Samuel L Jackson is NOT happy that Black british actors are starting to steal all the American black roles.

American actors are going to have to learn to act if they're to compete with British or Australian actors who've studied and trained for years, paying their dues in love plays,voice and tv ads, short and Indy films.

If they are better actors, then tough shit.

Americans are less racist against Blacks with accents. OTOH if you go to Europe, UK, etc they treat American Blacks like royalty.

It's the same trend you are seeing with white actors really.

The amount of American characters being played by Brits (and other foreigners) is staggeringly high right now.

I remember that kid from Riverdale mentioning when he was at his audition he was shocked that not a single other guy he met was American either.

We've long discussed tis problem on DL -- why did Sam take so long?

Those actors exist, R1. We have excellent acting schools here -- both undergrad and grad. We have people with extensive training on the stage and in independent film. And let's be clear...many of these Brits, Australians and Canadians they are casting are young with little to no training.

What we have is a Hollywood industry that covets the outsider. Every agent and talent scout wants that "special" something. The grass is always greener.

It's not just actors. It's all filmmakers and screenwriters as well. One of the most disheartening things to hear when I was in film school (and I went to one of the best) was that film/TV industry people didn't really care. They didn't want to watch our short films...or read our scripts...or even meet with us. They basically told us to call them when we had a film in Sundance.

They were instead spending their time scouting YouTube for shitty homemade music videos to find "real and authentic" talent. They were also looking at Brazil as the next big thing. For no real reason...it was just the thing to do. The next year it was Africa. Then Scandinavia. These were the people they were signing. It had nothing to do with talent.

Look at TV. Playwrights are not automatically better TV writers. But you could never tell an agent or TV exec that. They're pulling shitty Chicago storefront playwrights to come write on TV shows...while refusing to read or even meet with people with film/TV training. If you want to be a screenwriter or TV writer...you are better off being a playwright. Or a novelist. Or a journalist. People will actually read your work.

This is all about Hollywood's dysfunction.

Americans that want to act think that if they can pose well for a camera they can get the right attitude and pull off a role. And if Americans are being honest so many of our A list actors aren't even that good when stacked against Brits. Part of the blame needs to go to the casting directors and producers who in the 21 century have tended to choosing actors for their look rather than acting ability. So many pretty empty people in front of the lens.

But if any of you want to see some good to great acting from Black actors check out Queen Sugar (OWN, Amazon/Itunes) who has a stunning young man named Kofi Siriboe, if you love dark chocolate then you'll love drinking up every inch of this guy. Despite the exotic name he was born and raised in Los Angeles.

Also check out Underground (WGN America, Amazon/iTunes), a cast full of good to great American actors Black and White. Both shows are great dramas and unfortunately as with many Black shows struggle is central, like in real life. Great storytelling though.

[quote]This is all about Hollywood's dysfunction.

And these sorts took over the Democratic Party, and now we're stuck with Trump.

At least he isn't blaming us white folks.. Is this technically a racial thing then?

He should be complaining instead that Alison Williams is starting to steal all the American white female roles.

r6 delusional

In the late 1930s through the 1940s plenty of film & stage actors felt the same way since so many British actors came over to the U.S. because of WWII. Of course they didn't whine about it publicly.

R11...Oooh...good one! You got me.

Jackson can continue shilling in that banks TV commercials & STFU.

[quote] OTOH if you go to Europe, UK, etc they treat American Blacks like royalty.

Once maybe but not anymore. Started to shift in the 90s. Europeans dislike all Americans and make no exception for black Americans, this is particularly true in the U.K., Germany and France.

It's not just blacks. It's everyone and it's stupid. Their American accents are TERRIBLE and have no genuine authentic emotion. I said GENUINE AND AUTHENTIC. but this new generation doesn't know anything about that. And you are right R6. R11 unfortunately i think you are the delusional one sweetheart. Haha. Don't try it.

DL did discuss this regarding "Selma" when two African-American icons -- MLK and Coretta -- were played by Brits (Oleyowo and Carmen Ejogo). And again when the leads in "Loving" were played by Brits. It's deeper than Sam Jackson's commentary. In some small measure, and for whatever reason, white American audiences have an easier time with historical films that depict the shameful acts of white Americans when the black actors are foreign and/or mixed race.

Maybe Jackson should stop acting in foreign productions if he's so afraid of foreigners getting jobs abroad. Not that I don't understand him but Hollywood has from the start used foreign talent.

Allison Williams is so annoying.

British actors are chosen for the quality of their acting. They don't get the job because they blew someone or had a hit single or look drop dead gorgeous. You want to make the grade, Mr Jackson, you need to have talent and work hard. Pennies don't fall from heaven. They have to be earned. Lose the chip on your shoulder while you're at it.

I heard samuel jackson give an interview on NPR about ten years ago, maybe longer. It might have been on "Fresh Air" but I can't remember. The interview was at least 30 minutes and he was very articulate and has definitely had serious training.

R20 you GOT TO BE british. Lmao. Samuel L. Jackson can act the house down. Stop playing.

Actually the US turns hundreds of times as many actors as Britain because we have full drama departments in all the schools. Britain does not. So we have far more actors and actresses than they do. Why do Brits get roles? Because Brits in Hollywood discriminate against non-British people, so once you get one or two, you get more. And nobody sues them for it, as they should, since it is blatantly illegal.

I thought that whining about anything involving lack of black acting roles was my job ?

Beat me to it

The white Brits have been stealing roles from American actors for years. Now it's the black Brits. SAG should react.

Getting into my territory

I was just about to speak with my usual fierceness

[quote] white American audiences have an easier time with historical films that depict the shameful acts of white Americans when the black actors are foreign and/or mixed race.

I think it's reflected in nearly every genre -- the last two Star Wars films featured British lead actors.

On the other hand, how familiar are American audiences with these performers and where they're from?

