Camille Paglia Trashes Tragic Has-Been Madonna

(cont.)

It is absolutely ridiculous for Madonna to now claim that she longed to ally with other women at the start of her career but was rebuffed from doing so. The media, in the U.S. and abroad, constantly asked Madonna about me or tried to bring us together, and she always refused.

For example, in 1994, Esquire magazine asked me to interview her for a cover story, but she rejected the proposal. Instead, they got the geriatric novelist Norman Mailer, who knew nothing about Madonna or popular music, with predictably vapid results. HBO wanted to film Madonna and me conversing at a restaurant. Again, she rejected it. And Penthouse too proposed a joint cover story that was shot down.

The real issue is that while Madonna’s world tours have remained highly successful, her artistic development has been stalled for 20 years. The last truly innovative work she did was with electronica producer William Orbit. Madonna has become a prisoner of her own wealth and fame. Her most authentic ideas were inspired by her childhood rebellion against the repressive code of American Catholicism.

When she switched over to Hollywood chic Kabbalah, with its easy-going ethic and pat bromides, she lost her creative drive. Furthermore, Madonna seems to lack the humility and persistence that are required for the study of serious art. She collects art for display, but obviously it has not broadened or deepened her imagination.

The number one issue in Madonna’s current path of self-destruction is her embarrassing inability to deal with aging. She has failed to study the example of her great role model, Marlene Dietrich, who retained her class and style to the end. Madonna keeps chasing after youth, humiliating herself with vulgar displays, like the horrendously trashy, buttock-baring outfit she wore to the Metropolitan Museum of Art Gala in May.

She has become a cringe-making pastiche of ratty blonde hair extensions and artificially swollen cheeks, obscuring the magnificent classic bone structure that made her one of the most photogenic celebrities of the 1990s. In her struggles to stay relevant, Madonna has debased herself with adolescent, pitifully inept Instagrams that cannot compete with Rihanna’s brilliant work in that genre.

Instead of lugubrious rants and hysterical recriminations, perhaps Madonna should try a little honest self-critique.

Lesbians can be so bitchy.

Who?? OP nobody even pays attention to that pathetic hag anymore. The only Camille the world cares about is Camille Grammar.

This certainly is a stunning reversal.

Say what you will, but I love the way Camille's writing meanders a bit then gets back to its point, never failing to drop two or three 100% accessible pop culture reference points.

Never heard of Camille Paglia but she sounds like a bitter, nasty and jealous cunt desperate to tear down other women to make herself sound like a modern edgy "feminist"...

I do love how Camille casually declares "I was Madonna’s first major defender." One egomaniac recognizes another, I guess.

Sheesh, what an asshole.

Lol. I did enjoy reading it, but all she really needed to say was "I never said Madonna set women back." Madonna attacking Camille, who then counterattacks, while most people roll their eyes. They both want whatever attention their little argument might create.

Does this mean Zombie Madonna will cover up in public?

Because if not, it's all bullshit.

Paulette Revere comes screaming here again with its latests anti-Madonna missive!

The number one issue in Paglia’s current path of self-destruction is her embarrassing inability to deal with irrelevance.

R12 nails it.

Paglia was right about Susan Sontag, right about Madonna, right about Hillary. I can't remember the last time Madonna made a coherent point. She's an embarrassment.

Funny thing is, Madge's fans are agreeing with Paglia.

Camille Paglia is a useless cunt.

R12 Camille is not a pop star, she is an educator and intellectual, she doesn't need to be relevant.

But, Paglia's criticisms (Madonna's not growing old gracefully, for example) aren't exactly revelatory, She's dressing up mundane and unoriginal observations as something special. She does have a way with words, but why not use it to rip Trump or Mike Pence a new one - or, if she must go after women, Betsy DeVos or KellyAnne Conway or somebody like that.

It's been covered that years ago Madonna rejected Paglia's sexual advances and right after that Paglia began ripping into Madonna. Madonna has long refused to even sit for an interview with her.

"But, Paglia's criticisms (Madonna's not growing old gracefully, for example) aren't exactly revelatory,"

Exactly R18. Paglia is just old shit in a shiny new "post-feminist" package. She claims to be Madonna's first major defender, but by the time her 1990 article came out, Madonna was already a growing academic subject. Paglia was following, not leading.

Camille would disagree, R17. She has always cared very, very much about her cultural relevancy, and wouldn't shut up about it in the 90s. It was one of her main arguments against Sontag.

I love how haters refer to Madonna as a has been and yet she made $80 million last year alone

She made a record breaking $125 million in 2013 according to Forbes, the highest earning celebrity of that year

If Madonna is a has been than what are Streisand, Cher, Dolly Parton, Janet, JLO, Mariah etc. Madonna is MUCH MORE successful than them lately

Someone sounds mighty jealous. And desperate to use Madonna to get her name in the papers. Hitch you wagon someplace wench. Some of us continue to enjoy the Madonna ride, I've been enjoying her career from the first time I heard her music 34 years ago or so as a young kid. I stand by Madonna, this sicko can go fuck herself.

R23 why I don't agree with everything she does and,Madonna has been acting ridiculous lately, it's fairly obvious that Camille is PISSED because Madonna never acknowledged her or even agreed to MEET with her.

The person who started this thread has to be Janbot, oh yes Janet Jackson, speaking of REAL has beens, a singer who was never important or relevant enough to even be debated by the the likes of Camille Paglia or academia in general.

Artistic relevance = debated in academia??

Paulette Revere = Jabba

Paglia NEVER criticized Madonna over her sexuality. It was exactly the opposite. Madonna may be rich but she is not very bright.

Camille was pro-Madonna for many years and now she's jumping the shark just like so many other people, and wants to make sure we know it. Is there really more to it than that?

btw Madonna's recent butchering of Send In the Clowns at Art Basel while dressed up AS A CLOWN (get it?) was sad and horrendous.

Hopefully a one-woman Sondheim revue is in the works. Just the thing to finally move her into the "mature" phase of her career.

Of all of the critics Madonna has had over the year she chooses Camille Paglia to bring up in her speech, the person who did nothing but praise her for several years?

What was Madonna's last hit song?

Madonna may be the theme of her remarks in the Daily Fail, but, as usual, Paglia's only subject is herself.

In defense of Paglia, if you're a cultural critic, alleged "public intellectual," and general commentator/observer, don't you need to voice your critique/opinion whether or not you're deemed "relevant" or a has-been. While I don't necessarily agree with her and think she's picking at low-hanging fruit here, this is what she does, no? If this is her "job" then she can't back off just because people think she's past her prime.

R31 Give,Me All Your Lovin was a moderate top 10 hit in 2012 and went Gold in the US and sold almost 2 million copies worldwide, making Madonna the only artist to have top 10 singles on the main Billboard Hot 100 during the last 4 decades (80s, 90, 2000s, 2010s).

Her last MASSIVE worldwide smash was 4 Minutes with Justin Timberlake in 2008 when she was 50, it sold over 6 million copies worldwide and spend 11 weeks at #1 on the United World Singles Chart as the #1 song in the world.

R28 actually Paglia has been anti Madonna for at least 20 years now, she wrote a scathing article about Madonna when she had Lourdes in 1996, this is nothing new

In fact it's fairly obvious that Paglia turned on her and became negative to her in the mid 90s when it became fairly obvious that Paglia was pissed that her dream to interview and meet Madonna would never become a reality because Madonna paid her no mind.

Paglia even wrote a scathing "review" on her massively successful and huge moneymaking Confessions Tour in 2006. This isn't new people.

R31, Whatever it was, the only place you'll hear it is an Oldies station.

R36 it was in 2012 you imbecile , her last MASSIVE worldwide #1 was in 2008

Oldies stations play songs from the 2000s?

Really???

[quote]If this is her "job" then she can't back off just because people think she's past her prime.

I'm sure Pag would agree with you; but she's not applying the same principle to Madge.

R37, Relax Madgebot. Madonna's not all that, Cher's had hits in six decades.

R39 wrong. Cher hasn't had a big hit on the MAIN Billboard Hot 100 since 1999 with her massive Believe single.

Cher has had top 10 hits on the Hot 100 like Madonna in 4 different decades, in Cher's case the decades are the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s.

Cher has the occasional "hit" on the dance chart but I don't consider that as legit because it's for dance singles only

For what it's worth Madonna has had a record breaking 46 #1 singles on the dance chart including 3 in 2015 alone

R40 Billboard would disagree

R41 what part of MAIN Billboard Hot 100 chart don't you understand?

Yes Cher has had a #1 single during the last 6 decades on A singles chart, which could mean anything from dance to adult contemporary singles, but she's ONLY had a #1 on the MAIN Hot 100 5 times in her career and last had a big hit there in 1999 with Believe

Many of Madonna 's #1 dance singles I don't count as legit hits if they don't go at least top 10 on the main Hot 100

So Madonna 's 3 #1 dance singles last year aren't hits because none were a success on the Hot 100

For what it's worth Madonna could fart and burp on a record and it'll go to #1 on the dance charts, she has 46 #1 dance songs more than any artist on ANY Billboard chart

Cher only has 12 top 10 singles on the Billboard Hot 100 despite debuting in the 60s, Madonna has a record breaking, more than any artist in history, 38 top 10 singles on the Hot 100 despite debuting 20 years later in the 80s

Madonna has sold more than THREE TIMES as many records as Cher, over 350 million worldwide vs. Cher's over 100 million.

You can come at Madonna over many things but her commercial success has always been phenomenal and unmatched by female artists

She may well be the most commercially successful artist that ever existed because although Madonna is the 4th top selling artist and #1 female of all time worldwide, Cher isn't even in the top 100, she's also the top grossing solo touring artist of all time.

R43 is indisputable. No one can touch Madonna's career or even come close to it.

It amuses me that Madonna lumps Paglia in with other feminist, who criticized her. Paglia spent a lot more time thinking about Madonna than the other way around. Paglua seemed to think Madonna owed her something. Pop stars don't need the approval of academics.

R44 exactly. I mean according to Billboard, Madonna is the #2 most successful act EVER on their charts behind only The Beatles.

Cher is #34

I was surprised when I looked up Madonna 's history on the United World Singles Charts that Madonna was the #1 act ever worldwide with more #1 singles, 22, on the global singles chart than anyone in history.

She was above Elvis and The Beatles

Madonna was also the #1 selling singles artist of the 2000s in the US according to Billboard, which is just phenomenal when you consider that she debuted in 1982 and was in her 40s and early 50s during the 2000s nowhere near the target age of people who buy singles.

Her Music single from 2000 was the 2nd biggest selling single of the entire decade of the 2000s in the US. Just wow.

Cher has an Oscar. The end.

Yes, just wow, r46. lol. Fucking Mary! Madonna is musically irrelevant and a relic now. She's a novelty act now and a train wreck.

