell... that would've been hot!

I did not like Leo Di Caprio in his role as "Jack."

Leonardo Di did seem a big awkward at times in Titanic. Not sure about Matthew McConaughey in this role either, maybe DiCaprio was a slightly better choice. That being said, I could see MMc doing a much better job as Howard Hughes in the Aviator. I didn't buy LDi's Texas accent for one minute.

If that insufferable twat Paltrow had been cast as Rose then most of the audience would've been praying that she would not make it.

Hiya Mr. Cameron, I am your 'Rose'

OP, it was paste. The real one was in the vault.

Glad I never saw it. Sounds unbearably treacly.

Wait a minute, wait a minute -

The ship SINKS?!

Just great, R1 - THANKS FOR RUINING THE ENDING!

Anyone else notice that the film is like a mixture of Pretty Woman (roles reversed), Gone With The Wind and The Poseidon Adventure? With scenes stolen from PW-the confusion over the forks, etc. at dinner, from GWTW-the corset scene and many others.

I can't fucking stand that Jack and Rose couldn't say more than two lines of dialogue without calling each other by their names. 'Jack! Rose! Jack! Rose! Jack! Rose!' FFS, we know your names and don't need to be reminded every 2-3 minutes like Alzheimer's patients!

I hate that people think this is some sort of great romance.

Well if they'd both lived and gotten married they would have ended up hating each other - Rose would hate being poor and would resent Jack for failing to support her or the inevitable kids, and Jack would have resented the loss of his freedom. Rose made something of her life after he died, he inspired her to to all sorts of wonderful things she would never have been able to do if she'd stuck with him.

Rose was literally better off without him.

The scene that bothers me is after they fuck inside the automobile and run up on deck. They're playing grab ass and generally making a scene which distracts the lookouts in the crow's nest. He watches them and then looks back to the horizon where he spots the iceberg, says "Blimey!" then promptly alerts the bridge. Too late, the ship is doomed.

The way I see it, Jack and Rose were responsible for the sinking due to their shenanigans.

I hated the fraus who thought 'Jack' was real all got girl crushes on the character and went multiple times to see the movie. They were just old ladies crushing on Leo. And I can suspend belief that the class crossed lovers would never have even talked in real life. That's what vacations are for: to do stuff you know you would never do in real life. And in real life Rose would have to sell that necklace to survive. But sitting in the break room hearing all these women discuss it like it was real made me want to vomit my lunch.

my pussy is deep as the ocean.

"if you remember, Rose was portrayed in the movie as a mathematical genius ("Forgive me Mr Andrews, I did this sum in my head and it seems that there are not enough lifeboats for everyone aboard!") She also follows Andrews' insane directions to the bowels of the ship in order to rescue Jack, committing it all to memory. Trust me, with that kind of intelligence, i'm sure she did fine out there in the big bad world."

Be able to do a "sum in your head" does not constitute mathematical genius." Nor does remembering directions someone gives me indication of any superior intelligence. In fact, Rose behaves quite stupidly throughout the entire movie; she's rude (tells her mother to shut up), vulgar (spits in her fiancé's face, gives his assistant the finger), strips naked for a guy she barely knows, and instead of just telling her fiancé she won't marry him and doesn't want to live the life of a rich married matron she tries to jump off the ship. She is one crazy bitch. And she's stupid to the end of her life, throwing the huge diamond into the ocean (WHY did she do that? Why did she hold onto the diamond all those years if it meant nothing to her in the first place?) . No, Rose didn't have much in the way of brains. Which is why the only way she could have supported herself after surviving the Titanic (she had only the clothes on her back) would have been prostitution. That seems like the just kind of thing crazy Rose would have done.

We hate that a hot man drowned and an icky smelly stinkfish lived!

Erna, I wish that you'd drown. In elephant urine!

Leo and Kate read as a fag/hag pairing, rather than a straight couple.

I hate that Bette Davis wasn't still alive to play Old Rose. That would have been fantastic!

I haven't seen the movie in a long time, but I always wondered how it would play if you removed the contemporary-era framing. It would cut down the running time and leave some sense of jeopardy that Rose might also die.

[quote]Katharine Hepburn should have played Old Rose.

I believe Katharine Hepburn was non compos mentis by the time Titanic was made. She was no longer seen in public.

[quote]There was more than enough room on that floating board to share with Jack.

Not with Kate Winslet's fat ass!

[quote]If Bette Davis had lived to 100, I wonder if she would have done it.

Bette Davis would've arrived at the crack of dawn for the first table-read, her script already scribbled with notes, pacing the parking lot and chain-smoking waiting for Cameron to arrive.

It was the first movie after they figured out the trick to riches wasn't getting a lot of people to see a film, just the same bunch of noobs watching the film over and over and over and over again

No the duo had to be very young because Rose had to be of age but young enough to still be alive in 1998. The modern scenes were fantastic. Those weren't CGI shots of the ship. Those were real. The most hostile and dangerous location shoot in the history of film. While everyone else was using CGI to make Robots move and dinosaurs run Cameron used it for an evocative and stunning edit, the bow of the ship going from 1912 to modern age.

Cameron is an action director but his lead characters and heroes have mostly been women. Strong strong, women. Sarah Connor, Ripley, That Bitch in the Abyss etc. He's more of a feminist director than his ex-wife Kathryn Bigelow.