So when Samuel Jackson says American actors came up through modeling or commercials or television, which is a tiny fraction, he is comparing it against Britain which takes its television and film talent from the stage. But American casting directors NEVER take their talent from American college drama departments, where there are more trained actors and actresses than exist in the rest of the world combined. So if you grow up to be the best stage actor in uni in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, or the UK, you have a good chance of breaking into filmed media, which then gives you a c.v. that will get you a job in America. Whereas in America if you are the best actor at your uni, it means nothing to people who cast commercials, television, and movies. You have to know someone or get lucky to get that first break, usually done from a general cattle call where no experience is required, and only then can you move on.

We have a giant talent pool, far larger than all the other English speaking countries combined, that just dies on the vine because nobody in Hollywood or Broadway taps it the way pro sports use a draft.

And that's something we really need, a mechanism for getting the top talent from colleges into Broadway and Hollywood.

We had it until you fools insisted on busting up the old studio system

I love this bullshit claim that every British/Australian-trained actor is practically Olivier.

No one has ever clamoured for a Sam Worthington performance or Liam Hemsworth.

It comes down to money. The foreigners are more desperate to be relevant in the states and work for less.

BTW, even within British acting circles, the complaint is that the ones who grew up privileged, get all of the parts. Poor British actors can't get work.

At least black Australian actors aren't starting to steall all the American black roles.

Per r34's comment, here's James McAvoy complaining in 2015 about the overwhelming "posh" actors dominating Britain:

[quote]Samuel L Jackson is NOT happy

Are 'they' ever truly happy ? I mean unless it's all about them, even then.

R32 R33 R34 Telling the truth and shaming the devil.

R36 he's not wrong. Britain has moved backwards in terms of social mobility.

r30 did you know that three (could be more) of the young main character parts in Game Of Thrones were cast right out of acting school? Sansa Stark, Arya Stark and the part of Daenarys Targaryen. Three huge roles in an international sensation of a show. Perhaps the Brits just trust the training in their arts schools more than we do in the States?

R15 Bullshit. Not all Europeans hate Americans. Sarkozy got elected President of France because e was so fucking pro American. Traditionally American Blacks were treated like gold in France as part of their anti-Americanism. However the new generation is not that Anglo or American phobic as you claim.

After the British colonization of the former "Palestine", it gives a large swath of Hollywood a thrill to underpay the descendants of their former masters.

The King David Hotel was only the start.

British filmmakers just gave Samuel L. Jackson an awesome role in Kingsman: The Secret Service!!!

Everything's okay if white actors are still allowed to play Asians.

R22 I'm Irish and I'll give credit where it's due. How many American actors are classically trained and can quote Shakespeare ad lib? They are on a different level to the majority of American actors. For example,that guy Timberlake, he sings(apparently), but he also gets a movie deal? Give me a fucking break. In the States it's more times about grabbing more market share by the use of someone who is already famous for something else. Look to the quality of American actors in the past, Davis, Holden, Stanwyck, etc. They knew their craft. I somehow doubt that Jennifer Lopez or Justin Timberlake, actors(!) have the ability to convincingly ad lib. Years back I attended an off- off-off-Broadway show, and Cindy Crawford was there-salt of the earth girl by the way-and she was hoping to get into acting. Wow.....how does being a super model qualify one to be a good actor? Either study to learn the craft of acting, or leave well alone. There's enough mediocrity out there already.

R45 is Liam Neeson

Colin Farrell was too stoned to post.

R45 is right though. There is a tradition in Britain of working hard to learn your craft from the bottom up. They just don't have the same structure of already famous > pretty > properly trained. Look at the difference in quality between US vs British soap operas. That should tell you everything.

r47, regarding soap operas: back in the day, when American soaps were still popular, they were seen as strong training grounds for actors getting started, especially the New York-based soaps -- many fine performers emerged from them, such as Julianne Moore, Judith Light, Kathleen Turner. When the last NY-based soap was cancelled (I believe it was OLTL), Light even commented that a major force in the development of American acting was disappearing. (Although a few performers emerged from the LA-based soaps [Tom Selleck, Demi Moore], those programs have never had the acting reputation of the NY-based soaps.)

God bless Russell brand and vinnie jones for paying their dues by studying their craft for years and years prior to hitting the big screen!

R49 haha. I know right!

Where did Liam Hemsworth and Cara Delevingne receive their classical training? For whatever reason being Australian or British lends actors a certain cache in the minds of Hollywood casting directors. HBO seems to have a quota for its shows - each one has to have at least one Brit and one Australian or New Zealander.

Like how Gore Vidal got cast as the snooty villain in *With Honors*, when Joe Pesci was shown a list of possible actors, all British: 'Why go with one of these English assholes when we’ve got one of our own?”

R46

r45 WTF does quoting Shakespeare have to do with acting? European acting and theater traditions is not the center of the world. The truth is that most US actors did theater in undergrad and some even did theater in graduate school. The idea that most American actors just woke up and drove to LA to act is outdated and probably was never true. British actors are just riding the wave of anglophilia and the presumption they are smart and cultured even though most are not.

American actors need to start focusing in formal acting training because that is a theme that keeps resurfacing during castings. I have tried to give American actors a chance, but you can clearly spot the actors that have training behind them. Like any other medium, the best will stand out.

Many people don't understand this, with the expansion of digital media and the internet, Hollywood has become 4 times more competitive than it was 20 years ago. 20 years ago American actors were competing with fellow American actors 89% of the time. They were more likely to get away with having less than formal training. Today, they are competing against a larger pool of fellow country men and an influx of international actors. [bold]Acting is becoming like other professional fields[/bold] where formal training is becoming a necessity if you are American and want to hit it big.

R17. That shit is not true and that has never been audience tested. My God the false conclusions people make. It's just a fluke that black Brits won the parts. And Loving was a flop so again your theory is horse shit.