Cher couldn't even get that song she sang in Burlesque nominated for a Oscar. She's over.

R47 that's nice and I like Cher as an actress but we're talking about MUSICAL careers here

Madonna was inducted into the Rock and Roll HOF her first year eligible in 2008, Cher has been eligible for years but has never even been NOMINATED for induction.

R48 throws parties and he's the only one who shows up.

Madge can't even get a hit in Europe now.

Madonna bought her way in, r50 and everyone knows it. It just happened to coincide with her latest album's promotional schedule. It was a joke.

Madge is in an anti-gay cult.

Camille is a tragic has-been

R48 but she's still one of the most successful over 50 artists today. She'll never be as relevant as she was but that's the norm, when was the last time McCartney was relevant? Probably before I was born.

R52 for what it's worth Madonna BARELY releases singles anymore, she's ONLY released about 5 since 2010 and artists pushing 60 NEVER have hits. Madonna still sells a decent amount of albums and her recent albums all chart high in basically every major country. I mean her ladt album sold 1.2 million worldwide but it would of sold more if it didn't leak in full 5 months in advance, she sells like 4 TIMES what Britney and Mariah sold with their last albums. Madonna still has a MASSIVE international fan base that goes to her concerts and buys her albums, if Rebel Heart didn't leak months in advance it would of easily sold 2 million worldwide instead of 1.2 million which would of placed it as the #5 or #6 selling album of 2015.

I know huge Madonna fans who know the album inside out but didn't buy it because they got it for free with the leaks

My albums still reach #1.

R53 not true in fact Madonna didn't even perform, which is the norm at the ceremony, and didn't even want to attend not because she was mad about being inducted but because she felt it was too soon and she had more to do

Madonna was quoted as saying "I was surprised and it is an honor but I was like no it's not over yet, isn't thehall of fame like the end, the finale. I think the Hall of Fame should be set up like sports stars, where you have to wait 5 years after you retire to even be ELIGIBLE for induction ".

As far as the general public is concerned, Madonna retired years ago.

R57 true but so does Madonna

In fact Madonna has had a further 5 #1 albums since 2000 and a 6th album, Rebel Heart, was the #1 selling album the week it was released but Billboard added streaming numbers and she was inched out by the Empire soundtrack, which had massive streaming numbers, despite still having the #1 selling album of that week.

R59 but how do you explain Madonna being the #3 selling album artist of the 2000s worldwide

Or the #1 grossing solo touring artist of all time with 1.3 BILLION in revenue since 2001

Or Madonna having the biggest hit in her career and one of the biggest selling physical singles of all time with the 9 million selling Hung Up in 2005-2006, it also spent 15 weeks at #1 on the world singles chart

Years ago?

I'm betting Madonna has a huge landfill somewhere filled up with all the albums she's "sold".

No, R62. That would be Janet Jackson.

R62 probably not dude. Madonna has never been into sales statistics or awards

In fact, Madonna has a bunch of albums and singles that are undercertified, so her actual record sales are higher than the reportrd number

Madonna doesn't care enough to spend a couple of thousand of dollars to have then recertified

Undercertified? Oh god, you Madonnastans kill me.

Madge's last album didn't even clear a million copies (987,657 sold since 2015).

Her film didn't even make a million dollars at the box office. It cost millions to make.

She has no talent. McCartney has talent. Madonna doesn't. She was a poptart from another generation. She extended it a bit thanks to moving to England and marrying a Brit. Now that that's over, she's over. She's just embarrassing now. She'll have to sing "Like a Virgin" at 70 if she wants to tour.

R18, yes I think a KellyAnne Conway critique would be a fantastic read and much needed.

She blew up her ass so now it looks like a hot air balloon.

R59 since 2000 Madonna has sold between 90-100 million records (albums and singles ) alone

That's more than what Streisand and Cher sold in that same period COMBINED and TIMES TWO.

Well, DAMN, that was quite a read. As a child of the 80s and 90s, I grew up with and idolized Madonna. I still think her mid 80s to early 90s period remains unequaled in pop culture - musically, visually and, certainly, culturally. Although I disagree with Paglia's timeline -- I think she still produced (a handful) of great pop music since Ray of Light -- it's hard to argue against her assessment of present-day Madge, low hanging fruit or not.

Sure, hon. 100 million pounds of filler in them cheeks.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

....

Yeah, R72. We can clearly see that is Madonna.

....

R56, "would of"?

Would OF? What does "would of" mean?

It's "would HAVE", contracted as "would've". This is something you should of learned in elementary school.

R66 Madonna didn't even sing Like a Virgin on her ladt tour which still made $170 million

McCartney still tours and doesn't sell nowhere near or generate the amount of box office that Madonna does on the road .RH sold that amount BEFORE streaming, streaming put total sales over 1.2 million

In fact Madonna with Rebel Heart was only 1 of a measly 5 albums released by women to sell over 1 million copies in the last 2 years.

So even in 2015-2016 Madonna is STILL one of the top selling female artists in the world with her new material. On an unrelated note it's depressing how bad album sales are across the board.

When you've lost the argument, hurry up and post some Madonna photos!

Yes, she did sing it, r77.

....

Each tour is selling considerably less than the previous. Oops.

Poor Madge couldn't even reach #1 in the UK with her last flop album. Fart.

She's still breaking records with those tours. Always in the top 2, 3, or 4.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R81 yes but she also has the top 2 selling tours of all time by a female artist. The standards are insanely high

R78 she sang it on MDNA but not her last, Rebel Heart, tour

R66 McCartney is also an odd comparison since he only really has consistent success from about 1964-1975 first in The Beatles and then with Wings

Madonna DOMINATED chart wise from 1984-2009, I believe every album she released went multi platinum in those 25 years and also every tour she did got bigger and she sold more tickets up until her $408 million grossing 2008/2009 tour, so "extended it for a bit" is a huge understatement

Warner Bros. really new how to market her

R82 yes Rebel Heart debuted at #2 and VIRTUALLY every album that Madonna releases in the UK goes to #1, in fact she has more #1 albums in the UK (12) than any solo artist ever but as previously stated RH leaked in full, even the demo versions!, 5 months in advance, that obviously put a huge dent on sales.

Again her standards for commercial success are incredibly high. Sometimes I wish she wasn't as successful globally chart wise like Dolly Parton or Cher, or Janet Jackson than the expectations wouldn't be so high with Madonna

R48 you mean NOSTALGIC act, novelty acts are people who have 1 hit and dissapear like the Macarena and Uptown Funk people.

Words are important!

"No one can touch Madonna's career or even come close to it."

Not even with somebody else's dick.

Look I'm a Madonna fan but I don't think that she walks on water in fact I DID say that she acts ridiculous lately a lot of the time and brings a lot of criticism on herself

In fact Paglia had some valid points including the favt that since Ray of Light in the late 90s, Madonna's music hasn't been innovative which is true.

She's released 6 albums since then and at least 3 of them have been great but NONE were really that musucally innovative compared to her career up until Ray of Light

But does Madonna always have to be innovative in her work? Her primary job is as a female entertainer and performer and she's more than succceeded at that level, she's the most successful and richest female musical petformer that even live, even Paglia admits this in her intro, Madonna shouldn't be required to always be innovative in her music

I mean people like Mariah Carey have NEVER been musically innovative so it's a non issue with her.

Rebel Heart is a really good album and it even featured in People and Rolling Stone magazines "ten best albums of 2015 " lists

The problem is that Madonna's seeming obsession to be seen as young and edgy, the Drake kiss, the teeth shit she wears, that ridiculous vote for Hillary blow job comment ,completely overshadoes one of her best and most introspective albums in years. The RH tour was also excellent

Unlike some people on here, I do think Madonna has talent, I think her biggest talent is as a songwriter, she writes basically ALL the lyrics to her songs, and songs like the beautiful Joan of Arc off her last album is the more mature direction she should go in with her next album.

Adele has cited Madonna and her Ray of Light album as a big influence on her career, it would be interesting if they work together.

Sales does not necessarily constitute quality.

Da Vinci Code sold more Take Me to Paris, Johnny, but I know what was the more superior and relevant work.

I'm not sure if Madonna attracts much a new audience. McCartney had done some interesting, different music over the years, and attracts new fans from varied generations, though perhaps not a huge number.

Whatever you may think about Paglia, she's not wrong.

Madonna is an has-been now and her audience is also has-been now. She's selling tours but it doesn't mean her relevant.

Learn to age gracefully, granny.

R92 there's lots of younger people, college age and 20 something, into Madonna, at least at her concerts Ive seen them.

I'm in my early 30s so Madonna had already started her career before I was born. I became a fan during the Confessions album era of 2005-2006. I remember the first two singles from that album, Hung Up and Sorry, always being #1 on the teenage MTV vote show TRL, I remember thinking that was odd that teenagers liked it because Madonna was old back then.

Madonna is actually the most critically acclaimed female artist ever according to Metacritic, 2 of her albums Like a Prayer and Ray of Light have the highest critical acclaim of any 2 albums released by a female pop artist ever, her body of work is extremely impressive, again her "look at me I'm hip and edgy " over shadow this.

When bashing Madonna , people seem to forget this. When she's good, she's GOOD, regardless of the fact that she doesn't have a great singing voice

The Ray of Light era in particular was amazing, not just the album but the videos too. You watch the Frozen video and it's just breathtaking , this is art.

R93 playing devil's advocate here, that's basically every veteran act over 50, I mean commercially speaking.

Even the "successful " over 50 acts like Streisand and Bon Jovi and Cher sell less than Madonna worldwide with their recent work, so if Madonna is a has been what are they?

Of course none of those acts including Madonna have nothing to prove anymore. I mean without sounding ageist, pop music is for the young, hell even Katy Perry and Lady Gaga who are only in their early 30s aren't having big hit singles on the charts lately. When Madonna was that age she was still having hit after hit.

A Madonna type career of massive commercial success for 25 plus years will never happen again in pop music for a variety of reasons.

I'm not raggin' on you, R94, but there is no way that Madonna can be said to be one of the most critically acclaimed female music people of all time. Her work does not come close to having the sort of seriousness of purpose that is required to be held in high enough regard.

Has she ever won the Pazz/Jop Village Voice critics poll? (No, she has not.)

Take a look at the list of Pazz/Jop winners. That is what critical consensus/acclaim looks like.

R95 If it can please you, Madonna is not the only has-been of her generation.

The problem is that Madonna claims to be still 20 years old and acts like a 20 years old. Bon Jovi or Streisland don't act that wayt, they act like normal people who know they're not 20 years old anymore and are at peace with it.

By the way, today no one could have Madonna's longevity, but it's more due to new technologies than lack of talent.