Even though he was slightly older than Winslet, DiCaprio just looked too babyfaced next to her as she has a mature face. Colin Farrell would have been a better match physically and the Irish accent would've underscored exactly why he was so unacceptable to the mother and to the first class diners. But then they would need to recast the dark-haired fiancé, no big deal, Julian Sands would've worked.

LOVE the idea of Olivia DeH as old Rose, that voice. She would've realistically sounded like an old Rose as well as being a better actor. The line reading, Wasn't I a pip? always sounded off to me.

Actually I didn't care for the actress who played the mother either. She didn't look like she came from money or breeding. Maybe that was intentional as she was the last of the played-out line?

[Quote] That Bitch in the Abyss

Lol

That diamond is so hideous. I think everyone should be happy it gets thrown to the bottom of the sea. Who would want a giant heart cut diamond?

[quote]Leo and Kate read as a fag/hag pairing, rather than a straight couple.

Yes. I can imagine young Jack selling his hole around old gay Paris.

LOL r75, wouldn't be surprised. A lot of comments from young girls now who weren't even born when Titanic came out say that they would choose Cal over Jack because he had money.

Was Colin Farrel a "name" at the time Titanic was made? I can't remember him being known back then, but maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

Leo went from being a pudgy faced kid who looked like he should be in a boy band to a fat Silesian peasant. Tragic.

Good point r77. Titanic came out in 1997. I first heard about Colin Farrell in Tigerland, 2000.

Tom Hardy was completely unknown at the time, but if he had been known, he would've made a good Jack. He was 19 or 20 and just the right type.

This movie was too long and they escaped death way too many times. I was actually glad when Jack finally died. Boring!

R14/R16/R19, I saw it as Rose gets to have the afterlife with Jack she was denied in real life. She had a long happy life with her husband and children, why does she need to relive it?

R9, if Rose's mother knew she was alive and still refusing to marry whatshisface, she would have had Rose locked up as hysterical or something like that until she succumbed. I like the idea of Rose sending her a note along the lines of "I'm alive, I'm fine, fine, don't bother trying to find me." If I remember right she changes her name to Rose Dawson, which was as much for self-protection as to honor Jack.

And Winslet looked perfect for the role. Skinny Paltrow would have looked like a victim of consumption. That straight-line no curve look didn't become popular until the flappers.

[quote]Tom Hardy was completely unknown at the time, but if he had been known, he would've made a good Jack. He was 19 or 20 and just the right type.

Unlike Leo he didn't have the heartthrob appeal, just too awkward looking. He grew into his features.

Leo worked because even though he was basically upturning Rose's life, he looked babyfaced and thus "safe." A Colin or Tom would have seemed too sexual and threatening and you'd never believe Rose would go off with him alone or that any of the first class passengers would tolerate him for a second.

I didn't really buy Jack and Rose as lovers. I think it would have been more inventive if they had merely become best friends and she had run off with him intending to be his cohort, so to speak, as opposed to girlfriend or wife. I know that totally goes against the romantic conventions but the way Winslet played the role, I really don't think Rose had romance on her mind... she was more concerned with what her life was going to be like a privileged wife and she seemed more like a Vera Brittain type who was incredibly frustrated that she was being denied the chance to get an education and pursue her intellectual curiosities. What intrigued me about the relationship with Jack (despite the basic screenplay) is that she connects with him on an artistic level initially as opposed to a romantic one, they discuss ideas and are very much kindred spirits in their ability to actually have a conversation... something Rose had been denied in her upper class society. So the romance part I think belittles what these characters initially were to each other and makes Rose look like a flighty fool. If she had intended to run off with Jack just to be his cohort (as in, they weren't going to become financially interdependent), I would have understood it more.

But r84, I think Jack Dawson was in dire need of that 'dark edge' in order to flesh him out more as a character. Of course Colin Farrell in the role would have been an overtly offensive presence to Rose's upper class set but I still think the movie could have pulled it off and accentuated the provocation of Jack's presence just through Farrell bringing a real sexual energy to the role. It's something that DH Lawrence would have done for sure if he'd written Titanic (and he was the visionary writer of that whole era, remember)... the upper class girl and her 'bit of rough'... we see it in Lady Chatterly's Lover, for instance. As for Farrell making Jack threatening, I think that was needed to... remember there's a point in the film where Rose isn't sure if Jack tried to steal the necklace. I love the idea of making Jack a more ambiguous and sexual character, it ups the stakes in terms of the contrast with Cal (who comes off more and more like a cartoon villain as the film progresses). Finally, i found DiCaprio a highly frustrating presence in the movie because he obviously did no research for the role and basically plays a young man of the late 20th century with his modern day lingo and 90s haircut. It really gets on my nerves... Farrell would have been authentic to the time period IMO.

[quote]Finally, i found DiCaprio a highly frustrating presence in the movie because he obviously did no research for the role and basically plays a young man of the late 20th century with his modern day lingo and 90s haircut.

It's unfair to should all of the blame on DiCaprio, when it was Cameron's intention not make it not feel like a period film. He gave composer James Horner the directive 'no violins' (which he of course ignored, but he read between the lines and integrated synths and contemporary techniques into the score) and temped much of the film with Enya songs.