"If they are better actors, then tough shit. "

True, but it's not always clearcut. Plenty of times, multiple actors could do a good job, and you'd never really know who was "better" unless you made the whole movie with both and compared them. Jackson has never seemed to suffer for lack of roles. I thought Kaluuya was excellent in Get Out, but not transcendent. I could see other actors playing that role.

I don't think it bothers anybody when a Brit, black or white, occasionally gets a role playing an American. The issue is it's a one-way street: the Brits would never allow American actors (particularly unknown American actors) to pick off the best roles.

The number of Brits of modest talents who have been foisted on the American public in the last few years, is ridiculous. Hiddleston, Ejiofor, Oyelowo, Rosamund Pike, and the Aussies - king of useless, untalented and unattractive actors is Joel Edgerton.

They cast an unknown white Brit actress and an unknown black Brit actor in the Star Wars crap. Really?

John Lithgow did play Winston Churchill in The Crown.

I was not happy the extremely heterosexual Samuel L. Jackson did the voiceover for the words of the very gay James Baldwin in "I Am Not Your Negro."

Those of you talking about how the US has many many more trained actors from college programs than the UK-- that's sort of the issue.

So many of those college programs are shit and Hollywood types can't be bothered to learn the good ones beyond Yale and maybe Carnegie Mellon. Because the UK doesn't have many training programs, the perception is that they are more competitive and thus better. McEvoy and others have a valid complaint in that the pay is so terrible, the only people who can afford to do it are those whose parents will pay their way.

I'll add to R59 's point and raise the fact that Meryl Streep played Margaret Thatcher.

R62 and Day Lewis played Lincoln

I'm black, and I've been saying this for years. I'm actually glad Sam Jackson made this into a conversation. To me, it has everything to do with the fact that white Americans tend to look down on non-American blacks just a bit less than they do native born Blacks. And most blacks didn't clock Oyelowo or Ejojo in Selma (because to mainstream Blacks they're both largely unknown), but my jaw dropped at the casting, even though they were both good. And the interview Oyelowo gave about approaching the role with less "baggage" than a black American would really kinda pissed me off. It's not enough that every single person in America thinks they're somehow "above" blacks, now we've got non-American coming in with that same mentality.

And also, I'm just gonna say it, not for one second does Kaluyya pass for American. His features are quite obviously African, which mutes the impact of the role. British blacks come early directly from africa, so they have African features. I was even told before traveling to Italy that I'd experience less racism there because my features are more American than African, even though I'm black. And that person was correct.

The US has many great acting programs (both undergrad and grad.) There are many classically and rigorously trained actors. Unless you went to Yale or Julliard (and are fuckable) Hollywood doesn't care -- they are like the gay guy that only wants to suck straight dick. But the cum really isn't any sweeter. It's all a mind trip.

The reality is that Hollywood has a perception that UK actors are better trained. And just a few years ago, Hollywood was complaining that they had to cast Australian men as leads because American men were too effeminate. It is easier for them to work with the UK/Australian film industries and have them do the work of training and vetting talent...so Hollywood can just come and poach them. It is no risk for them. They don't have to do the hard work of scouting. They can take all the credit, but none of the blame.

It's no different than Broadway slobbering all over each new National Theatre or Donmar Warehouse show...while for the most part ignoring the domestic theatre scene. And it is part of the same culture that is to blame for these endless film/TV reboots. Or the umpteenth restaging of Gypsy...Glass Menagerie...A View from the Bridge...Virginia Woolf.

"So many of those college programs are shit and Hollywood types can't be bothered to learn the good ones beyond Yale and maybe Carnegie Mellon."

Northwestern seems to churn out a good amount of actors who "make it" in some form or another - and it has over along period of time. Whether they're all actually good, I don't know. Unrelated, decades ago, Illinois State of all places produced Gary Cole, John Malkovich, Jane Lynch, Laurie Metcalf, Jeff Perry, Tom Irwin, Sean Hayes, among others. It always struck me as random, granted I don't know much about drama schools.

R64 i've pointed out this phenomenon on a different thread but the mostly white posters couldn't get it because to them all black people are alike. But a black person from another country is treated just a bit better than African Americans. That's why they have a higher employment rate as well.

As for the Brits being hired, I've heard that American studios are getting paid and all kinds of breaks if they use British actors which is why we're being overrun with them now in cinema.

(If Trump had instituted a ban against British actors I wonder how many protests we'd see in the streets)

Why is it cheaper to use British actors? I get that SAG has minimum rates, but certainly there are American actors who will take somewhere over the minimum but not crazy high.

Hollywood would probably argue that it's a global industry (true to a large extent) and thus it doesn't matter. They'd also probably say that it "they're actors" so if they can do the accent, why not? What would change this trend?

That is closer to the truth than anything else that I have read on this thread, r70. Hollywood is now a global industry and is looking to appeal to a wider, international audience --- hence the United Nations casting. With steaming, overseas distribution and sales, even American TV is not thought of as being made for a strictly American audience anymore.

R6 is a trillion percent correct. I have yet to meet a playwright that could write film/tv for shit, but for some reason, they get put into rooms faster than people who actually know how a camera moves. Same applies for theatre directors. Tom Hooper's sense of composition is rage inducing. I also tend to agree w Sam Jackson. There are loads of great black actors in the US who could play all of these roles. Maybe they couldn't meet a US actor's quote on Get Out because it was a fairly tight budget. Just my .02.

I agree with Sam. Look at that Indian chick on that FBI show on abc, her American accent is just terrible. unwatchable and terrible acting, what kind of "training " did she have? I bet lots of Americans can do her job.

And that shortie Jude law keeps getting work, he's merely average, maybe he presented his hole to all to get work, who knows?

Sam must be fucking loaded, he been in a million movies and ads, how much is he worth?

Don't forget, it's also who you know, look at that ugly an untalented whore in shades of grey movies. And have u seen Sean penn's son? He's getting roles.