R92 McCartney has completely lost his voice.

Which reminds me...

Paglia only trashed Madonna after Madonna attacked HER.

And, really, everything Paglia says is true.

Which, of course the MadonnaBots all HATE to hear...

That is not how it actually occured. Madonna began refusing all phone calls, emails from Paglia and refused interviews with her because she was a pest. It was then and only then that Paglia began publicly attacking Madonna.

I still think Paglia just wanted to lick her stink hole.

Yay - yet another Janbot Madonna-hatred thread....

R96 a few years back ACCLAIMED MUSIC did a master list of the most critically acclaimed artists ever based on reviews from the top music critics in the world

Madonna came in in the 30s and was the top woman overall

Ill post the link when I can find the full list

Why did Madge even go there?

R97 Madonna entered that institutional phase of her career around the release of Ray of Light in tge late 90s, where no matter what she said or did her legacy would be secure.

That's another reason why Madonna will never TRULY be a has been, she's too industry and makes way too much money for herself and the industry and basically every younger pop girl who has hit songs on the charts now has openly expressed how they would love to work with her, Arianna Grande has said this a million times.

And Madonna is STILL one of the top selling women worldwide during the last 2 years on the charts with a leaked in full album and all

Not really has been material

Paglia is just as much a tragic has-been as Madonna, if not more so. No self-respecting academic would trot out the tired old "women should age gracefully" crap and pretend it's a fresh new take on celebrity.

Pauline Kael was making some of the same points in the 1970s and doing so without being a sexist asshole about it.

True but she doesn't define anything anymore.

WHen you think new and edgy you don't think Madonna anymore.

The unreadable analyzes the unwatchable.

R108 you're 100% correct but Madonna is almost 60, is she required to be edgy and cutting edge?

David Bowie, one of Madonna's biggest influences and Prince were edgy when they first appeared but not at all in the last 20 years before their untimely deaths this year.

An artist whose been around for 34 yyears is never new and edgy

The problem here is that SHE still thinks she's new and edgy.

She's the one shaking her fake ass and wanting to suck Clinton's voters, not anyone else. That's what makes her pathetic, other singers who are her age and older don't have this kind of problem.

R111 I agree with you to an extent, I mean that comment about giving blow jobs to Hillary voters, while obviously a joke , she was doing stand up with her new BFF Amy Schumer (ugh!) when she said it, was a real low point of her trying to be edgy.

You mention that older artists don't have this problem, but Madonna still makes more money than these older artists that don't have this problem, so in her eyes as long as you continue to be one of the highest paid entertainers it's all good. So Madonna 's like "what problem, I made $125 million in 2013 more than anyone in show business that year even Oprah! I made $80 million last year too".

As soon as her bizarre behavior effect her bank account than Madonna will change her tune, but that'll never happen, she has way toi much of a die hard international fan base that worships her every little move and she knows it.

I mean she makes millions every year just off her tour MERCHANDISE sales.

The real problem is Camille Paglia is the kind of stupid person who should be working at Wal-Mart behind the register instead of writing columns and pretending to be an intellectual. She's probably in the bottom 5%, brains wise.

Madonna is intellectually insecure and too stupid to realise Paglia was her biggest champion, especially in the Blonde Ambition era.

One thing about Madonna is that she is a superstar the world over, which many celebrities in the US are not.

Barbra Streisand, for example, is not all that famous outside of North America. People in other countries know of her, of course, but Streisand could walk down the street in Paris, Tokyo or Buenos Aires and nobody would bother her. Madonna, on the other hand, would be instantly recognized and crowds would form around her if she walked down the street in any of those cities.

Oprah is probably the most famous woman in America, but in other countries many people don't really know who she is.

Look, most of us here LOVED Madonna back in the day. We championed her, WE were her biggest fans.

So the old girl is having a mid life crisis. She doesn't like aging. So what? Most of us don't either. Some of us have accepted aging easier than others. If we live long enough, it gets us all. She too, will eventually accept it, just like we all do.

The problem with Madonna is that she can't let go of youth and has almost regressed into an infantile adolescent girl. It's as if the introspective of Bedtime Stories and Ray of Light never happened at all. Madonna's parading around in videos like Bitch I'm Madonna and thinks that if she acts like she's down with the current scene, the kids will think she is one of them instead of an embarrassing old mom type trying to be cool in front of her daughter's friends. It really is beyond pathetic.

How bad does Janet's pussy stink?

R96 Google Most critically acclaimed artists of all time and the acclaimed music site pops up on Google

Every major artists every single and album is taken into account and the reviews of there work from the top most influential music critics worldwide are taken into account to form the 1000 most critically acclaimed artists of all time list

Madonna is the most critically acclaimed woman at #27 followed by Aretha Franklin at #32 and PJ Harvey at #50. Only 3 women place in the top 50

Madonna 's work is actually more critically acclaimed than Michael Jackson who olaces #31 on the list

Janet Jackson is #257 on the critics

Note this list DOESN'T incude music videos or live performances, Madonna would be even higher on the list if those were taken into account

I told you critics have loved her in various times of her career when they generally don't show much love to female pop stars

R115 EXACTLY. WHen Madonna was on Oprah in thr late 90s during the Ray of Light era, Oprah herself said to Madonna that she DEFINES fame on a "global scale"

Madonna has appeared on more magazine covers in more countries worldwide, over 10,000 different covers, then any person that's ever LIVED in the history of the world

The list R120 is talking about is here:

Madonna is also the 2nd highest woman on Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists List. (Madonna is at 36, Aretha Franklin is at 9.) Ignore the essay "written" by Britney Spears--the ranking was decided by "assembling a panel of 55 top musicians, writers and industry executives (everyone from Keith Richards to ?uestlove of the Roots) and asking them to pick the most influential artists of the rock & roll era."

We can all rag on Madonna now for her fear of aging, but there's no denying her long-term influence.

We all know Madonna is a legend and will always be famous, there's no denying that. The point that Paglia was making was that Madonna has entered her Mae West "Sextette" years and looks absolutely ridiculous.

R123 and that was done in 2004. In 2010 VH1 did a similar list and Madonna came in at #16 on the all time 100 greatest artists list, she was the #1 woman

In 2012, VH1 did another list of the 100 top female artists from 1990-2012 and Madonna came in at #1 DESPITE the fact that it didn't incude her 80s career.

The Datalounge is literally the only place where the same bitter queens try to CONSTANTLY down Madonna and rewrite history. It's rather sad.

If yiu don't like her that's wonderful, as a fan Ill wven admit that she doesn't cone across aa loveable, but just ignore her. It's not good to CONSTANTLY hate on a celebrity who has no idea of your existence.

I don't hate Madonna personally, I was a fan when I was a young boy (ugh) and have had a soft spot for her ever since, but I will say this:

Any list that ranks Madonna ahead of PJ Harvey in terms of perceived acclaim, is a joke. Madonna has been around longer, sure, but there is no way in hell she is held in regard than someone like PJ Harvey, who plays multiple instruments and is a serious songwriter and artist with principles and integrity.

*held in higher regard than someone like PJ Harvey

CP is a fruitcake- completely nuts. She's like Anne Coulter- why pay attention to anything she says?

CP is a fruitcake- completely nuts. She's like Anne Coulter- why pay attention to anything she says?

R126, I'm a huge PJ Harvey fan, but she simply does not have the level of influence Madonna has had. That's a big chunk of what these "greatest" lists capture. The Beatles always are at #1, maybe #2, but there are tons of bands that were technically more proficient and creative. Elvis is always near the top of these lists and he couldn't play or write shit.

Streisand, who was cutting brilliant albums at Columbia when Madge a toddler, was and is a better actress, singer, and role model for women than Cher or Madge on the best of days. And at least Jason Gould isn't a proto-douchebag like Rocco or a fat tranny mess like that thing that popped out of Cher's vagina and keeps typing its name.

And Rolling Stone is responsible for the schlockification of popular music. Seriously, Eminem? He's horrible. And that shit isn't even music by any definition I accept.

Typing = changing

Again, nobody is doubting Madonna's career achievements or legend status. THE FUCKING POINT being made by Paglia is how ridiculous she is now. Jesus.

[quote] Again, nobody is doubting Madonna's career achievements or legend status.

She may have gotten them but did she actually deserve them? There's the difference.

R126 Madonna plays instruments and writes her own lyrics as well

She started out as a drummer and a guitarist in a punk rock band in the late 70s

I actually had no idea who PJ Harvey was until I saw that list last year and looked her up.

Not bad.

CP admitted to sexual fantasies about Anna Nicole Smith. I think she's a chubby chaser.

I can't take anything Paglia says with any kind of seriousness. At one time she was literally performing analingus on Madge. Now she's riding the coattails of the anti-Madonna sentiment that has been going on now for a while. Parliament is just as desperate to stay relevant as Madonna is.

True r47. Albeit, an undeserved Oscar nonetheless...but we digress.

Madonna is the standard by which pop music success for women is held too.

It's always funny when you watch these new female pop stars who are supposed to be "the new Madonna " and they have 1 or 2 big albums and then Madonna goes right back to outselling them with her new material

[quote]Madonna plays instruments and writes her own lyrics as well

She plays a few cords on guitar badly and when left to write lyrics on her own they sound like a four year old wrote them. Give it a rest, flamer. She's a no-talent who's been sued a million times for stealing. Stephen Bray outed her ass for taking credit for all his work on the songs he gave he. She changed one word for a writing credit. She's the original Beyonce. Unfortunately for her, the internet has leaked all her demos from the likes of Pharrell and co and show that she literally changes a single line or lyric and suddenly she gets the first writing credit on the track. She's a con artist. She has no skill as an artist.

[quote] Cher has an Oscar. The end.

So does Streisand, even if she had to share it with Katharine Hepburn it's still more than Madge has.

[quote]It's always funny when you watch these new female pop stars who are supposed to be "the new Madonna " and they have 1 or 2 big albums and then Madonna goes right back to outselling them with her new material

Must be nice to live on the same planet as Donald Trump. The only way Madonna sells albums is to bundle them with tour tickets and her shitty perfume.

[quote]Madonna is also the 2nd highest woman on Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Artists List.

At the moment. It changes year to year. Once Madonna's 50 year old gay fans die, so will she. No one under a million cares about her. She made disposable fluff. Had she stopped in the late 90s, she might have been able to pull off one of the biggest cons in history, but no, she had to ruin it and swirl into Baby Jane territory. Now her "legacy" is a Britney Spears kiss, plastic surgery, and Kabbalah.

[quote]So the old girl is having a mid life crisis.

Mid-life? She WAAAAAAAAAY PAST MID-LIFE, hon. She's ancient. She's almost 60. Mid-life is 40s. She's been a joke for the past 15 years.

