Alcoholism

[quote]Eckhart Tolle says that all addiction begins in pain and ends in pain.

Well, that makes it all better. (Who?)

Was there a reason behind her alcoholism? It's usually not just the substance even if you are prone to addiction. (My coworker's parents both killed themselves after which she spiraled into depression and addiction, divorce, and finally death. Everyone was always trying to treat her addiction itself, but she didn't have a problem before the suicides.)

Yes R2, Absolutely. She was molested as a child and then had a very abusive relationship when she was 19 or 20. The guy was a straight up psycho.

Look to Jonathan Rhys Meyers...another year, another airport incident. What a waste of a life and talent. The guy is in it deep. As a fan, I can't wrap my head around how much he keeps fucking up. I can't imagine what the people in his life feel.

Sorry to hear about your friend, OP. The level of denial among alcoholics is crazy.

Irish DLounger R4?

[quote]Eckhart Tolle

Well that will kill her faster.

SIA might be helpful to her, there are in person and phone meetings. It could help with root cause. It has done wonders for a friend who speaks highly of it.

R6, nah, just reading DL and also read that bit about JRM on twitter.

Friend did a lot of phone meetings, said you can just listen and stay on mute even. Hope your friend learns to forgive and value herself OP.

So sad, R9.

yes very sad. One of my best friends is a functioning alcoholic. I have no idea how to help him, I have seen him when he is drunk, a completely different person. Guys, what is your opinion? He is the nicest guy when sober but a real asshole when drunk. So does the real person come out when they're drunk? I am torn on this.

No, R12, the real person does NOT come out when drunk. Alcohol poisons the brain. When someone is saturated in it, they become a different person. Sorry to read about your friend.

[quote]SIA might be helpful to her,

Given that she has six months to live, I doubt it will help all that much.

Could she turn things around if she stopped drinking, or is it too late?

When someone is experiencing substance-induced psychosis, either by meth, LSD, or artificial marijuana, we never for a second think that the person we see is the real person. It should be the same why when someone is high on alcohol, especially if heavily intoxicated. Alcohol is a drug, a very potent and dangerous one, that induces psychosis, a break with reality, even in small amounts.

It is too late R15- She is in hospital now in liver failure and being sent to a hospice type setting-

Initially they wanted to see if she could get better and stay sober for a year to qualify for liver transplant.

It will not be happening..

Oh, just 36 years old, that's very sad.

wow, I have never heard that before R16, so what about things people say when they're drunk, we don't take it seriously?

Alcoholism is also genetic right? So sad for your friend OP.

I have a neighbor (male, dorky and socially awkward, 52 years old, never married) invited his former co-worker to move in with him. Although she has family, including 4 grown children, who live close- she turned to my strange neighbor when she got kicked out of her apartment. She ( Lisa) has a multitude of health problems and was recovering from surgery when she moved in with "Tom". "Lisa" is 52 years old and has a nasty edge to her. She tries to come across as sweetness and light but she just can't sustain it around "Tom". You can tell when she was younger she was a looker, but now she just looks worn out. She has skinny legs with a bloated torso...and a tramp stamp.

She has taken over Tom's small house-she has cleaned it, decorated it, and nags him to get internet (he gets is internet via to free wi-fi hotspots instead). She also talks about what a bad housekeeper he is and how much he loves her cooking. I had the displeasure of being invited over for dinner. The first time was fine but the second time was terrible. Previously I have invited her out for dinner/drinks...this was before I realized she was an alcoholic. She can barely contain her contempt for Tom; this is understandable because he can be a little snit. Nonetheless, Tom is nice to her and she is a nasty piece of work. She plays lip service as to how she "appreciates" him, and that he is a "good" man.

I have realized that she used me for access to alcohol. Before I realized she was an alcoholic, I brought over wine for dinner (a hostess gift), I invited her out to dinner (of course I paid), and gave her lifts to the shopping center. In this shopping center was a liquor store, but she always requested a lift to another store in the shopping center, omitting the real reason for the trip.

Alcoholics are very manipulative; intellectually I understand it is the disease responsible for an alcoholic's bad behavior. Unless it is a SO, best friend, or immediate family member...walk away. If the SO, best friend, or immediate family member won't get help, create some distance and get help for yourself.

Lisa is pathetic: she is flat broke, no house, no car, and has never held a real job for any length of time. I believe she was a SAHM when she was younger and married. I can't imagine anyone wanting her now...except for awkward Tom, who is no prize himself.

What a crap situation all the way around, OP. There's nothing worse than wanting to help - but until they seek it, it's useless.

I work with a woman who is beautiful but starting to really feel the effects of excess drinking, drugs, cigarettes and eating disorders. She is 52 and starting to get sick very often. She did have a blackout spell and then go to AA but she quit. Her family just enables her. So does her boyfriend. I hate to see her go downhill because we are friends. It's terrible. I have food issues ltoo (I am an eater) but I have learned a lot of cautionary tales about moderation in the 8 years we have known each other.

Such a waste. All of it.