Spike Lee said it's the only way he can find '"professionalism".

r73, such a good point with the Chopkra woman. God knows she's stunning, but I watched a few episodes of Quantico and that woman can't act for SHIT! I think her casting was about being international and ABC having diversity or whatnot, but Quantico is a nothing show with nothing ratings and zero buzz that is only still on because it made her such a big fashion icon in the US...where nobody watches the show. It's strange.

But, Spike has cast a ton of American actors over the years, no?

If Hollywood is a global industry then why don't the British actors play British characters? Hollywood is still about American characters living in US settings. So I think that is BS.

[quote] the leads in "Loving" were played by Brits

Wrong. The male lead, Joel Edgerton is Australian. The female lead, Ruth Negga, is half Ethiopian and half Irish.

Neither of them are Brits.

[quote] ... shitty Chicago storefront playwrights

Clearly you know absolutely nothing about Chicago theater.

Also, people watch Hollywood films for American actors, culture, they should be promoting USA talents, grooming them into future stars. Instead, they are casting those Aussie brothers, and the new Star Wars flick??? My gawd, I recently saw it and found the female lead so fucking boring!!! She isn't even pretty, so bland!

Actually, R82, I know quite a bit about Chicago theatre. I think it's amazing. It's what the LA scene tries to be, but fails. Are you mad that I said some of it was shitty?

My point is that they scout Chicago playwrights (and playwrights in general) to work in TV. They often have no experience writing for film/TV...but they are deemed "better" and "more authentic" than people who went to film school or junior writers already working in the industry.

Just like foreign actors are deemed "better trained" than Americans. It is all perception. It is not true.

He has a point. I feel British actors must appeal in the audition process because more often than not they are affected and have a falseness. This goes for white and black Brits.

On the other hand Forest Whittaker in THE CRYING GAME had a shitty accent but was so charming and ALIVE.

"Once I’d wrapped my head around how universal these themes were, it became easy for me to pick Daniel, because at the end of the day, he was the best person for the role. He did the audition and it was a slam dunk.”

If this were a white actor getting a role envisioned for a POC (#Tilda) he would not be singing that tune.

They probably think they sound smarter coz they have a British accents when they meet them.

R84 is correctamundo.

The trump family, I think it's Jared side gonna make 400 million in a deal with the Russians. Fuck these cunts, watch for more crazy tweets, it's the sabbath, ivanka wont be there to rein him in

The whole BLM movement continues to implode.....

R67 Even stranger than the Illinois State phenomenon (which was, in part, due to an especially strong and charismatic professor, Alvin Goldfarb, who really developed the program) is that a number of them, such as Malkovich, Sinise, and Joan Allen, began at Eastern Illinois University in Charleston, a small program, with six theatre faculty the year I taught there, none of whom were especially known as teachers of acting (one of them was a married guy too busy looking for cock to pay much attention to pedagogy). I believe Malkovich and maybe the others eventually transferred to ISU, which had a more ambitious program. Sometimes it is a matter of a cohort of talented students happening to be in the same place at the same time--less about the program itself. I don't hear that much about ISU these days for theatre--it was always the top of the "state university" branches (as opposed to the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and at Chicago, the latter never having much of a theatre program, as it couldn't compete with places like Northwestern, Roosevelt, Goodman/DePaul).

Northwestern combines a traditional liberal arts degree with theatre training. When I was a student, it had no specific degree in Acting, a more general degree that covered all the areas of Theatre (and also its unique program in Interpretation, now called Performance Studies, that produced people like Mary Zimmerman, Martha Lavey, and Frank Galati). Students interested in acting could take the three year sequence, but it was always founded on the vision of its legendary "star-maker" Alvina Krause, that students of acting needed to know about psychology, art and aesthetics, history, and the rest of human life, and not just take courses in technique. There is an undergraduate major in Musical Theatre these days, which I suspect is more heavy on professional training. And there is no MFA in Acting (or there wasn't), just MFAs in Directing and Design, as well as MAs and Ph.Ds. in Theatre Studies/Theatre and Drama.

I've been talking about this for YEARS. The African or British-African actors come here, rail about "discrimination," and are basically appropriating the African American story so they can steal roles away from African American actors.

Secondly, Africans usually do not look ANYTHING like African Americans.

To the person above who thinks casting British actors thereby ensures bigger box office (because UK) must be unaware that Brits NEVER go to the movies. Movie grosses in the UK are pathetic. Brits are strictly a down-at-the-pub and TV watching people (granted, the TV's very good there unlike here).

Andre Holland talked about the same issue 2 years ago. I agree with him and Sam, btw.

R73, In her case she's obviously fucking some big wig at ABC.

Hollywood can't win, It's either there are no roles for blacks or it's the wrong blacks getting roles. It works both ways, people from America getting English roles and people from England getting American roles. Samuel should just shut up, you don't need to experience something in life to be able to act it.

And, I'm sure there is lots of Americans that wold do the part for less money but Hollywood doesn't want them.

[quote] Secondly, Africans usually do not look ANYTHING like African Americans.

???

Explain just how that works, given that African Americans are of course of African descent.

I am Swedish-American, and I look like a Swede. My boyfriend is Italian-American, and looks like an Italian.

Because a lot of AfAm are mixed with white, due to slavery rape and willing interracial relationships that produce children. If you know your faces and don't have bias, you can see the differences.

There are too many Brits black and white nabbing roles in Hollywood for which they have no more talent than the homegrown variety. Remember Jack O'Connell? That great star? The Irish also are getting roles American actors should get. The Brits' popularity at least is attributable to American cultural cringe (oooh, they're so classy! love their accents!) but cultural cringe vis a vis the Irish or the Australians (the world's great purveyors of cultural cringe) is fucking ridiculous.

Let's not forget that Hollywood prefers children of established actors over any US actor who has had serious training. Somehow these children have the "acting" gene and their work is better, even though it's really crap work.