R142 i see the haters are okiut again

Madonna has NEVER sild her albums with her perfume and Only ONCE in her career sokd them bundled wuth tour tickets, tge MDNA tour, TONS of artists have done it since that ONE time Madonna did.

R140 STEPHEN BRAY and EVERY producer and co writer she has worked with has praised her songwriting and producing skills

She's hardly a fraud, Madonna has listed songwriting as her favorite thing to do

R 141 So Madonna doesn't have an Oscar, either does MJ or Elvis it doesn't take away from the fact that they're the 3 most important solo artists in contemporary pop.

Streisand, Sinatra, Doris Day and Cher are the only people who started out as singers and had successful film careers. I guess you could count Elvis too, but his movies were all complete shit. It's extremely rare for a singer to have a second career as a movie star.

Isn't it interesting that as soon as Madonna offered a blow job to anyone who voted Hillary, HRC saw her numbers sink in the polls.

Michael Jackson was one of the few good things about the movie [italic]The Wiz[/italic], Elvis wasted his acting ability on shitty scripts but only because nobody good wanted to work with Col. Tom Parker. But Madonna gets chance after chance after chance and never gets any better. The supporting cast carried [italic]Evita[/italic], she basically killed John Schlesinger with her behavior on the set of that terrible Rupert Everett movie, and even her directorial debut is morally problematic. While she claims women hate other women, the woman she chose to idealize in her first film as director was a Nazi sympathizer! At least [italic]Yentl[/italic] had a few nice tunes.

R124/R133, we were responding to R96 and the like. Calm the fuck down.

Let's face it: Madonna is a joke. It's obvious. She looks and acts like that embarrassing drunken aunt that the rest of the family is tired of dealing with.

R146 actually Madonna is a shit actress but she's had a number of successful films at the box office

I read somewhere that combined her movies grossed more than Cher's at the boxoffice

Madonna also produced a number of successful movies at the box office including the Agent Cody Banks movies

Frankie Munoz said she was a "cool boss"

151 Agent Cody Banks? You're really scraping the bottom of the barrel. Is that you, Madge?

R115, your comment about Streisand being unknown in Europe is a ridiculous fantasy. You sound like you've never even been to Europe.

R152 I know it's shit but I'm pointing it out that Madonna produced it and its one of her many film successes Madonna.even if we ALL agree that she false under the Elvis category of being in some successful films but being a bad actor

r153 I didn't say Streisand isn't unknown in Europe, she's just not the megastar she is in the US. And I've been everywhere in W. Europe.

Ahh-hahahahaha!!!!!

'Janet's unique persona combines bold, brash power with quiet sensitivity and womanly mystery. Her latest music is lightning and moonglow.'

--Camille Paglia on the janet. album

You know, you could switch the women's names in this thread title and it would be just as funny.

Camille did defend Madonna, I remember that. But Madonna was incredibly competitive and threatened by other women. Her female buds were sidekicks, not peers: Sandra Bernhardt, Rosie O'Donnell. No one that could get near her domain. She and Sandra brutalized Sinead when she came on the scene and Madge also got weird about Gwen Stefani and Nineh Cherry. (Didn't she and Courtney have a frenemy thing going on for a bit?)

She did help female artists though. I remember watching the MTV Music awards during the breakout indie/grunge era (my time). It should have been packed with riot grrls and Lilith Faire type artists. Yet for some reason, the only female performer was the bass player in Smashing Pumpkins, and they were one of the only younger acts. It was white male classic rock artists after white male classic rock artist. Bruce Springsteen, Tom Petty, Aerosmith.

You'd think '90s MTV would have known better.

It was so depressing and dreary to watch. Then in the middle of this, out comes Madonna simply to present. I was snotty about her then, but was so relieved to see her. And that's when I realized the importance of her place in the continuum. She needed that diva quality to almost single-handedly interrupt the pantheon of male rockers that had come before. She needed that star quality to pull it off because the status quo was so entrenched.

Even Madonna's kids hate her. It's not just Paglia.

Madonna was held in high esteem through basically all of the 2000s until 2008, when Madonna got dicorced, turned 50, dressed provocatively for the first time since 1994, took up with A Rod and had obvious plastic surgery

Because she dared to have a sexuality at 50 she was a "dirty whore" again

Again men don't go through this

[quote]Madonna also produced a number of successful movies at the box office including the Agent Cody Banks movies

Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Pass me one of Madge's depends. I laughed so hard, I peed.

[quote]Again men don't go through this

Men don't take out their grandpa dicks and flabby asses and stick their 50 year old tongues down 20 year olds throats and expect the world to think their hot shit and then cry sexism when people are grossed out like Madge.

And BTW, Madonna was a joke before she turned 50. She was turned out crap albums before that. She was showing her ugly ass in a leotard, and let's not forget that horrible American Life album where suddenly she was holier than though with the faux British accent.

*they're

Had the tables been turned and a 60 year old guy done this to a 20-something year old girl, society would be calling for their execution. The ever-feminist Madonna turned around and called Drake a "girl" for not enjoying her kiss. So she actually hates her own gender. The woman is too stupid for words.

In 2004, Madonna said that everything she did prior, including the Sex book, was done primarily for attention.

I'm so glad that has changed r166.

R165 well you do realize that the Drake kiss was REHEARSED countless times as was the whole performance and Drake new what was going to happen

Even Drake admitted that she kissed him during rehearsals too.

Yeah, men's gross-out creeper intergenerational sex is done mostly in private. They display their women for bragging rights and the whole world knows those women made a deal for $ or have psychological issues, very similar to Steven Fry and his boy toy. There are a few exceptions, but not many.

[quote]Even Drake admitted that she kissed him during rehearsals too.

Link.

Has Madonna ever championed her female peers?

I've only ever seen her jump at the chance to associate with the younger "it girl" in pop music to get attention for herself.

Bottom line is that

MADONNA is a sad old lady now who has not aged gracefully.

I don't think Madonna's ever palled around with her female peers.

MADONNA would be a shoe-in if they decide to make

THE YVETTE ViCKERS STORY

R174, don't tell me. You are 95 years old, right?

I miss the old MADONNA ..............

MADONNA has always been a gal of incredible depth !

R171R173 bullshit and delusions, Madonna has CONSTANTLY talked about being influenced by Debbie Harry, Chrissie Hynde, Joni Mitchell, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner etc

I even have a book that has a whole chapter of Madonna talking about the female artists that influenced her

When she was riding high with Ray of Light, Madonna told the readers of her fan club magazine ICON to go buy Cher's new album, Believe, because it's "amazing "

Madonna did a radio interview when Hard Candy came out in 2008 and when asked what new albums she liked, she responded by saying that she likes Janet Jackson 's new album Discipline and then they played Feedback, Janet's new single after Madonna requested it and Madonna was like "that's a great workout song!"

Madonna generally ALWAYS has nice things to say about other female artists in pop.

I know that doesn't fit into the DL mentality

Madonna said a lot of positive things about Whitney too

If anything, the new pop girl of the moment latch onto Madonna like that insufferable Ariana Grande qho CONSTANTLY Tweets her love for Madonna and has been up her ass the last 3 years

30 years into her career and Madonna still hasn't figured out she'd be respected if she stopped shoving her pussy and tits in everyone's face.

R178 Debbie Harry, Chrissie Hynde, Joni Mitchell, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner are not really her peers, they came before her

R170 Madonna said that the kiss was rehearsed numerous tines during an interview. Drake confirmed that fact on his Instagram and said he reacted that way because Madonna surprised him by using lipbalm that tasted nasty

R180 Madonna was extremely conservative from around 1995-2008, the sexiest thing she did was the Hung Up video during that period and she was respected

R182, which makes her complaining about being called names during her career more perplexing. She thinks she was left alone because she was off the market when it was really because she wasn't putting her body parts on public display. I didn't think Madonna lacked this much self awareness.

Debbie Harry was so much more beautiful than Madonna could ever be. Mado must have been jealous.

R184 UM not really. It was because of Madonna always mentioning Deborah Harry as an influence and Blondie that I started listening to them

Harry has said that she met Madonna numerous times and that Madonna was "always sweet and kind towards me", she said she was surprised when out of the blue Madonna invited her to her 35th birthday party in 1993 and Harry went and Madonna was going around with Harry and telling everyone that "this is my musical idol" Harry also said that "Madonna has always mentioned me as an influence and I respect the acknowledgment however a paycheck from her would be nice!"

A few years back Harry said that "I like Madonna, but sometimes I do think to myself that I should of had her career, but no I had to give too involved with the drugs and my personal live life and I lost focus and then Madonna came along on MTV almost the exact moment I was in rehab and the rest is history ".

R159 not true about Gwen Stefani, Gwen herself has said that Madonna had always been sweet to her and when she was married to Gavin Rossdale and Madonna to Guy they had dinner quite a few times over each others houses

Gwen is her 4th cousin or something too believe it or not.

Give Camille some credit for finally realizing what the rest of us knew all along.

R187 um Camille has been trashing her since the mid 90s when it became abundantly clear that despite the fact that Paglia WORSHIPPED her, Madonna wouldn't even agree to MEET her.

She's a bitter dyke now but what's interesting in that Paglia wrote a very pro Madonna piece and anti Miley piece for Time magazine just 3 years ago

She's bipolar when it comes to her Madonna obsession.

Camille actually wrote a damned good statement. Succinct and spot on .

She loved the Madonna of 30 years ago.

R190 yeah when she thought she might have a chance with her

But again she wrote a very pro Madonna piece as recently as 2013

So take it with a grain of salt

[quote]Drake new

Oh dear.

Its a middling critique, Paglia's. However, she got Dietrich's end wrong. Dietrich disappeared for over a decade at the end. Friends who did visit her report a horror show.

Dietrich stayed in bed in her Paris apartment for the last 13 years of her life, swilling scotch all day. It was quite a sad end.

[quote]Friends who did visit her report a horror show.

So she is following in Dietrich's footsteps.

Maybe, but Paglia twisted the comparison for her argument. Weak scholarship. Everyone knows Dietrich was fab until she wasn't. A good deal longer fab than Madonna, true.

Dietrich has a famous quote about Madonna where she says "I PLAYED vulgar, she is vulgar " But then went on to say that "Madonna puts on an impeccable (stage) show, the public never makes a mistake! "

Poor Deb Harry. I recall from the big recession we had in early 80s ( oil dropped down to $9/bl) and everyone was losing their jobs, there was talk about how the recession was hurting the music industry. Poor Deb became the emblematic flag of the recession because she had to cancel her tour due to low ticket sales (no job, no $$ for tickets!)

Years later in the early 2000s--and you Cajuns can confirm this for me--washed up Deb Harry ended up being the "big act" on New Year's Eve at a crummy gay bar on Bourbon Street in New Orleans' French Quarter on a stage about as large as a VW bug. Sad.