*shoulder all of the blame

Yeah, Leo looking like a 90s kid instead of a 10s steerage passenger is all on Cameron. He definitely wanted to play up Leo as heartthrob, which is why he looks exactly the same as he did in Romeo and Juliet..

I hate that Jack could have fit on the raft if Rose wasn't so fat!

It's a shame about DiCaprio taking us out of the 1912 timeframe with his looks and manner because Winslet perfectly fits it with her larger body type (if the film had obeyed conventions of beauty for the late 90s period they would have made Rose thin as a rake). Winslet looks like a true Edwardian rose. One of those pretentious film directors, I think jaques Rivette, who did love to showcase his anorexic French actresses, referred to her as "slovenly", which infuriated me because she completely fit the standards of the era being portrayed.

Never saw the film. Anyone else?

The upper class dining scene with Leo in the borrowed clothes and winning everyone over was just too ludicrous and unrealistic. But you are right about babyfaced Leo being unthreatening and that was a big factor in the movie's popularity. Colin F would've taken it to a darker, more uneasy place and it would've made for a better film but maybe not as much of a blockbuster.

[quote]Interesting Fact: the Kathy Bates role of the Unsinkable Molly Brown was originally offered and accepted by the polarizing DL Diva Reba McEntire.

You're confused, hon. Reba was offered the musical "Unsinkable Molly Brown," not the movie Titanic,

I remember seeing it when it came out and the theater was full of 12 year old girls. Leo was just the right asexual, unthreatening type pre-pubescent girls love. Like boy banders.

R93, I think the scene worked to the extent that it showed most of the upper class were either barely tolerating him or regarded him as an amusing distraction. Of course Molly Brown liked him, but she wasn't "one of" them and you could tell they HAD to be nice to her because she was just as wealthy if not more so than they were.

I thought Cameron was going for that kind of sneering hypocrisy exposed in the Age of Innocence and I thought he pulled it off well. It was the scene among the lower class that I found too ludicrous--all the poor ethnic people of course having raunchy (but not too raunchy) fun. "Ooh look, they're so musical! And genuinely happy! They're so FREE in their poverty!"

I doubt Rose would have found poverty so freeing had she married Jack and had to watch their children being cold and hungry.

The boatsh gonna shink y'all. Better getsh inta one them little boatsh. C'mon! Giddy up!

Is that you Liza, pretending to be Reba?

Admittedly r96, I barely remember the dining room scene.

At some point Rose did marry but I don't remember (it's been years, decades! since I've seen the movie) what was said about the husband other than he didn't measure up to Jaaaack. She did a lot of adventurous things (shown in the photographs around the room), how did marriage and kids fit into that?

The modern day scenes are a chore to get through. Bill Paxton followed the cheese of Twister with this. His character wasn't interesting enough. I wasn't sure his motivation to find the diamond was for expedition or greed. I also didn't care for Stuart. She came across smug. Suzy Amis added nothing except to be there to get fucked by Cameron after shooting.

I agree an actor like Farrell would have added some edge and some sexual tension.

I also find Billy Zane's performance really over-the-top and it hasn't aged well.

The constant "Rose!" "Jack!" "Rose!" "Jack!" is tiresome.

I thought Frances Fisher did a great job. More deserving of a Best Supporting Actress nomination than Stuart.

This movie is one of my favorites but I think it's hilarious that when Rose dies at the end, she's reunited with a boy she knew for 3 days, 70 years earlier instead of her husband whom she was presumably with for most of her like. I know, it's a movie.

R69

Davis died 8 years before the film was made.

This film was out around the same time Diana died

r103 of course I know that! I was just responding to the other poster who would've like to see Davis in the role if she'd still been alive.

I hate that everyone spoke American English even though the majority of the Titanic's passengers were British.

I hate that scene when they're wading through the flooded corridors and the water is aqua, like in a swimming pool.

I hate that a first-class passenger goes slumming in third class. That never would have happened.

I hate it that, in an era before birth control and antibiotics, a well-bred upper class woman is taking her clothes off and having unprotected sex with a working class man she barely knows. Absolutely not believable.

I actually hate the whole movie and only saw it once, when it was on network TV and I didn't have to pay.

R94 Nope, Hon. It was the movie.

[quote]I hate it that, in an era before birth control and antibiotics, a well-bred upper class woman is taking her clothes off and having unprotected sex with a working class man she barely knows. Absolutely not believable.

We don't know if there was actual penetration.

r108, I was always interested in the sex scene because Jack seemed like he'd never had sex before when they showed them in post coital. He was trembling all over which freaked out Kate and she had to kind of take him in hand like he was her infant son, and not her lover. It was... weird to say the least. It made me think Jack had only had sex with men before this, because he seemed to be the female in the situation. It goes back to r75's point.

Rose looked a lot older than Jack even though Dicaprio is one year older than Winslet.

mostly those, the water in the hallways wouldve been ice cold, they'd just hit an ice berg. No way is anyone running around in that as long as they did.

I wish Kathy Bates had more scenes. She was wonderful as Molly Brown.

When she was in the lifeboat, and stood up and said "God Almighty" as the ship was sinking was a powerful moment. Just those two words and the expression of grief on her face really brought it home to you how horrific the whole thing was. That's ACTING, ladies and gentlemen.