GOOP

Alison Williams

Zosia Mamet

The Gummer sisters

Will & Jada's crotch droppings

Matthew Broderick

Charlie Sheen

The list goes on and on

While she may be insufferable, I'd say GOOP is a worthy actress. Not the best, certainly, but better than a lot.

[quote] Because a lot of AfAm are mixed with white, due to slavery rape and willing interracial relationships that produce children.

A lot, yes, but not all of them. Some African Americans look very African.

Huh? African American actors study at drama school and performing arts at university: Denzel Washington, Viola Davis, Angela Bassett, Anthony Mackie, Anika Noni Rose, Nicole Beharie, Samira Wiley, Aja Naomi King, Taraji P. Henson, Ving Rhames, Danai Gurira, Chandra Wilson...

And all of whom are more consistently good than the likes of Tom Hiddleston, Felicity Jones and Daniel Radcliffe stinking up the screen.

Allison Williams looks pretty manish in that pic, no?

[quote]many of these Brits, Australians and Canadians they are casting are young with little to no training.

Yes, this is a very salient point - the idea that the UK/foreign actors we're getting here are all highly trained is ridiculous. More and more of the younger Brit actors did NOT go to drama school and their training consists of a brief period with a youth theater group as a kid before they started doing TV. The rigorous training that many older UK actors got doing repertory theater is pretty much unheard of now.

[quote]SAG should react.

I've thought SAG's non-reaction was weird for years, and I now think it's very deliberate. James Purefoy stated in an interview that in Hollywood, Brit actors are called 'white Mexicans' because they work cheap and aren't as empowered as American actors. It's pretty clear that what's going on is a sideways form of union-busting, and just like union-busting outside of Hollywood, it's desired by the powerful in the industry, so it won't stop.

[quote]British actors are chosen for the quality of their acting.

Sometimes, but certainly not always. The days of the Brits sending us their very best are over - we're getting plenty of their middling or unremarkable actors now, people who are just pretty and who are no better than any American.

[quote]A lot, yes, but not all of them. Some African Americans look very African.

Yes, but assorted DNA studies have shown that virtually ALL African-Americans have some degree of white ancestry. I get what r98 is trying to say, I've seen it myself. Take your average American black and pop them next to some actual Africans, or even British Caribbean people, and more often than not you'll see the difference.

Most African Americans have generations of racial mixing of all kinds on both sides of their family. The black English actors tend to be fully black from African or Afro-Caribbean parentage- Marianne Jean-Baptiste, Idris Elba, David Oyelowo - or have a black parent and a white parent - Thandie Newton, Gugu Mbatga-Raw - and you can kind of see, in some cases, the difference between them and, say, Viola Davis or Ludacris or Paula Patton or Jennifer Hudson.

And so true

An

Agree about the Australians.

Almost all are pretty faces who do a few years on soaps NEIGHBOURS or HOME AND AWAY then go straight to LA. And they are no the chosen for talent. My female cousin was spotted by a H&A casting agent when horse riding and was offered an audition just like that.

Nicole Kidman is a rare case of being a critically acclaimed teen actor, prior to DEAD CALM, who made it.

There are maybe three drama schools in the top tier and a lot of Univerity drama courses. Funnily enough, Sam Worthington received classical training at the same drama school Mel Gibson, Judy Davis, Hugo Weaving and Cate Blanchett attended, so even that's no guarantee of consistence.

[quote]How many American actors are classically trained and can quote Shakespeare ad lib?

I'm sure they are shaking in their boots at the thought of Danny Dyer, Cara Delevingne, Emilia Clarke and Emma Watson!

Hollywood totally ignores college-trained and theater-trained American actors, preferring to give all the breaks for young actors to the children of insiders, trustafarians, models, and people who are famous for something other than acting. When they need someone who can really act, they hire foreigners instead of Americans with real training.

It's a totally fucked-up process, and I don't know how the agents and casting directors who follow these shitty policies keep their jobs.

It's the same in the UK, American actors playing roles that are English characters, it works both ways.

Samuel L Jackson is just trying to cover up his ties to Trump so is starting fires elsewhere. And he doesn't complain about no film roles for women or that Americans play Brits all the time. He's lucky he has a career.

[quote]And also, I'm just gonna say it, not for one second does Kaluyya pass for American. His features are quite obviously African, which mutes the impact of the role. British blacks come early directly from africa, so they have African features. I was even told before traveling to Italy that I'd experience less racism there because my features are more American than African, even though I'm black. And that person was correct.

I live in Italy, r65. You experienced less racism not because, as you claim, of your "American features" (Italians can't tell the difference) but because you were not poor, sleeping rough on the street, having to hustle by hawking trinkets to tourists like many migrants and refugees do. We get many well-off African tourists here who get fawned over. Also, weird, but here we know African does not necessarily mean very dark-skinned like you seem to be implying. Ironic? Take the actress Ruth Negga, nominated for her role in 'Loving' as an example; She was born in the East African nation of Ethiopia, just one country on the continent with a population of more than one hundred million people (there are only thirty something odd million blacks in America), the vast majority lighter-skinned, with finer hair that most black Americans. Both her biological parents are black African. Most people in her country and the wider Eastern African region, including the Horn of Africa, have her features. But it seems your warped mind wouldn't consider her features 'African'. LOL. West Africa is just one part of a very vast continent, FYI.

Also, you seem pleased at having received less racism for being American in Europe while, at the same time, upset that white Americans appear more tolerant of blacks from Africa and Britain. Take a moment to think about that for a minute.

Finally, I notice Samuel L. Jackson and his ilk are not as opposed to Morgan Freeman winning acclaim and awards for playing Nelson Mandela?

I thought Ruth Negga's father was Irish, white Irish. Or was he simply Irish nationality, but black African?