Reading the last half of this thread, which seemed to have intensified as a debate between two or three people, I'm left with the conclusion that

1. Madonna is a bona fide legend, but sort of a "has-been" (in terms of acclaim and influence, but not money, which apparently to some is the most important thing), and regardless of legend and has-been status, she's definitely currently ridiculous.

2. Camille Paglia was considerably correct, but not completely.

3. But, Paglia herself is a has-been AND ridiculous so the critique shouldn't come from her.

I don't think Madonna is passe at all. She JUST WON Billboard's Woman Of The Year Award last week. Here are some of her other Billboard awards given to her lately.

MadonnaBillboard Music AwardsAwards Top Touring Artist 2013 Winner Top Dance Artist 2013 Winner Top Dance Album 2013 · MDNA Winner Billboard Music Artist Achievement Award 1996 Winner Top Touring Artist 2016 Nominee Hot Dance Sales Single of the Year 2004 · Nothing Fails Nominee Hot Dance Sales Single of the Year 2004 · Love Profusion Nominee Adult Contemporary Single of the Year 1995 · Take A Bow Nominee

I don't think Madonna is passe at all. She JUST WON Billboard's Woman Of The Year Award last week. Here are some of her other Billboard awards given to her lately.

MadonnaBillboard Music AwardsAwards Top Touring Artist 2013 Winner

Top Dance Artist 2013 Winner

Top Dance Album 2013 · MDNA Winner

Billboard Music Artist Achievement Award 1996 Winner

Top Touring Artist 2016 Nominee

Hot Dance Sales Single of the Year 2004 · Nothing Fails Nominee

Hot Dance Sales Single of the Year 2004 · Love Profusion Nominee

Adult Contemporary Single of the Year 1995 · Take A Bow Nominee

Look, I like Madonna, always have, but are you guys seriously citing things like People magazine and the CURRENT incarnation of Billboard as some sort of proof of anything.

DL goes apeshit when mainstream publications, media and organizations elevate artists they deem unworthy over artists they KNOW are better and should therefore deserve more acclaim and recognition.

It's so hypocritical. "Rolling Stone is bullshit, except when they rank Madonna high on lists."

I'm 32 and I don't think of Madonna at 58 as being "old" at all. I really don't think younger people do either.

If she still was able to release music that resonated with people, I don't think all this sexism/ageism stuff would be an issue.

If Madonna had a hot song, it'd get play.

So while she can be tacky and tasteless and lost her ability to tap into the zeitgeist, but not OMG SHE'S OLD!!!! I know plenty of sexy, fit, non-embarrassing 58 year olds.

[quote] In fact, Madonna has a bunch of albums and singles that are undercertified, so her actual record sales are higher than the reportrd number

Welcome to the era of "Post-Truth."

She looked nice in Love Profusion

Janet has LOTS of undercertified albums, too! Lots and Lots! Don't forget about Janet!

Can we get back too old Dietrich?

R207, what utter crap! You elders love that shit?

Hag in a black leather jacket.

R207, um, what the hell did the hell did I just watch?

R203 not true, in fact NO SINGLE in the history of music released by a 58 year old woman was a ever a big hit on the charts. That's a fact

Madonna is smart by sticking to touring and albums and BARELY releasing singles anymore . Streisand and Cher do the same thing

In fact only 4 women in music history over the age of 50 have managed to have a top 10 hit on the Billboard Hot 100

Tina Turner with I Don't Want To Fight in 1993. Streisand and that Bryan Adams duet in 1997. Cher with Believe in 1999 and Madonna with Give Me All Your Luvin in 2012

Well, Camille did always say that her fashion icon was Keith Richards.

I think Madonna MIGHT have had a few hits in her 50s if she were signed with a real record company with a promotions department. She signed with a touring company instead that doesn't have a radio promotions department and now complains she won't get played on the radio. Real smart that Madonna.

Alors, ca?

To me, it seems like Camille is one of those people who makes her living on the backs of other hard working people.

Really, what has Camille contributed to society or the American spirit compared to Madonna?

Madonna still has #1 single after #1 single on the dance singles chart but if it's not a big hit in the Billboard Hot 100 it doesn't count.

Bitch I'm Madonna, as cheesy as that song was, did huge numbers on VEVO and is the most watched music video on there for an over 50 year old artist of all time with about 225 million views to date.

R213, Madonna saw where the real money lays and made the correct decision.

eh bien plus

Madonna will get her 1 billion finally, for there's that.

R214, you are mistaken.

That was Lily Tomlin in a SNL sketch, circa 1976.

J. Baker? M. Dietrich?

This thread is going off the rails. What else is new?

I think "Bitch I'm Madonna" is a fun song to listen to!

We're posting them for comparison purposes, doll.

[quote] And at least Jason Gould isn't a proto-douchebag like Rocco or a fat tranny mess like that thing that popped out of Cher's vagina and keeps typing its name.

You're right. He does absolutely nothing except live on his trust fund. How proud his mother must be!

R213 Warners bent over backwards and even lavished her with gifts like carat gold watches throughout 2007 in hopes that she would resign with them

The record breaking $120 million offer from Live Nation was too good to be true

I remember reading in the New York Times all the insane ass kissing and gift giving Warners did to get her to resign with them.

well

Trust me man, this Camilla chick knows her shit !

But isn't that what most "cultural critics" do, R215 - live off the backs of others. They don't do anything but write about the people who actually do something. I don't think that's a crime. I enjoy well-written cultural critiques , though Paglia's comments on Madonna at issue here are mundane.

Paglia had her moment - granted it was in the narrow sphere of academia and among the population who reads cultural critics. But, she was sort of a "thing"; wrote a few books that got talked about and which were, at least, interesting even if you didn't agree with everything.

But, no, she probably has not contributed anything to the "spirit of America" given her limited audience. But, that's most people who achieve anything - moderately sized fish in a small pond.

I don't really agree with her here, but I have no problem with the fact that she does what she does. I don't want to be one of those people who insists people should shut up if I don't agree with them.

Discussed earlier this year.

She made me do this to my hair !!

I'm a Madonna fan, but it must CRUSH her to look at Rocco and think, "That ugly thing came out of me?"

Paglia is a genius. Sexual Personae shows more insight and invention than any of you braindead cunts in this forum.

Rocco isn't "ugly" just a normal chav. His dad was never handsome in my opinion.

R217, are you saying Madonna wouldn't have made hundreds of millions from her tours if she hadn't signed with Live Nation? Because she was already hauling in the concert money before she signed with them. All she did afterwards was tour more often and raise her ticket prices. She didn't need to sign with them to figure out that would make her more money. She sacrificed promotion machinery for I don't know what.

Madonna looked for support from her peers. Camille isn't a peer. My favorite female artist at the time was eXene who disparaged Madonna as a sex toy insult, but on the level of punk/poet, Madonna could not compare. It was only later that her visual artistry improved. She had a Jersey Shore vibe about her in the beginning - as did Mariah Carey. WTF would Whitney Houston want to hang w her back then? Wave of the future, sure, but not necessarily an improvement, more a harbinger of Kardashian doom.

[quote]Janet has LOTS of undercertified albums, too! Lots and Lots! Don't forget about Janet!

....

....

*Sex toy insult who coopted her catholic imagery..,though I'm sure every downtown punkette had that going on.

....

Oh God, Janbot showed up. Now the thread is officially derailed. No more Paglia and Madonna, but yet another attempt at Madonna vs. Janet.

Just block the janbot.

R238 you do realize that Madonna has won 39 Billboard awards, more than any other artist Madonna just never bothered to show up to collect them most of the time

She won 7 in 1985 alone and her publicist accepted on her behalf.

....

R243/R244, I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but Billboard themselves say otherwise. The Billboard Music Awards didn't even exist before 1990.

Acts With the Most Billboard Music Award Wins (1990-2016) (As of May 2016):

Taylor Swift, 21 Garth Brooks, 19 Adele, 18 Usher, 18 Whitney Houston, 16 Justin Bieber, 15 Mariah Carey, 14 R. Kelly, 12 Rihanna, 12 Lil Jon, 11 (includes six with East Side Boyz) 50 Cent, 10 Mary J. Blige, 10 Destiny's Child, 10 Eminem, 10 Janet Jackson, 10 Carrie Underwood, 10

The sad truth to Madonna haters is Madonna can never be TRULY over or has been because quite simply she's too damn rich and has her hand and investments involved in so many different projects that constantly generate money for her. Her manager Guy Oseary is regarded as one of the top managers in the business

When a celebrity has enough money as Madonna, reported in the $700 million to 1.1 BILLION range not including her investments like her fine art collection, and only a few in the business do, you can CREATE and bankroll you're own projects , the basic rules of being a celebrity for hire no longer apply because she's also a mogul and is in charge of the hiring too.

She's a "brand" and part of the "established " the "Hollywood jew mafia"

In fact most people don't know that MAVERICK, the company she founded in the early 90s continues to produce movies and soundtracks and despite the fact that Madonna left the company in 2004 as part of her departure it was stipulated that Madonna would still receive a percentage of the gross profits for anything that MAVERICK produces AFTER she left the company

So Madonna 's manager, who atill runs MAVERICK, produced the Hungry Games movies and soundtracks under MAVERICK and Madonna gets a percentage of the profits generated from the Hungry Games franchise even though she has NOTHING to do with the production of those films. Although Guy, her manager, did want Madonna to do songs for the soundtrack and she declined

Also Madonna and JayZ OWN Vita Loco Cocunut Water along with 2 non famous business men, so everytime you buy that water you're putting money into her pocket

Madonna even hired Rihanna as the official spokesperson in Europe for the water

R245 the awards did exist prior to 1990 but it was a small affair and it wasn't televised

Billboard started giving out year end awards for the charts in 1980

In 1990 it went from being a small setting to a huge FOX TV broadcast proper awards show

I loved me them Hungry Games movies.

R247, well clearly Billboard distinguishes what they've done since 1990 from before, because they regard Swift as the artist with the most wins, even though Madonna has by far the most actual chart wins overall.

Madonna is also known in the music industry for buying the publishing rights for hit songs by other artists and WHORING those songs out in commercials and films and maximizing profit for herself while the artists themselves only receive a 1 check lumpsome from Madonna 's publishing company

The irony is that Madonna would never allow her own songs to be used for commercials because that's beneath her but she'll gladly whore out other artists songs

I remember reading in USA Today adter Montell Jordan 's This is How We Do It overtook her Take a Bow as the #1 song on the charts that Madonna can't get too many because she own the publishing rights to TIHWDI! as well as TAB.

[quote] So Madonna 's manager, who atill runs MAVERICK, produced the Hungry Games movies and soundtracks under MAVERICK and Madonna gets a percentage of the profits generated from the Hungry Games franchise even though she has NOTHING to do with the production of those films.