While the sinking sequence is an impressive spectacle and no doubt the highlight of the film, it full of curious misfires. Like that cut-away of a man falling and rebounding off the propeller with a loud 'klang.' It's meant to be horrific but just seems comical.

it's

R111 I remember Leo and Kate saying (think on Oprah) that that water was very cold so their reactions to it would be genuine. Probably not ice water cold but pretty cold.

Also as a lesbian I was much more into Leo at the time than Kate. Think I wanted to be him more so than attracted to him. Now Kate is pretty much my #1.

#themoreyouknow

That definiton of the DiCaprio-Winslet pairing and love scenes as "it's as if a chihuahua is trying to mount a golden retriever" is pretty perfect. I love the movie but he looks like a kid and she looks like his young but experienced aunt.

I aso think it's pretty comical when they show all the adventurous things Rose had done in her life post-Titanic through the photos. Oh look she rode horses...flew planes....what else, cured cancer and climbed the Everest? It was such a Barbie moment.

Now Leo is actually dating Kate Winslet. He still looks good, she doesn't. I can't see this other than a bearding expedition.

I doubt they're dating...

Victor from Y&R still looks reasonably attractive in this

I thought that Cal's butler chasing them around the ship when it was sinking was silly.

The dialogue is beyond awful, Billy Zane was just laughable and only fraus and teenage girls could buy those two wanted to fuck each other. They came off as high school BFFs before the male realizes he likes pole. Neither one wanted to fuck the other. They wanted to go to the mall and hang out at the food court.

[quote]Now Leo is actually dating Kate Winslet.

Hahahaha!

[quote]I thought that Cal's butler chasing them around the ship when it was sinking was silly.

The David Warner character? He was Cal's valet and a former cop, and the chase took place before the sinking.

David Warner also played the romantic lead opposite Susan Saint James in the 1979 television movie, S.O.S. TItanic.

Agree, Billy Zane came off like some Snidely Whiplash cartoon character.

[quote]David Warner also played the romantic lead opposite Susan Saint James in the 1979 television movie, S.O.S. TItanic.

LOL this is something you would only see on DL.

R118 "Now Leo is actually dating Kate Winslet."

That's cute of you to try it, but even they aren't pretending to fake it. To their credit, they've never played up even the possibility of a romantic relationship, as desperate as Titanic fans still are to see it happen.

God, what a stupid movie. All poor Rose needed was a strong, lusty man, an "artist", to save her from the horrible fate of being a rich man's wife. Of course she couldn't just say "the wedding's off and I don't want to see you anymore." Oh no, she needed a real MAN to show her how much fun it is to be poor (all those happy, dancing poor people in third class!) and what it's like to really make love (gag). She needed a MAN to help her do that. And what a man! DiCaprio looks more like a girl than Winslet does and she appears to outweigh him by at least 20 pounds. She looks like she could beat him up with no trouble at all. What a ridiculous pairing. And women swooned over it! What dopes.

And they didn't have a man getting in the lifeboat in woman's clothes. I know of one man whose family believes he did.

I thought Kate W was married to some guy with a funny name.

I hate when Rose takes off her shoes to dance in her stockings.

RE106

Most Titanic passengers were Irish, not British - it's just that they were in the poor section. Which would have made Colin Farrell more convincing in the context of the day.

R132 Cameron chose Di Caprio and Winslet because they had both had Oscar noms (granted for little seen films). He was anxious to try to give his movie some patina of prestige. Farrell was just getting bit parts on British TV back then. He wouldn't even have got an audition.

[QUOTE]I thought that Cal's butler chasing them around the ship when it was sinking was silly.

There was a scene that didn't make the final cut. Remember when Cal went after them down the stairs shooting his pistol ? After the two fled through the partially sunken 1st class dining room, Cal stands there as his manservant slowly approaches and asks< "What could be possibly be funny ?" Cal tells him that the coat which he had placed on Rose had the blue diamond in a pocket. What was cut was that Cal then tells the manservant that if he can get the stone (by killing or not) that he can have it. There were also two scenes cut of Rose & Jack still being hunted by the manservant. I guess in the edit they finally came to obvious conclusion that 'enough was enough' !!

[QUOTE]Most Titanic passengers were Irish, not British - it's just that they were in the poor section. Which would have made Colin Farrell more convincing in the context of the day.

No stuff. Glamour and power in peril however is usually more interesting to the masses than blue collar, red neck or steerage classes in the same predicament.

[quote]No, Rose didn't have much in the way of brains.

Yeah, but quite big tits. Those were period pieces. Like great big mirror balls accompanied by a harpsichord. I mean, fantastic when you think about them.

Colin Farrell (or any grown up) would have been interesting. Might have made the relationship more intriguing... more like Rhett and Scarlett at the beginning, where he's baiting her, leading her. Rose and Jack as played (and physically) were more like playmates.

If River Phoenix had still been alive, maybe he would've been cast as Jack.

Longest franking three hours of my life. I actually started trying to read book at one point until my ex made me put it down :(

[quote]Rose and Jack as played (and physically) were more like playmates.

For the 14 year old girls who went back to see that movie 18 times...

R138, I don't see Phoenix accepting the role.

Most people went to see the movie once -- I myself enjoyed the wreckage footage and the scenes with the engines and other mechanics of the ship -- but the little girls who kept going back over and over and over again made it a box office hit.

I hated the fact that if you didn't care about the romance between those two, you were really left with nothing for most of the movie.