"Take the actress Ruth Negga, nominated for her role in 'Loving' as an example; She was born in the East African nation of Ethiopia, just one country on the continent with a population of more than one hundred million people (there are only thirty something odd million blacks in America), the vast majority lighter-skinned, with finer hair that most black Americans. Both her biological parents are black African."

Sorry, Wiki says Ruth Negga has an Irish mother, not father. So, was the mom white Irish, or just Irish nationality?

I can't wait to see Helen Mirren in the L'il Kim Story.

Daniel's response:Kaluuya’s main point, though, is tough to argue with: that as the British son of Ugandan immigrants, he’s spent his life as an outsider. “When I’m around black people I’m made to feel ‘other’ because I’m dark-skinned,” he explained. “I’ve had to wrestle with that, with people going ‘You’re too black.’ Then I come to America and they say, ‘You’re not black enough.’ I go to Uganda, I can’t speak the language. In India, I’m black. In the black community, I’m dark-skinned. In America, I’m British. Bro!”

He continued, “I have to show off my struggle so that people accept that I’m black. No matter that every single room I go to I’m usually the darkest person there . . . Just because you’re black, [you‘re] taken and used to represent something. It mirrors what happens in the film”—in which Kaluuya’s character, Chris, must escape from a cultish group of suburbanites who fetishize his race, reducing him to a dark-skinned vessel for their own projections of what “blackness” is.

“I resent that I have to prove that I’m black,” Kaluuya concluded. “I don’t know what that is. I’m still processing it.” Sounds like a feeling Peele—who, for the record, has said Kaluuya is “exactly how I pictured Chris,” even though he too was originally resistant to the idea of casting a British actor—could base another movie on.

According to a Vogue interview with Ruth Negga...

[italic]Negga was born in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, to a [bold]white[/bold] Irish nurse and a black Ethiopian doctor who’d met at Black Lion Hospital. When political violence broke out, four-year-old Ruth and her mother went to Ireland and waited for her father to join them.[/italic]

So R112 is wrong. The woman is biracial.

I never knew Ruth Negga's mother is white, r117. Mea Culpa, but my point still stands: I've worked in Ethiopia and her look is very common there. Also proves my point that Europeans mostly can't tell the difference, I'd notice her as another light-skinned black girl if I saw her on the street. And she says it herself in the article you linked:

[quote]When Negga was eighteen, her mother took her back to Ethiopia to visit her father’s grave, which she found challenging, as she has found all of her return trips since. “I find it difficult because it was an abrupt sort of ending to a lot of my life,” she explains. “I’m always very careful to say I’m Irish-Ethiopian because I feel Ethiopian and I look Ethiopian and I am Ethiopian. But there are 81 languages in Ethiopia, and I don’t know any of them.

Here's a link with a bunch of different looking Ethiopian models of various shades. They all seem to have high cheek bones and naturally long hair.

Reading Daniel Kaluuya's entire GQ interview, including his full response, makes me realise what an asshole move Samuel L. Jackson, supported by the likes of r65, pulled. Seems like black Americans are very keen to separate themselves from other black people and do racists work for them. Or maybe they're just looking for someone to discriminate against since they've been on the receiving end for so long. Not an admirable trait. Swedes, Russians, Italians and White Americans may look different but not any less white.

By the way, with this haircut, I can't tell him apart from other black Americans either.

R55, is at the crux of Mr. Jackson's issue. Most actors in Hollywood are not formally educated; not only from an acting standpoint, but from a basic education standpoint. The change from that to nepotism and followers, is making competition cut throat just like the real world.

[quote] Seems like black Americans are very keen to separate themselves from other black people and do racists work for them. Or maybe they're just looking for someone to discriminate against since they've been on the receiving end for so long.

No.

American black actors have been waiting and hoping since Hollywood began for roles with substance and dignity, to play protagonists instead of background characters, to have their own American stories told by them. Along the way they've seen and endured all manner of debasement, and a tragic waste of African-American talent by an American film industry that didn't know or care how to best utilize them - and who weren't above putting brown makeup on a white actor or just changing a character's race to avoid casting them.

So now that a time has arrived when some real headway has been made (and granted, there's still a long way to go) they want to reap the benefits and be part of it. Instead, they're being undercut by foreign competition and told they're not good enough to portray their own stories, their own history. It's fucked up.

There's nothing racist about pointing out that there are cultural differences between American blacks and those from the UK, for example, and that they can affect how a role resonates with an actor. Actors are chameleons, but that doesn't mean that they bring nothing of themselves and their lived experiences to their work. And some of these American experiences and nuances cannot possibly hit a foreign actor they they would an American one.

K.J. Apa of "Riverdale" is from New Zealand. Does anyone think he was hired because of his superior stage training? Please!! The amount of British, Irish, Kiwi, Aussie actors in American films and tv is ridiculous!

Weird.... as a black person from abroad, the most racism I've faced in America came from African Americans. It took me a long time to understand it as I thought, black is black. I think some AAs feel we walked into the room just when the spoils of war is being divied up, but never fought in the war and most importantly, bear very little of the battle scars.

Ethiopians and Somali usually don't resemble other sub-Saharan Africans.

Blacks from other countries act better than African Americans.

[quote]Ethiopians and Somali usually don't resemble other sub-Saharan Africans.

Yet they remain sub-Saharan Africans. Greeks and Italians don't resemble Nothern Europeans. Doesn't make them any less European.

First and second generation Africans have the highest rate of college enrollment, completion and graduate school attendance, of any demographic in America; surpassing even Asian Americans. There's definitely a cultural difference but I thin it's more soci-economic than anything else.

Constance Wu: Asians and Asian Americans are not the same.

It's a little embarrassing that Constance needs to explain the difference.

r100 It took 100 posts to get to the real elephant in the room. (It's the nepotism, stupid!)

I have no idea about Black British vs. African American actors, but it seems to me that, overall, the celebuspawns get preferential treatment and the rest of them get to fight over the leftovers.