Yes, the Hungry Games. lol

Madonna has nothing to do with Maverick, you moron.

[quote] Tina Turner with I Don't Want To Fight in 1993. Streisand and that Bryan Adams duet in 1997. Cher with Believe in 1999 and Madonna with Give Me All Your Luvin in 2012

Except Madonna bought her's with a weekend radio deal through Live Nation and gave the song away with pre-orders on iTunes. Oops.

Madonna owns Yoko Ono. Or is it the other way around? But Queen Elizabeth owns the one who owns the other, however. They are all lizard people and illuminati. My bff Trump told me and he is Illuminati and he hates Beyonce. I'm going to do a fashion line with Madonna with named boutiques in Scion hotels.

R251 you realized Madonna created the company in 1992 with her then manager Freddy Demann?

In 2004 Madonna sold her shares in the company although her new manager Guy Oseary was now running the company with her

When Madonna was at MAVERICK she signed Alanis Moreissette and Michelle Branch and produced movies like Canadian Bacon, John Candy's last film

She came up with the name by adding her and Freddy's names together. MA- Madonna, VE-Veronica her confirmation name and RICK for FredeRICK DeMann her then manager

Look it up moron

R252 even with that deal, Give Me All Your Luvin still made it to #2 on the sales chart. It's success in the top 10 was still based primarily on its single sales. Airplay never made it higher than #25

R254 must be Rosie Odonnell. The obsessive insanity fits.

Funny parody of Madonna and her fear of aging.

that's unbearable

After having NOTHING to do with Maverick since 2004, aside from being a founding member of the company and receiving future profits including the Twilight series which is produced by Maverick films as well, Madonna rejoined Maverick sort of, her and her manager Guy Oseary founded Maverick Management in 2015, their list of acts under their management umbrella includes Miley Cyrus, Britney Spears, Sir Paul MCCartney and most recently Shania Twain who signed with Madonna 's Maverick Management company this past September

Google "Shania Twain Madonna Maverick " and a bunch of articles pop up

I'm starting to think that Madonna really is part of the illuminati

Fifth Harmony, Darius Rucker and Amy Schumer are also signed to Madonna 's Maverick Management, so Madonna gets a percentage of their profits as part of the Maverick Management team.

No wonder Madonna keeps promoting and pushing the insufferable Amy Schumer.

At least she doesn't participate in these horror shows. W. T. F.

I pity them BOTH!!!

Obviously, we must make Madonna make her 1040 open for the world to view! We can accept nothing less.

I like Madonna and it benefits all of Western Society if she continues being successful at her age. I think she has broken a lot of glass ceilings in the professional world. But I think of her more as being a highly-effective CEO, brand manager, and project management expert.

She used to be obsessive about spotting trends, learning about various fields, and perfecting her craft. I think motherhood and/or diminishing interest due to already having a huge amount of cash made her less inclined to keep up.

Case in point, her inability to properly utilize social media has been pretty damaging to her image/brand. Posting weird things about her son, random photos of herself in grills, etc.

Bizarre thought, but hiring Kris Jenner wouldn't be a bad idea. Kris is the MASTER of how to use ALL social media (FB, instagram, Twitter, etc) to get positive press and $$$$$.

I imagine Madonna has had terrible trauma dealing with the fact she's only got a million twitter followers and all those Vine social media celebrities have like 80 million followers each.

R264 well she was really late to twitter.. she didn't have an official account until a couple years ago

OMG this thread made me bring up "Hard Candy" on Spotify. It's actually a really good, fun album. Justin did a great job writing it with her.

I trashed it back in the day, mostly because the cover art was so crude and cheap looking.

However, I do feel like this album was when she lost her hold on pop culture and started devolving and doing the bitchy/sassy/desperate thing whereas before with "Confessions" she didn't seem to give a fuck and just put out music she thought was good.

This thread is pointless, the ONLY reason why Paglia is criticizing Madonna is because Madonna refused to even meet with her, numerous times, back in the 90s. A few years back she wrote a piece PRAISING Madonna and trashing Miley Cyrus for Time magazine. Very bipolar

Secondly Madonna can never truly be a has been or washed up because she's way too rich, she can buy herself into anything, and she's way too invested financially in the business. Do you think that she doesn't invest her money? Really people

A few years back Madonna and her manager, a rich Jew named Guy Oseary who has become a billionaire and one of the top managerz in the business, co founded Maverick Management with Madonna putting up $50 million of her own money as an investor and cofounder. Guy brought in 9 other top entertainment managers in his quest to create the #1 management agency in Hollywood

Madonna doesn't do the hands on management herself but as an investor she gets a percentage out of all profits generated by Maverick Management clients

Among those clients are Paul MCCartney, Miley Cyrus, Amy Schumer (no wonder Madonna has been promoting the hell out of her these last 2 years ), Britney Spears, Nicki Minaj and most recently Shania Twain

If you buy anything from these artists you're putting more money into Madonna's bank account

That's why she's known for being a "shrewd businesswoman "

If Madonna wanted another hit bad enough she can just call up Miley and be like "Yo cunt lets do this".

Money IS power.

R267 - no wonder Nicki is on so many of her albums multiple times.

Also Madonna and Guy O's joint piat Oscar party has become THE post Oscar party to attend because they keep it private and allown no pictures or video. The A list loves that

A few years back, Madonna did the lambada with Taylor Swift at the party

Madonna is really good friends with Leonardo DiCaprio, who Madonna told Billboard magazine in their recent "Madonna Woman of The Year " cover story, spent the weekend at one of her homes earlier this year . Madonna is also close with Anne Hathaway and James Franco.

Younger Hollywood loves Madonna and along with Guy she's invested in them as well.

Even Forbes, who has named Madonna the wealthiest female singer of all time numerous times, still has no idea how much she's REALLY worth because she has a ton of investments that Madonna keeps secret and doesn't talk about to the press, she's in bed with a lot of big companies and organizations.

Most people don't know that Madonna is one of the world's top collectors of fine art, with an art college valued at just over $100 million alone, including original Davinci and Frida Kahlo paintings among others

Even her brother Christopher when promoting his rather negative tell all book on Madonna on Howard Stern in 2008 claimed that Madonna was well over billionaire status because of "her investments " and that he's "seen the books". And that was in 2008, since then she herself has made over $500 million according to Forbes magazine and that doesn't include the money generated by her investments whixh Forbes doesn't know and doesn't have access to.

Here's one great big eye rolling who gives a fuck to the drivel posted by R269.

R270 than so are Oprah and Speilberg who are also super rich and can buy their way into anything

And by the way, Madonna has been called a has been or over or irrelevant by haters consistently since 1985, this is nothing new.

Despite being the biggest selling female artist in the history of music worldwide, Madonna has never been universally loved by the masses. She wouldn't have it any other way. She LOVES being polarizing. Even in her Billboard Women of the Year award acceptance speech .

R271, re-read R270.

The Camille/Madonna feud is like watching two dung beetles duke it out in a pool of urine.

R272 despite EVIDENCE to the contrary and reread R271, she has always been called that by haters

I have a feeling Arianna Grande and James Corden will be the next 2 artists to be signed by Maverick Management because Madonna has been chunmy with them recently. Arianne has even said multiple times that her dream is too record with Madonna

I can see her getting signed up to her management company and then Madonna record a song with her that becomes a big hit on the charts, with Madonna becoming the oldest wiman in Billboard history to have a big hit on the Hot 100

It's just something Madonna would do

By the way Billboard magazine just named Madonna the #14 top selling female artist of 2016 in the US despite the fact that she didn't release any new music this year, based on her back catalogue sales and her tour which ran from January -March 2016. She sold more this year than people like Nicki Minaj, Katy Perry and Lady Gaga. And more than Streisand, who did have a new album out. Interesting...

R273 not really a feud, Madonna could care less, in fact she probably doesn't even know what Paglia said.

Her people keep things from her

could NOT care less

R264 thats because she never tweets, she tweeted like 10 times in the last 4 years. I'm one of her biggest fans and don't follow her on Twitter. If she cared so much she would Tweet daily. I think even she forgot that she has a Twitter. It was only started by her record company for the MDNA album, I don't think that Madonna has actually ever sent out a Tweet herself.

You can certainly be a "has been" in entertainment even if you're rich. I'm not getting that argument. I'm not arguing one way or the other as to her "has been" status. I just find it odd to say that artist who is rich can't be a has been.

[quote]You can certainly be a "has been" in entertainment even if you're rich. I'm not getting that argument. I'm not arguing one way or the other as to her "has been" status. I just find it odd to say that artist who is rich can't be a has been.

She IS a hasbeen. R274, etc. has his head so far up Madonna's ass that he knows what she had for breakfast last week.

[quote]I can see her getting signed up to her management company and then Madonna record a song with her that becomes a big hit on the charts, with Madonna becoming the oldest wiman in Billboard history to have a big hit on the Hot 100

Lol. Chris Christie will loose 100 pounds, buff his body and model men's swimsuits before Madonna has another hit single.

R278 I'm not saying an article that's simply rich, I'm saying someone as rich as Madonna

There's a HUGE DIFFERENCE between being worth $50-100 million than being worth over $1 BILLION and having a vast investment portfolio including putting up $50 million of your own money to start an entertainment management conglomerate. You become an industry onto yourself and the more money you have the more power and clout you have and the more resources you have to stay successful and make more money.

It's very telling that several female artists that were called "the new Madonna " have been signed up to her management company. Very manipulative and calculated on Madonna's part.

And Madonna is the most successful over 40 year old female artist on the charts in 2016 according to Billboard DESPITE not releasing new material this year. She had more chart success than Katy Perry who DID release an official Olympics single that tanked this year. If Madonna 's a has been what does that make the others???

^^Hasbeens who aspire to be as big a hasbeen as Madonna.

R280 bullshit. If Madonna wanted it bad enough, she has the connections and the money, if she wanted it bad enough, she could pay out of her own pocket for a big radio deal to make sure the song gets radio play.

But I actually don't think Madonna wants it because there's very little money to be made off of single sales these days. Beyonce seems to agree since she doesn't have big hits anymore either, her last big hit was that Gaga duet in 2010. Beyonce and her label don't push for radio play anymore. It's all about touring and branding yourselves nowadays.

Oh please. Is this the same Madonna who was recently banned by the BBC? Who hasn't been anywhere near the Hot 100 since forever, despite working her last album and it's singles into the ground? Keep dreamin'.

R284 um last single, released last June 2015 made it to #83 on the Hot 100 and #1 on the dance charts.