I disagree R143. One really smart thing the movie does is use the romance as a framework to tell the Titanic story. Rose and Jack traverse practically the whole ship before and after the sinking, so you see not only the whole ship but the different experiences of the different passengers. Conversations around them are going on that explain what's happening (Rose learns info from Mr. Andrews that no other passengers know and through Jack we're introduced to a number of historical characters) and they are there at the moment of impact with the iceberg. It's a great way to get all the background info to the audience so that they can fully appreciate what happens after.

Wow. A darker film with Farrell makes me cry for what could have been!

Other thoughts:

I thought it was cool that Frances Fisher And Suzy Amis looked alike. They were convincing as great grandmother and daughter.

Old Rose's line was, "Wasn't I a dish?" Not a "pip." I read somewhere the line was written as, "Wasn't I a hot number," and Stuart herself suggested "dish" instead.

If I had been Rose, I would have snuck into Officer Lighttoller's cabin. That guy was sexy.

[QUOTE]Rose and Jack as played (and physically) were more like playmates.

Good point. There's something very immature, boyish about Leo, even all of these years later. Winslet seemed TOUGH compared to him and looked like she could have eaten him for breakfast.

[QUOTE]I would have snuck into

sneaked dammit !!

R83, Tom Hardy "just too awkward looking"?

EVERYONE should look so awkward!

I was 20 years old when Titanic came out and I was far more interested in Hot Daddy Victor Garber and swarthy Billy Zane than I was in Dicaprio, whom I thought looked like a 14 year-old lesbian.

[QUOTE]Dicaprio, whom I thought looked like a 14 year-old lesbian.

"There's a gym teacher waiting to happen ......... "

There was nothing swoon worthy about Jack that would compel any girl of Rose's position to think "Gee, I think I'll give up marrying this immensely wealthy man so that I can bed this poor, starving artist and travel the world in steerage."

The only thing good about this movie was the special effects. The story and the dialogue were terrible.

Jack and Rose (Rose on the left, Jack's on the right)

If he gets to 100, he'll still look like a lttle boy.

R151, Rose was desperate enough to consider suicide before even meeting Jack. Plus because Jack dies, Rose never has to face the reality of what their lives would have actually looked like together. So she (and the audience) can project only the most perfect image onto them, because there is no harsh reality to challenge it.

r155 and Rose was only 17 remember. She had never experienced poverty but to her, escaping her social world which was totally oppressive at that time was like a freedom.

Annoying that the old lady brought all those picture frames and her goldfish (how did she not spill it) bowl on an expedition boat with presumably little room for that stuff.

Ok the other hand, the photo montage tells us that Rose wound up living a very full life full of experiences and adventures. Her tribute to Jack, I guess.

Colin Farrell would have been outstanding as Jack. I always remember these photos of Colin and Britney Spears which the press went wild over (yes, they were even photographed kissing!)... they felt like he was the bad boy corrupting America's sweetheart. That's the dynamic he would have brought to Titanic.

A ship geek friend of mine says Matt Damon and Mark Wahlberg both auditioned for the role of Jack. I can't find that anywhere...it can't be true...

So they knew each other only 2 days. Didn't see the movie, but that makes sense once I read it here. That doesn't seem like long enough as the basis for a life-long grand passion (if that's what Rose had).

r160, remember the world that Rose came from. She would have had zero interaction with poor people (except her hired staff). The upper class Edwardian world of strict etiquette, formality and emotional repression had left Rose completely suicidal. She had provocative ideas in a world where women were still restricted from the vote or getting an education. Meeting Jack was like she was reawakened... he had no inhibitions. It makes sense she would fall in love, not necessarily with Jack for himself, but for what he represented to her... the freedom from her society which she had never knew.

Makes sense. Thanks.

Tom Cruise wanted the role, but he demanded too much money. That could have been interesting--remember, this was still-good-actor Tom Cruise who was not so knee deep in Scientology. And he would have been coming in off of Interview with the Vampire.

Then again, imagine THAT ego clash between Cruise and Cameron on set. Holy shit.

Tom Cruise was WAY too old to play Jack. God, how delusional that he thought he was right for the part.

There's no reason Jack had to be as young as Rose. Rose had to be young because she's unmarried, but Jack absolutely could have been older.

So much deep thinking over a movie made to appeal to 14 year old girls.

r165 Tom Cruise was mid-30s at the time. That was still much too old for Jack.

Where did Rose get her "wild" ideas? Certainly not her mother. Her father, who gambled away their fortune?

Could he have "passed" for younger?

It really is too bad that Colin Farrell wasn't well-known at the time, I agree he would've been a great Jack.

This always reminded me of Rhett and Scarlett on the staircase where he flips her around and says 'This is one night you're not turning me out' and then carries her upstairs. Titanic is really the latter day GWTW.... I think Cameron had that intention, consciously.

[QUOTE] Plus because Jack dies, Rose never has to face the reality of what their lives would have actually looked like together.

Hope this helps !!

Yes, Jack and Rose met and their affair lasted what, 2 days. So what. So did Romeo and Juliet, still theirs is the most celebrated love story of all time.

If you've ever travelled by ship, these things are not uncommon. You're stuck in an environment with people for weeks or even days, you develop intense relationships with people.

Exactly, R171! It was the latter day GWTW which is why it was ludicrous that Olivia deHavilland was not Old Rose!