Even that annoying-ass Allison Williams is a celebuspawn. (daughter of Brian Williams)

Zoe Kravitz can't act for shit.

R121 makes the point that Samuel Jackson was probably trying to make. I find it irritating for instance that every historical African American figure is now being played by some Brit actor. It's a disgrace that black Americans can't even play a part in their own history and story.

Hollywood is just not the liberal mecca that the media portrays. It's about money, nepotism, who you know and who you can screw all over talent. They don't really care about authenticity or the story they're telling which is why they'll always pick straight actors to play gay parts and foreign born actors to play African Americans. It's why in the past they had white actors playing Mexican and Native American parts. It's a very cynical business.

[quote]Zoe Kravitz can't act for shit.

I agree with you on that. But, I would rather see her in movies and TV shows instead of Willow Smith.

Brits too don't hold an actor's looks in as high regard as Americans do. Uglies like Cumberbatch and Hiddleston would never have gotten a role in Hollywood if they hadn't become famous in the UK before. And unattractive (though very talented) actresses? Forget about it.

[quote]Uglies like Cumberbatch and Hiddleston

They have a "unique" look.

R127 I disagree with you. Its cultural. AA don't value education. That would be acting "white"

This is funny. I'm African and can tell you East, West, South Africans look unique to each other too. In fact, many Africans can guess another's tribe simply by looking at them. So if, to me, David Kaluuya looks typically Ugandan, Ugandans will look at him and say he looks like a man from the Baganda or Toro or Ankole tribes. Often times than not, they would be pretty close. As a kid, we used to play the same game with AA stars like Michael Jordan or Oprah. So instead of wasting money on DNA tests, approach some Africans about your origins. LOL.

I agree with the poster that said Samuel L. Jackson is helping racists, btw. I hope he's happy because racists love it when we're divided at each other's throats. This was such an unnecessary fight to have.

I don't think it's unnecessary R137 if African Americans are being discriminated against. It's amazing how people can parse and make someone the exception as in all the gays are such and such but not you of course, you're one of the good ones. It's the same thing--Hollywood has decided that British black actors are the good blacks, the exceptions.

R138 I do remember Will Smith talking at some point about how he was criticized by a lot of African Americans for "speaking properly" which to them meant speaking like white people. If African Americans speak what is essentially a dialect, it's evident that is going to limit their job possibilities. That would also be true of anybody who talks with effectively the equivalent of a foreign accent, not easily understood by all audiences. Penelope Cruz's career never really blossomed because of her impenetrable accent.

Keegan Peele is the one that picked Kaluuya over everyone else. Not as if he was imposed by some white suits in a Hollywood.

*Jordan Peele. 😂

Daniel kaluuya's eyes are so yellow, I can't even look at him.

It's disgusting, he shouldn't be on film until he does something about that.

same case can be made for white Brits playing Americans. An excellent example is Damian Lewis in Homeland and Billions. I'm sure that he is paid lower than someone of Matt Damon's stature. However, I think DL is an excellent actor anyway.

R143 - also, most British people do NOT look like "Americans." Damian Lewis the LEAST American looking person I've ever seen in my life. Most white Americans have a hybrid look that's hard to describe but you know it when you see it. Think Chris Evans, Ryan Phillipe, etc. Damian Lewis looks straight from the British Isles.

Another thing that is being overlooked: when Samuel L. Jackson said "he comes from a country where they have been interracially dating for hundred years", I think he disaproves. Almost every last black Brit actor is partnered with a white person. This is a big deal.

Damien Lewis is HIDEOUS! His naso-labial folds are truly repulsive.

r112, first of all, Ruth Negga is biracial. Second of all, I experienced plenty of racism in Europe, it just surprised me that it all came from western tourists and not the locals, so I wasn't "pleased" that I was treated a certain way because of a lack of sterotypically African features. I think my point still stands, which is that non-American blacks are the flavor of the month, and I'm glad that this conversation has been opened up. Studios may start to rethink this and try harder to break homegrown talent.

I would have thought this is a good time to be a mid-range actor. The explosion of cable TV means that there are dozens of channels making original programming, not just a handful, and that all the desperate no-talent wannabes who just want to be famous are trying to get into reality TV rather than acting.

[quote]first of all, Ruth Negga is biracial. Second of all, I experienced plenty of racism in Europe, it just surprised me that it all came from western tourists and not the locals, so I wasn't "pleased" that I was treated a certain way because of a lack of sterotypically African features.

Again r147, Ruth Negga may have a white mother, but her look is very common in Ethiopia (she says so herself) which is why I assumed both her parents are Ethiopian. She wouldn't turn any heads in Ethiopia. If you have an Ethiopian community, or restaurant, in your town you'd know this. Also, I've specifically told you your "features" have nothing to do with how you were treated in Italy. Read my post again. Italians discriminate against West Africans, North Africans, East Europeans and gypsies for a completely different reason.

Ethiopians, Somalis, Sudanese probably all have considerable mixed blood - sub-Saharan African with Arab given the proximity and trade between the two regions over the centuries.

R149 All Western Europeans loathe Eastern Europeans. Since they got into the EU (that was a mistake) and flooded into Western Europe, they've turned into the (legal because of the EU) equivalent of Trump's Mexicans. There's the stereotype that all the men (who tend to work in construction) are crooks and all the women are whores, taking jobs away from Western Europeans.

If you don't think this is problematic, consider the careers of a couple of actors from Moonlight. Mahershala Ali is just getting his big break in movies now at age 42. He's been doing mostly TV work and has a lot of credits the past 12 years or so, but why did it take so long for him to break? He has the goods. He can act, he's handsome, and he has charisma, but he still hasn't played a lead in an American film, and several British actors have. Hell, John Boyega has, and he's in his mid-20's. Andre Holland is another troubling case study. He too has what it takes, looks, talent, charisma, and at 37, he's just breaking. Still no major lead roles for him, either. Chiwetel Ejiofor and David Oyelowo have already played leads more than once and they are contemporaries of his. Is someone going to tell me Holland can't compete with them? Really? At least Chadwick Boseman has made it, and getting Black Panther was a major coup for him.