Madonna is the ONLY over 50 female artist who can still chart on the Hot 100 singles chart, it's a statistical fact

Madonna was also the oldest woman in Billboard history to chart on the Hot 100

R284 and furthermore BBC Radio 1 didn't play her new stuff because they appeal to listeners in the 12-29 year old demographic but BBC Radio 2 , which appeals to older listeners did. Ghosttown was a sizable hit on BBC Radio 2

Madonna and her back catalogue are still one the most played at radio in the UK year after year, so you're point was?

R282 speaking of Prince, he was a cerified has been, like Michael Jackson, at the time of his death. He hadn't even had a top 10 single since 1994! He fucked his career up in the 90s by coming out against Warners and going independent, Madonna always knew how to play the game

In fact when Prince was feuding with Warners in the 90s he wrote a personal letter to Madonna asking her to help him wth Warners because she had the clout and power to help Prince but by that time Prince did not. You can Google the letter

Madonna and Prince dated briefly in 1985 and Prince threw a private concert for Madonna and her tour dancers in Paisley Park as recently as last December, just 4 months before his death.

He also produced some songs on her critically acclaimed Like a Prayer album and played guitar on the Like a Prayer song.

If he had played the game and changed with the times like Madonna did, his career could have POSSIBLY been as big hers.

It must infuriate Jabba that so few people agree with her assessment that Madonna is "over".

[quote]Madonna is the ONLY over 50 female artist who can still chart on the Hot 100 singles chart, it's a statistical fact

No. Janet Jackson's No Sleeep entered at 67 and peaked at 63 on the Hot 100. She's 50.

Prince was an Oscar-winning musical genius. To even put him in the same sentence as Madonna is ridiculous, I don't care how many of her songs he played on, co-wrote, provided the single cover art for, whatever.

The rabid HAGdonna stan posting in here IS Camille!

Here's some interesting Billboard chart facts not necessarily related to Madonna

Madonna has more top 10 hits than any artist in chart history with 38

Madonna has more #1's on ALL Billboard charts combined (sibgles, albums, music videos ) than any artist in history something like 167.

Madonna is the only act to have a Billboard top 10 hit on the main HOT 100 in each of the last 4 decades, 80s , 90s, 2000s and 2010s. No other act from the 80s has hit the top 10 on the HOT 100 this decade.

With 46 #1 dance singles, Madonna has the most #1's on any ONE chart in Billboard history, next up is George Strait who had 44 #1 singles on the country chart

Madonna became the oldest female artist ever to chart on the HOT 100 when Bitch I'm Madonna charted in July 2015 weeks shy of her 57th birthday.

Bruce Springsteen never had a #1 single on the HOT 100

Cher, Dolly Parton, Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner NEVER had a #1 selling album on the main Billboard 200 albums chart. In fact Cher also never had a #2 selling album either.

Barbra Streisand leads all women by having the most #1 selling albums on the Billboard 200 with 11 out of the over 100 albums she released, Madonna is second with 8 #1 selling albums out of the 20 plus she's released. Madonna also has a further 6 #2 peaking albums, more than amy other female artist, giving Madonna a whopping 14 #1 or #2 peaking albums in her career, versus Cher who has ZERO #1 or #2 peaking albums in her career. But she's a legend too. No hate.

BITCH, I'M A HASBEEN!!

R289 yes but Janet was 49 when No Sleep was released when Madonna was 49 she released the #3 peaking 4 Minutes, which spent 11 weeks at #1 on the worldwide singles charts. It sold 6 million worldwide, 3 million in the US alone.

R290 Yes Prince was a genius and Madonna was a big fan I'm just pointing out the FACTS that Prince wrote a letter to Madonna in the 90s asking her to help him in his dealings with Warners and Madonna did help him, she's not such a bitch after all. Madonna has also sold more than THREE times as many records as him and remained among the top 5 selling musical acts worldwide for 3 decades (80s, 90, 2000s) Prince did not and his career never recovored from the early 90s.

Looks like Madonna had a golden moment. Hey, at least it's a new-ish look for the old prune.

Meanwhile, Paglia is still relevant, evidenced by her erudite appearance at the Batte of Ideas!

Paglia, not Madonna, is the true friend of the gay man.

Looks like Madonna had a golden moment. Hey, at least it's a new-ish look for the old prune.

Meanwhile, Paglia is still relevant, evidenced by her erudite appearance at the Batte of Ideas!

Paglia, not Madonna, is the true friend of the gay man.

Madonna is a talentless old whore who can't sing, can't act, can't dance and can't direct. Pure trash.

Some more Billboard facts:

1st woman to have 5 consecutive Billboard 200 #1 albums

1st woman to debut a single in the Hot 100 top 10

One of only three artists (along with Bruce Springsteen and Michael Jackson) to have an album prouduce 7 top 10 hits--the only artists to achieve this feat in the '80s

The most successful debut tour in history

The only artist to achieve 7 top 5 hits from one album

The only artist to have three Hot 100 #1s come from a single album in three separate calendar years

Along with Bruce Springsteen and Barbra Streisand, the only artist to have a #1 album in each of the last four decades

1st woman to have a #1 album during the SoundScan era

1st artist to have a Hot 100 #1 in the '80s, the '90s and the 2000s

Of all the musical acts to come from her family, she's spent the most time at #1

1st female to win a Grammy for a long-form video

1st female artist to produce six top 40 hits on the Billboard Hot 100 from a single album

In 1986, became the youngest artist since Stevie Wonder to have a Hot 100 #1

In 2001, became the first artist to have a song added to every pop, urban, and rhythmic radio format within its first week of release

Madonna's Bitch I'm Madonna video is the most viewed video ever released by an over 50 artist on VEVO with nearly 225 million views to date

Madonna and Janet Jackson are the ONLY artists to have a #1 single during the 80s, 90s and 2000s on the Billboard HOT 100

Madonna is the #2 Billboard HOT 100 all time artist and the most successful solo artist in history behind only The Beatles at #1

Madonna has the #1 and #2 highest grossing tours of all time by a female artist with her2008-2098 Sticky and Sweet Tour ($408 million ) and her 2012 MDNA tour ($300 million ), they also rank among the highest grossing tours in music history with Sticky and Sweet coming in at #5 overall.

According to Forbes not only is Madonna the richest female artist ever but more interestingly she's the highest earning female artist from 2000 ONWARDS followed by Beyonce and Celine Dion.

Madonna was the #3 selling album artist worldwide during the 2000s (2000-2009) behind Eminem and Britney Spears, Madonna was also the #1 selling singles artist in both the US and worldwide during the 2000s and the #3 top grossing touring artist of the 2000s behind U2 and The Rolling Stones who both did more shows than her.

Madonna is the #1 selling female artist in the UK for the 80s, 90s and 2000s. 3 decades.

Madonna was also the most played female artist on UK radio during the 2000s

And Madonna appeared on more front covers of the UK tabloids during the 2000s than anyone else, earning her the nickname "Queen of the tabloids ".

Yass

R37, you are a fool. Should I tout how much Cheetos sell to prove they're an amazing snack? Hot Cheetos was the #1 snack food among 18-24 year olds in 2008!!!

Madonna is beyond pathetic and her defenders are beyond the pale. Madonna probably couldn't read one page of Glittering Images nevermind understand Paglia's ideas. If you're anti-Paglia for some weird reason you're probably a touchy dummy who has no sense of humor and no appreciation of culture and art history. Try reading one of her books. She's sharp, erudite and witty, a lesbian Hitch.

Fuck this hag-worshipping thread. I'm better off reading a book. Peace, cunts!

R37, you are a fool. Should I tout how much Cheetos sell to prove they're an amazing snack? Hot Cheetos was the #1 snack food among 18-24 year olds in 2008!!!

Madonna is beyond pathetic and her defenders are beyond the pale. Madonna probably couldn't read one page of Glittering Images nevermind understand Paglia's ideas. If you're anti-Paglia for some weird reason you're probably a touchy dummy who has no sense of humor and no appreciation of culture and art history. Try reading one of her books. She's sharp, erudite and witty, a lesbian Hitch.

Fuck this hag-worshipping thread. I'm better off reading a book. Peace, cunts!

In 1985 Like a Virgin became the first album in history by a female artist to hit the 5 million sales mark in the US on its way to 10 million sales in the US alone and 21 million worldwide , making it the biggest selling album by a female artist of all time until...

Madonna released her follow up album True Blue in 1986 which eclipsed Like a Virgin 's 21 million worldwide sales by selling 25 million worldwide. TB is the world's top selling album of 1986 and the top selling album of the entire 80s decade released by a female artist.

True Blue is also the first album in history to have 5 #1 singles on the United World Singles Chart. ALL 5 singles released went to #1 on the worldwide charts

Madonna beat the Beatles record by having the most consecutive top 5 singles by any artist with 16 between 1984 and 1989.

The Immaculate Collection is the biggest selling greatest hits album released by a solo artist in history with over 32 million sold worldwide. It has logged a combined 400 (!) plus weeks on the combined Billboard 200 and catalog albums charts.

Madonna is the female artist with the most albums that have sold 20 million or more worldwide, she has 4, Like a Virgin (1984) 21 million, True Blue (1986) 25 million, The Immaculate Collection (1991) 32 million and Ray of Light (1998) 20 million. They are among the top 100 biggest selling albums of all time worldwide.

Her 1991 documentary Truth or Dare became at the time of its release the highest grossing documentary in history at the box office

Her 1992 SEX book became the fastest selling book of all time, it's still the biggest selling coffee table book in publishing history.

Her 1990 single Vogue became the first single released by a woman to sell over 2 million copies in the US alone.

Yes, we all know about Madonna's career accomplishments in the past. But her music has been lackluster for at least a decade and she looks pathetic still dressing like a 20 year-old whore at her age.

R304 actually her last album Rebel Heart IS her best and best reviewed album since Confessions. A real return to form. I do agree that Hard Candy and MDNA were lackluster for Madonna standards

RH appeared on many major critics lists for the best albums of 2015

Also the much older Cher and Dolly Parton, who's like 100 and still has her tits hanging out, dress like whores too. It's only a problem if Madonna does it???

Dolly and Cher are "in on the joke," so to speak. They know they look outrageous. Madonna thinks she's a hot piece of ass that 25 year-old guys want to fuck. Her delusions are why people make fun of her.

R306 Bitch I'm Madonna song and video was Madonna taking the piss and making fun of herself, Madonna herself said in interviews that "no one can take the song seriously and I'm quite obviously making fun of myself ".

Madonna has had more of a sense of humor in the last few years, during a behind the scenes video on her Cosmopolitan 50th anniversary magazine cover shoot, Madonna was making jokes with the photographer about her age and that "I'm older than this magazine, I'm older than everybody! ", she would of never done that in 2010.