Rose seemed very mentally unstable. She was extremely hard to like. In fact, she was one of the most unlikable romantic heroines in film history. She spits (spits in her fiance's face, for that matter), flips the bird, tells her mother to "shut up!", punches a guy in the face, cheats on her fiance with a guy she barely knows. Even as an old lady she's bitchy and irritating ("do you want to hear this or not?"). Rose was a cunt!

r176, she spits at Cal after he practically gloats about the lower classes dying in the sinking. All he placed value on were the survival of the rich. She only really turned on Cal at this moment and her mother's stupidity ("Will the lifeboats be seated according to CLASS?!!")

One of the best deleted scenes in the movie. Eric Braeden is really affecting here... I think people who are soap fans especially will tear up LOL

lol. R176 has to be a troll ... missing the entire point of the movie.

So when any of you rewatch it, do you skip the slow sinking hour? I do. I go straight to the end. It was well done, but I can't rewatch it whereas the class/romance stuff is great for multiple viewings.

LOl, R179 has to be an idiot. "The Titanic" had a "point?" What "point" could that be? It was just a shitty, hackneyed love story with the backdrop being an actual tragic event. So...what's the point?

R179 was once upon a time a 12 year old girl who saw Titanic in theaters 40 times and thinks Leo Di Caprio is a straight man who just hasn't met Miss Right (her) yet.

Another scene that should have been kept in. The goddess descending to the realm of the dirty mortals.

I cannot fucking BELIEVE that Tom Cruise was ever considered for this role. He can't act but his intense stare does work in some roles, but it would have been the worst possible way to approach the role of Jack. He was a lot older than Winslet, and well, it would have resulted in a film about a creepy older guy trying to lure a teenaged girl away from a stable marriage. Okay, she wouldn't be happy with Cal, but at least she wouldn't be living a rackety live with someone who's poor and slightly crazy.

Kate Winslet is one of those people who looks better with a little weight on, which can't have helped her career in the US. She's naturally short and a bit chunky, and when she fills out a little she has some nice curves, and when she's at her thinnest her broad bones, short neck, and strong jaw leave her looking solid in a slightly mannish way.

Being an actress has got to suck in a lot of ways.

Tom Cruise as Jack is obvious bullshit. He already played that exact same role in the fantasy movie Legend anyway (directed by Ridley Scott) Tom playing the treasure hunter Brock Lovett instead of Bill Paxton might have worked, especially when he has that cheeseball line "AND THAT MAKES YOU MY NEW BEST FRIEND" and flashes the psycho Cruise smile.

r184, there were certain shots in the movie where Kate brought to mind a young Marilyn Monroe... I don't know if you see it. Some of Marilyn's shots when she was Norma Jean are very similar to Kate in this film.

These shots particularly. Kate definitely would have done a Marilyn biopic justice... not so much in her prime. But playing the Norma Jean years, yes.

R186, yes. Something about the apple cheeks and the chin. And they both are so expressive and "natural" and in the moment.

Uh... Kate Winslet is 5'8". She's not short.

As a Titanic afficianado from an early age, I liked the attention to detail of the ship. I hated the contrived story and the absolute I possibilities of a mixing of classes and trespass on areas of the ship that would be off limits such as the bow of the ship.

Crushed on Mr. Murdoch

I definitely agree with everybody else about Dicaprio being all wrong for the period setting. It was as if Jack was a sexually ambiguous hipster from 1996 who somehow time-traveled to 1912. Everything about him was much too modern for the setting.

Jeeze, I can't believe you guys are going on about how Leo was out of place because he was too modern. The sinking of the Titanic fell at a time when that Victorian/Edwardian culture was in it's last days. Yes Jack was modern, he was supposed to be modern, that was a large part of his appeal. THAT WAS THE POINT!

The most unbelievable thing about the movie is that Rose was supposed to be 17. I watched the movie and thought Rose was in her mid twenties.

r193 that wasn't how people talked or acted back then.

I didn't know that Gwyneth was up for the part, good thing she didn't get it. The big part of Roses's character that audiences responded to was Rose's warmth and likability, two thing Gwyneth has never been able to project. The audience would've been cheering for her to go overboard.

r196, and also the fact that Kate looked like an everywoman and was not a stick thin waif... in other words, Kate represented the audience and their fantasy that they could become lovers with the gorgeous Leonardo. That's why they went back over and over and over again, because Rose's story was a projection of themselves, especially about how dissatisfied and out of touch she felt.

I agree with everything you said about the romance being necessary r144, it's just that DiCaprio was wrong for the part but right for the movie's box office. Actually my favorite bit of casting was Victor Garber. I love his scene with Winslett in the lounge where he corrects the time on the clock.

If Colin Farrell had been cast as Jack do you think the movie would have done as well? People may have had trouble understand the Irish brogue if regarded him as too low-class. The thing about DiCaprio is he always looked fresh and chipper, so even though he was playing an artist who lived in poverty, the illusion he created was of a very clean and agreeable person. Farrell as Jack might have emphasised the 'dirty' side of poverty... I don't know, maybe some people would have found the character more of a turn on in that regard in the sense of him seducing Rose... it's very Lady Chatterly's Lover, isn't it?

Another person who hated the old cunt. She should've been thrown over board.