And Spike Lee cracks me up. He want the-uh-tar actors when he was always casting his non-acting ass in big roles in his own films. If there's any flaw in Do The Right Thing, it's Spike having zero chops to pull off his role. Hollywood wants classically trained actors to do Superhero movies and crappy action films. This never ceases to amuse me. The Rock seems to be doing just fine without having attended the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art.

I think R144 makes a very good point. Felicity Jones, in addition to being the most boring actress alive, looks British to the core. Same with Hiddleston and Cumberbatch. The first time I can remember taking notice of Daniel Kaluuya was in Sicario, and I immediately thought he was probably British, even though he does a very good American accent. He just didn't look African American, and no surprise to find out he wasn't.

Someone should also point out that Hollywood is doing the same shit with latinos. Not only are they hiring non-Americans to play these roles, they are usually going to Spanish actors who are not from Latin America, but are instead white Europeans.

R153 - thank you. I can't help but cackle wildly when I see Damian Lewis posing so earnestly in his American military uniform in Homeland. A visual atrocity. Not to mention his horrible "American" accent. It sounds like he has a speech impediment.

R152 If Free State of Jones hadn't flopped, Ali would have won for his role in that - a much bigger part, greater character arc and emotionally devastating. Much better performance than in Moonlight.

R64

whine whine whine

[quote] Almost every last black Brit actor is partnered with a white person. This is a big deal.

Black people are only about 3% of the population of the UK. So from the beginning, their dating pool among people of their own race is far smaller than that of African-Americans. Slavery being a more distant memory there, Interracial relationships are somewhat less fraught, plus the fact that these actors are breathing some rarefied air, in the halls of various drama schools, theaters, etc, where there are far, far more white people than people of color, and you can see how it is that many would end up with white partners. A cultural thing that hits American blacks in a different way than it does many people in the UK.

[quote]Someone should also point out that Hollywood is doing the same shit with latinos. Not only are they hiring non-Americans to play these roles, they are usually going to Spanish actors who are not from Latin America, but are instead white Europeans.

It all shows a profound misunderstanding of who and what the Latinos in the US are. About 67% of Latinos in the US are of Mexican background. And within that Mexican background, they are overwhelmingly of mixed Indian and Spanish heritage (mestizo). These are the poor of Mexico, the ones who have the need to immigrate in order to make a living. There are plenty of white European Mexicans - the ones you see in all their blonde glory on Spanish-language TV. You will not see any of them working at your local restaurants or on the line at chicken processing plants. These are the people for whom Mexico is working, and they mostly come to the US to shop, not scrabble to support themselves. So when a white European like Paz Vega is cast as a Mexican maid, it's just eye-rollingly ignorant. Women like her HAVE maids in Mexico. You could cast her as a Cuban-American, but that's about it.

R150, Africa fascinates me because it's big, diverse and the people effortlessly dance between the modern and traditional. Which is why I was trying to explain to r65 that, other than black skin, there's no such thing as a common African look. Check out these military women from Eritrea in Eastern Africa. They're from the Tigrinya tribe, the largest tribe in Eritrea ...

Link Eritrean military women

And this is how Eritrean women would look in traditional dress.

On one hand, he has a point. But then, there's this: “They’re cheaper than us, for one thing." There you go. Maybe work for less, if the work is something you care about? It's disappointing that a role that originated with the very talented Courtney Vance, in 'Six Degrees of Separation', ends up being given to a talentless shmuck like Will Smith when the movie was made. And Smith immediately balked at "the gay stuff", even though it was integral to the plotline. American casting directors seem divided between casting American rappers or importing talent from overseas.

Can you imagine what Kevin Hart would've done with role? Because you he'd have been cast if Daniel Kaluuya hadn't got it. Good call Jordan Peele.

Kevin Hart and Daniel Kaluuya could plausibly play brothers. But only one is has the talent to pull off such a role.

Kevin Hart is dark-skinned. Does he lack what the poster above is calling "American features"?

R163 - Um, Kevin Hart does not look like Kaluuya AT ALL. Maybe they have similar skin tones, but Kevin looks 100 percent American.

Daniel....

Kevin

Brits are way overrepresented in the Academy too. So they nominate Brits all out of proportion which means producers who want Academy attention, tend to cast Brit actors thinking there is an automatic "prestige because British/Oscar bait" factor.

Lol at R165 and R166 - posting pictures only drives home the point that they don't look similar. The eyes (spacing, deepness, broadness), mouth, eyebrows, massively different, and the nose too, even if they're both broad. You're only seeing skin tone and haircut. But, in your defense, actors don't have to look like actual real-life siblings to play siblings. So, sure, if Tempest Bledsoe and Lisa Bonest can play siblings, so can Hart and Kuulya.

[quote]same case can be made for white Brits playing Americans. An excellent example is Damian Lewis in Homeland and Billions. I'm sure that he is paid lower than someone of Matt Damon's stature. However, I think DL is an excellent actor anyway.

I remember when True Blood was on people on the IMDB boards complained about the Brits and Aussies playing Americans on that show and several other shows.

Dog

Daniel has a very recent African look, as opposed to an African-American look, which is more mixed with a range of African heritages, European and native American.

Hey, Sam. It's called acting.

I'M MUTHA FUCKING TIRED OF THESE MUTHA FUCKING BRITS ON THIS MUTHA FUCKING SET!!!!

White American actors are going through the same thing. Actors from the UK and Commonwealth nations are simply better trained. Plus American actors are more concerned about getting perks and image more than what they have to bring to the role. I’m sure that there are exceptions to the rules, but more often than not it’s true.

Poor Samuel L. Jackson, just a working man trying to put food on his table, losing out to foreign labor!