And no disrespect to Cher or Dolly, whom I'm fine with, but you all know that they would kill to have the career that Madonna has had these last 5 years, an additional $250 million income per Forbes, more millions of records sold, nearly $500 million in tour grosses for her last 2 tours. Major magazine covers and spreads (Harper's Bazaar twice, V, New York, Interview twice, Rolling Stone twice, Cosmopolitan, L'uomo Vogue, Love, The Advocate, Mojo, Billboard etc).

I think Dolly and Cher are fine being mega-millionaires and having nice lives away from the spotlight. Not everybody wants to be a workaholic mogul who does nothing but think about making money 24/7.

Nobody really paid attention to that Bitch I'm Madonna song. What Madonna is most well-known for to the general public these days is showing up at events in totally ridiculous outfits and still flashing her tits and ass in people's faces. It just looks pathetic.

I agree with Paglia about how Madonna missed the boat about aging gracefully, and it's ironic because her idol is Marlene Dietrich. Dietrich stayed fierce well into her later years, but did it with class.

You let down your people, Madonna/You were supposed to have been immortal/That's all they wanted. Not much to ask for/But in the end, you could not deliver

R309 actually Dietrich's later years were a horror show according to people who knew her.

Madonna did send Dietrich tickets to her Blond Ambition tour in 1990 and Dietrich went in a wheelchair and while she was no big Madonna fan, she praised her show and was quoted afterwards as saying, "I played vulgar, Madonna IS vulgar, but she puts on an impeccable stage show, the public never makes a mistake! "

Speaking of Dolly Parton, there's an interesting story in brother Christopher's 2008 tell all book, Life With My Sister Madonna, he says that he was hired to direct a video for Dolly in 1997 and Dolly was very sweet but kept asking me about Madonna, finally Dolly came in with an idea that her and Madonna should record an album together, an album with 12 songs, 6 of them would be Dolly singing Madonna and the other 6 Madonna singing Dolly. Christopher said that when he met up with Madonna a few weeks later he told Madonna that Dolly was a big fan of hers and told her Dolly's idea about them working together and Madonna was like "Really? I'll think about it" rather dismissively and just rolled her eyes, which Christopher said is Madonna code for "aint no way in hell that that's gonna happen" and he never brought the idea up again to her.

Haters need to read his book, so many great stories on Madonna's absolute need for complete control and power and cuntiness.

Plus Christopher alleges that Madonna used her connections and money to destroy a number of rising female pop artists careers.

Madonna even blackmailed her brother to attend her wedding to Guy Ritchie!

Dietrich did not go see Madonna's Blond Ambition tour, or anything else. She did not leave her apartment for the last 13 years of her life.

R312 She must of saw her perform on TV, Deitrich was quoted as saying that

In his book Christopher devotes a whole chapter to what he calls "The great butter dish incident of Thanksgiving 1996", where Madonna visits the family at home in Michigan for the holidays , shows everyone her newborn baby Lourdes, refuses to stop taking business calls that interrupt Thanksgiving dinner, and looses her shit when Christopher DARES to confront her over where the butter dish should be placed on the kitchen dinner! Madonna finally breaks the dish in a rage and tells Christopher "You're so weak!", while her family just sits there scared to say anything

The wire hanger scene in Mommie Dearest comes to mind

Her new for constant control and to always be in top in the book is EXHAUSTING

Also Christopher talks about how Madonna would make him fire people that worked for her and that Madonna would NEVER do it herself

He had to fire Gene Kelly, Madonna had hited the dance legend to choreograph a few numbers for her Girlie Show tour and it wasn't working out. One day Madonna pulled Christopher aside and was like "he has to go" and Christopher was like "you want me to fire Gene Kelly! " and Madonna was like "It's business, never let feelings get in the way of business". Christopher fired Gene and he died a few years later

Also Madonna overlooks EVERY hotel bill when on the road including the dining bills of her dancers, Madonna flipped when she discovered that one of her dancers ordered an extra dessert without getting permission first. Because of that Madonna made Christopher fire her because Madonna felt betrayed over the extra dessert!

R313, what bullshit!

R314 um I have the book and read it multiple times

It's ALL in there

There's lots more stories in there too including Madonna hiring Christopher for very little money to design Guy Ritchie 's office and Christopher wasn't allowed to make eye contract with his brother in law and had to refer to him as GR.

Doesn't make it true.

Oh, please, of course it's true. Others have told the same exact stories. Don't be moronic.

[quote]Madonna has had more of a sense of humor in the last few years, during a behind the scenes video on her Cosmopolitan 50th anniversary magazine cover shoot, Madonna was making jokes with the photographer about her age and that "I'm older than this magazine, I'm older than everybody! ", she would of never done that in 2010.

Link.

Madonna doesn't have an sense of humor. That's her problem. She takes herself way too seriously. She's a hallow individual and reeks of phoniness. She steals everyone else's ideas and presents them as her own and by the time she does them they're already outdated. She only struck gold a couple of times. When she started using bullied gay youth in her shows after Lady Gaga had done it in the most repulsive and transparent way possible, that was the final straw for people. People could overlook a lot of things if she had some decent tunes behind her. She doesn't now and hasn't since the 90s. She lives in a bubble.

When she did that mega flop "W.E.", she hired everyone off of "The King's Speech". This is how she always works. She thinks, "Well, all these people manages to get Oscars, I'll just hire them and it'll work for me. She doesn't understand that you need to have a shred of talent to start with. Her talent was taking off her clothes and having MTV backing her which other stars before her did not. Had MTV not existed, there would never have been a Madonna. Her lack of talent would have prevented her from ever having a career.

The internet and ancient homosexuals have extended her fame.

We should all be as irrelevant as Madonna!

And get involved with a cult, destroy our bodies, have kids that hate us, and be miserable? Why?

Half a billion dollar net worth, hardly tragic. Paglia could only dream about having a net worth that's 1% of Maddona's.

R323 Madonna has 4 kids, she's EXTREMELY close with 3 of them, the only kid that she's having a problem with is Rocco. He prefers to live with his dad in London because Madonna is "too strict " as a parent.

R324 her worth is actually a lot more than that, it's impossible for Forbes to know how much her investments make her annually, for instance her act collection alone is valued at over $100 million, Forbes doesn't count that.

R321 i always see college age people at her concerts and a HUGE chunk of her fanbase is people who are in theur mid 30s-to mid 40s now, people who grew up with her. While that's not really young, I would hardly call them "ancient ". Streisand, Cher, Bette and Liza, now they appeal to the "ancient gays".

R320 Madonna took $20 million of her own money to finance WE, it was a labor of love and never expected to be a big hit it was always "art house ' release. Madonna won another Golden Globe for writing the theme song and the costumes were nominated for an Oscar

While brings me to my next point, Madonna is regarded as one of the greatest songwriters in modern pop music. EVERYONE she worked with has praised her ability to come up with lyrics and her producing skills as an artist. She may not have the greatest voice but that is talent right there. How anyone can claim that in 2016, Madonna has no talent is simply mind blowing to me, her musicality alone... Even Pharrel has said that Madonna would be an amazing pop producer for other artists.

And your claim makes no sense because feom 1996-2006 Madonna had 4 massively successful eras, Evita, Ray of Light, Music and Confessions and aside from wearing a leotard in the Hung Up video, which did fit the theme of the video, Madonna was fully clothed and quite conservative during that time and she was selling shitloads of albums and winning Grammy awards left and right for NOT TAKING HER CLOTHES OFF. She even wrote a series of best selling children's books!

MTV helped Madonna for sure but MTV also helped Michael Jackson and the Thriller album and Prince became huge thanks to MTV as well, but he's a man so it's OK that he also took his clothes off and was quite provocative . The sexism and misogyny on here is insane.

The Confessions era of 2005-2006 was huge for Madonna and brought her a bunch of really young fans that the DL doesn't acknowledge. Her first 2 videos spent weeks at #1 on TRL, 13 year olds were discovering Madonna at that time

In fact my now 24 year old coworker who's OBSESSED with her, first became a fan when he was 13 and heard Hung Up. Last year he and a couple of his friends who ranged from age 19-22 went to see her Rebel Heart Tour.

OP, you are so fucking clueless if you genuinely think a lady who defined the pop landscape of the 80s and 90s; is emulated by all the late comers to the genre: Gwen Stefani, Britney Spears, Miley Cyrus, Pink, etc...; is worth around 800 million dollars is a has-been. Especially if are to compare her to that 'nobody'.

OP get a grip.

And again she's also the most critically acclaimed female artists in music history, just based on her albums and singles. You don't become the most critically acclaimed by having no talent.

The fact of the matter is that Madonna has made some truly outstanding albums that have revolutionized music and have stood the test of time. Not to mention her body of work as a video artist, she's regarded as having the best videos and her concert tours which has changed the way pop stars do tours

Her 1990 Blond Ambition tour still pops up on various lists as one of the greatest tours of all time with Madonna ALWAYS being the only woman on the list. Michael Jackson or Prince never had a tour that had as much impact or critical acclaim. That's a fact.

R319 I dare you to have a net worth of over 1/2 a billion dollars and to not take yourself seriously.

[quote]Prince became huge thanks to MTV as well, but he's a man so it's OK that he also took his clothes off and was quite provocative .

Were you even around in the 80s? Prince was basically the Antichrist, according to all of those conservative types, like the Moral Majority. He was a very controversial artist back then.

R327 exactly. What's even more funny is the fact that female artists you wouldn't expect have mentioned Madonna as an influence.

Amy Whinehouse mentioned in interviews that The Immaculate Collection was her musical bible and it inspired her in writing her own songs because "Madonna writes great fucking pop songs".

Last year Adele mentioned Ray of Light when asked what are her favorite albums ever. She called that album a "masterpiece that takes you to another place, another world".

Taylor Swift named her last album 1989, because not only was she born that year but that year was a great year for pop music in general according to Swift. She mentioned Madonna and her Like a Prayer album and called the LAP single "one of the greatest songs of all time"

She even did a Madonna homage photo shoot where she recreated poses that Madonna did for Herb Ritts in...1989 and was styled to look like Madonna did at the time.

Even Whitney Houston said in an Entertainment Tonight interview in the 90s that "Madonna is very creative " and "I'm a big fan". It's on YouTube

Madonna WAS great. But she's been an embarrassing old fucked-out whore for some time now.

R332 I agree that she's been embarrassing herself lately but her last album was her best in YEARS and her last tour was amazing

And the critics seem to agree

I would put Rebel Heart among her top 5 best albums alongside Like a Prayer, Erotica, Ray of Light and Confessions on a Dancefloor.

R332 she has earned it. She can do whatever she wants - she's Madonna. Period

The one who should watch herself is la Paglia.

[quote]She is turning into a horrifying combination of delusional, vampiric Norma Desmond and bitter Joan Crawford on the bottle.

She's not wrong.