True r197. The way Kate looked had a lot to do with the movie's popularity and why girls went back to see it multiple times If stick-thin, uppity blonde, totally unrelatable to 99% of the population Gwyneth had played Rose, the movie wouldn't have been anywhere near as popular.

Farrell is way sexier than DiCaprio. Imagine Farrell doing this scene with Kate down in the Boiler Room. It's not quite the same with the androgynous Leo, who makes Kate look like a butch lesbian next to him. Farrell would have had all of us masturbating in the movie theater

As has been said upthread, Colin Farrell was basically unknown in '96 and never would've gotten an audition. Too bad, I agree he would've been great in the role.

Yeah Colin Farrell would have been great as a Wisconsin farm boy with artistic talent returning home after a year away. That would have worked. Sure, that's the ticket.

How did moneyless Rose survive? She had the necklace which was on a string of quarter karat diamonds. Hock a few of the diamonds . Hang out with some bohemians.

r204, Jack would have been transformed into an Irish passenger going to America for a new life. It doesnt take a genius to tinker with the script and by the way, there are no reports of poor Americans returning home on the actual ship.

Fuck off! You don't have the entire victim list memorized. Who the fuck do you think you are kidding?

Rosa/ Rhoda Abbott was returning to America with her sons. Her sons were American and they were not well off. They were third class passengers.

So stuff it!

There must be a Colin Farrell troll. Farrell was never in the running. He hadn't progressed beyond bit parts on British TV at that time. Cameron tested, in addition to Di Caprio and McConaughey, Chris O'Donnell, Stephen Dorff and Christian Bale. McConaughey tested with both Goop and Winslet. Cameron told an interviewer that McConaughey had turned the role down but McConaughey said he was never offered the role. Bale threw hissy fits about not getting the role but he was never seriously in contention. Bale can't do romantic.

[quote]There must be a Colin Farrell troll. Farrell was never in the running. He hadn't progressed beyond bit parts on British TV at that time.

That has been stated repeatedly in this thread. Colin Farrell is being talked about as a "what if he was well-known at the time" scenario.

The "love story" was the worst part of the movie. Totally miscast actors as the "lovers" and totally unoriginal and done to death (poor boy falls in love with rich girl).

I can't stand DiCaprio. I felt such an affinity with Rose's mother in the movie. The script had it right... he was like an insect.

Rose's mother always reminds me of Tilda Swinton.

Am I the only one annoyed at how casually Rose strolls around the deck in short sleeves as an iceberg scrapes the ship? Wouldn't she at least be shivering?

Everybody fawned over DiCaprio's so called 'beauty' like Kate couldn't compare. I don't get it. I mean just look at this girl. Kate, apart from being totally gorgeous in the film is the heart and soul of the movie and yet DiCaprio is the one who became the iconic part of it... why?

Lots were fawning over Kate.

"you jump I jump remember" - fucking infantile dialogue

"I don't get it. I mean just look at this girl. Kate, apart from being totally gorgeous in the film is the heart and soul of the movie and yet DiCaprio is the one who became the iconic part of it... why?"

This movie had a "heart and soul?" You must be one of its swooning fangurls. It was a big budget special effects movie with a dumb love story plot and terrible dialogue. No "heart and soul" to be found in THIS piece of movie tripe.

Ewan McGregor would have been good as Jack.

Kate Winslet gives an Oscar worthy performance in my opinion. Rose fascinates me.

Whoever said that all the passengers should have had English accents - no! The Titanic and other big liners from that period catered to punch wealthy, American born robber barons and their families. There were British passengers aboard of course, but Americans with means made up the bulk of first class passengers..

I was predisposed to hate the movie because of all the hype about Cameron recreating all the authentic little details. It's a stack of plates crashing to the floor, I don't give a fuck that he reopened the original clay pits and had the White Star logo painted by genuine orphans from the Belfast slums using lead paint that was sure to kill them. A little of that nonsense goes a long way.

Night to Remember was a far better movie. They used an office building on the backlot to serve as their Titanic, and to show the ship was sinking they tilted the damned camera and told the actors to lean a little.

A Night to Remember was too formal, in that really irritating British sense. Even during the actual sinking scenes, I didn't get a sense of panic.

Bump.

I've never watched this film and until they have a version with Leo totally edited out, it's unlikely I ever shall. I can't abide that guy's face. I'll just stick with Barbara Stanwyck.

[quote] they show all the adventurous things Rose had done in her life post-Titanic through the photos. Oh look she rode horses...flew planes....what else, cured cancer and climbed the Everest? It was such a Barbie moment.

Even with all that, I expect she missed out on the big moment of life.

This movie has been playing non stop only reviled to Dirty Dancing. I thought it was mediocre when it first came out and still do. The special effects were great though. I actually thought the romance was cheesy and detracted from the epic catastrophe of the ship sinking.

Rivaled^

If the film were made today JLaw would be cast as Rose. Who would play Jack?

It's entertaining as a historical drama, but really sucks as a love story. I mean, those two had no future together, if they'd both lived and run off together, it'd be less than a year before they hated each other - she'd have hated being poor and being dependent of a man who met every possible definition of "shiftless", and he'd have hated being tied down by a wife and the inevitable baby.

In a great love story, you want them to end up together, but here - she's literally better off without him.

[quote]a well-bred upper class woman is taking her clothes off and having unprotected sex with a working class man she barely knows

So Cameron captured the leitmotif of DL's id?

The movie had some unlikely scenes, for sure. The worst was when Rose is learning how to spit. Who thought that up? Sheesh!

Pfffft! Who cares? I’d rather watch Lifeboat.

What pisses me off about “Titanic” is its afterthought script with the kind of horrid dialogue you’d get in a 20 minute IMAX spectacular. Also, that Victor Garber was thrown into this mess.

[quote] It really pisses me off when that old bitch throws the fucking necklace in the ocean!

Why? Do you wish you could have worn it?

Okay, it pissed me off that this hundred-year-old woman threw away this gem worth millions, instead of giving it to her heirs. I mean, who wouldn't like a surprise inheritance, the chance to try on the gem once each and then sell it for a fortune that would be divided among her descendants... after grandma's elder care was paid for?

Okay, obviously Old Rose isn't poor, her place is nice and she has an attendant, but being old and frail is expensive as hell and her family's on the hook for anything she can't pay for herself. So yeah, it pissed me off that she threw away a fortune, when the circumstances actually gave her and her family a practical use for a small fortune.

Why exactly did she throw it? I mean sending it back the sea doesn't make sense because Cal survived and accidentally left in his coat which he gave to Rose to wear. A friend thought it showed that she made it on her own terms and didn't have to rely on anything from Cal. That makes no sense either honestly, because what's the point of throwing it back 60 years later. I guess it was just done for melodramatic purposes.

I wonder when they'll make a remake, you know it's coming.

Olivia deHavilland as Old Rose cold have made that moment work instead of the inexecrably wooden Gloria Stuart.

Saw it on the big screen for the first time this week. I can understand why tweens got so hot for Leo

Good point, R1. I honestly never thought of it that way.

Meh, R230. The script is clunky and awful at parts, but who cares? It makes up for it in every other way.

Rose got off that ship with pockets full of cash! Cals stuffed his coat with the diamond and at least 3-4 stacks of $20 bills. She found it while gazing up at the Statue of liberty. Why she didn't feel up her coat during the last 3 days of the journey is the real mystery.

Think how far a single $20 would go in 1912. Each wad probably equaled $1000 so it's safe to say that she left with $3-4k. Based on the US inflation calculator $4,000 is equal to just over $100k today. That's more than enough to get yourself settled. A girl like Rose wouldn't have been single for very long.

It's still shitty how her mother likely ended up. I hate that she couldn't be bothered to keep up with her, but I imagine she booked it to California ASAP leaving her mother to become a seamstress. God knows what she did after she became to old to work. Cal was hot and rich. Her mother wanted to keep them in luxury, her only fault was having one child instead of a second to fall back on. Rose really was a selfish teenager like her mother said.

The red hair on Rose was too harsh.

R238 Rose's mom definitely got a raw deal.

The gunfight or whatever it was. Just plain useless and idiotic.

Yeah, what became of Rose's mother?

Probably spent the rest of her life being someone's live-in poor relation, or married and old man who left the bulk of his money to his kids after she cared for him in his old age. While Rose lived it up and threw a fortune in jewels into the fucking ocean.

Damn, Rose was kind of a cunt.

Yes, her mother did nothing wrong. Even my young gay self, 8 years old, could somewhat understand the plight of woman. Possibly because I had to watch my single mother struggle while my father went off to live the bachelor life, children be damned. So that little speech about woman only having hard choices in 1912 rang very true. Rose never seemed to have learned a damn thing because she throws $100 million into the ocean, fuck her granddaughter. I guess she's just one of those woman hating females.

I found the whole second part sexist in that Rose on her own was really tough and courageous, but as soon as she was reunited with Jack, she became a whiny little girl who let him make all the decisions. And I agree with the poster who said that the movie doesn't really work if you don't care for the love story. Of course the sinking itself is impressive and terrifying to witness, but the film relies on the love story as a vehicle to make you appreciate the full tragedy of Titanic.

Cal's eyebrows were very distracting, like 2 black caterpillars on his forehead.

I actually think that the screenplay for that cheesy 1979 TV movie, S. O. S. TITANIC, was superior to James Cameron’s florid and vulgar script. It wasn’t much better than the one for that wretched 1996 two part television miniseries with Marlin Henner and Tim Curry. Now the one was equally bad - especially the scene where Tim Curry’s character rapes the Danish immigrant girl - right before the ship hits the iceberg...I’m guessing that it was supposed to be symbolic...two virgins violated by nature, or something stupid like that. I also hated the scene where the crewman tells Molly Brown to shut up...that is NOT what happened. When he yelled at her, she threatened to throw him overboard.

The Julian Fellowes 2012 miniseries was also bad, wretchedly so. A NIGHT TO REMEMBER is still , for me, the definitive version of the disaster. I also have a soft spot for the Barbara Stanwyck/Clifton Webb version, but it was inaccurate as well. But the dialogue sizzled.

[quote]God knows what she did after she became to old to work.

Oh, dear!

Yes, the mother was right, in 1912 women only had hard options.

Well, all the legal options were hard, anyway. The mother didnt consider the option of committing grand larceny and faking one's death. I wonder if Old Rose had any other major crimes on her conscience?

Is there another major film that bears scrutiny as poorly?

As others have said, Titanic is a classic compared to Avatar. 22 years later, Titanic has pop culture impact. Avatar couldn't last 22 months.