I have a nephew that has been recently hospitalized twice (or more) for pancreatic problems. He first went to rehab in 2004, but never stopped drinking for any sustained period, so I just assume he's still drinking unless informed, convincingly, otherwise. He just turned 40, when your body doesn't repair itself as quickly and completely as it does when you're younger.

I feel very helpless and sad about this. He doesn't live near me so I see him very, very rarely, but he's killing himself and that's awful to know. I feel bad for his mother, who has to watch it. His Dad died at age 49, from alcoholism related effects. It seems he's on the same track.

[quote]the real person does NOT come out when drunk. Alcohol poisons the brain.

BULLSHIT.

Alcohol can bring out a nasty side of your personality, but that side was already just under the surface to begin with. Alcohol lowers your inhibitions, it doesn't magically make a personality transplant.

R23, when a person is saturated with alcohol after months or years of daily drinking, it absolutely does bring out crap that is essentially not there otherwise. How could it not, it's poison? Sorry, but we'll just have to disagree on this.

R20 and R21 What you both are saying I completely understand.

I was pretty close with my friend in high school and we got reacquainted after college and we were both in our late 20's- early 30's. I am also very close with her older sister.

I did cut her off in 2011- completely. And now I feel just horrible that I stopped trying to help.

I cut her off after she got extremely nasty with me when I brought her sister to the hospital to visit her in 2011. (Her sister did not know she was in the hospital- she was always trying to hide her condition)

At that point I had realized how manipulative the disease had made her. The constant lying- I realized that alcohol had completely taken the person I knew away- She was now controlled by alcohol. And I did not want that in my life. And I could feel how easy it is to get dragged into all of the drama. She had made 3 attempts at rehab by that point. Constantly running away with other patients, etc- And she always felt she was too intelligent for doctors or help. Pretty standard stuff I guess.

And yes, she also had extremely toxic parents and her mother is an alcoholic. In fact, other than two of her sisters the entire family is a mess- Really dark stuff.

[quote] So does the real person come out when they're drunk?

YES!!! Alcohol releases their inhibitions. The things they usually keep under control become apparent. Ever heard "Drunk words are sober thoughts."? There you have it.

R26, they're drunks. What's your excuse?

I'm sorry about your friend, OP. Alcohol generally tends to kill women faster than men, so 36 isn't as young as it may seem.

Do what you can to help make her as comfortable as possible because that will help you in the long run, even though it won't do much for her. It's horrible to watch someone die of cirrhosis, liver failure and renal failure, so be prepared. It's an ugly way to die.

Take this time to forgive yourself, OP. Maybe you wish you had done more, but that's pretty standard for survivors. Not everyone has someone around who cares the way you do. Good for you.

Childhood sexual abuse has lifelong effects but people can get better, I Mentioned this thread to my friend, who said there was a person who did phone meetings from hospice and it seemed to bring him comfort. All so sad. The feeling of worthlessness when people had their safety taken away as children lingers. Wishing you and your friend peace.

The Legacy of Incest: (or childhood sex abuse by authority or trusted figure)

Many of us have common characteristics arising from incest. When the subject of incest or sexual abuse is mentioned, we may feel queasy, nauseous, or hostile, and tend to run away.

Many of us have amnesia and cannot remember large portions of our childhoods. We may not remember the incest for decades. We often believe that childhood was a wonderful, pleasant, and happy time.

Incest memories rarely appear intact. They are usually felt as if through a fog, or in fragments. The memories may appear at any time, triggered by a sound, voice, physical feeling, taste, touch, smell or emotion. The usual response is to try and deny and ignore what is being remembered.

To stuff our pain, we often engage in compulsive behaviors, such as alcohol or drug abuse, eating disorders, compulsive spending, gambling, excessive exercise, sex addiction and work addiction. We may pick at our fingers or skin, cut ourselves or damage our bodies in other ways. Some of us may take the route of suicide. We are often out of touch with our feelings and bodies.

We tend to feel isolated, uneasy and vulnerable around other people, especially authority figures. We tend to have difficulty and guilt feelings standing up for ourselves. We often have low self-esteem and may hate ourselves. Our lives may be a constant struggle to maintain control. Touch is often associated with powerlessness and love with control or being controlled. We have difficulty trusting. We may not even trust ourselves.

We may be sexually shut down or promiscuous. Our relationships, when attempted, either duplicate the abuse of our childhood, or are with individuals whom we pity, want to rescue, or can control. We tend to dissociate during sex. Much of the time we travel in a state of hyper-vigilance. This hyper-vigilance creates a constant fear of attack. It can also cause us to be easily triggered.

We are often bored or uncomfortable when life goes smoothly. We often sabotage ourselves and cause problems to stir things up. We may be addicted to adrenalin and excitement.

R19, I thought up those ideas in the moment based on what I know of psychology, addiction, and my own partying experiences.

If someone I cared about did or said something offensive, my reaction would be to speak with them later about it and, perhaps, suggest they might consider avoiding alcohol. We all react differently to it.

I've mentioned this on the board previously. My cousin, a really great guy who had an alcoholic father, died out of the blue about 8 years ago. He had a wife who was a teacher, a daughter and a son. He was 49. We never really got a clear answer as to what happened to him. A couple years ago we learned he was also an alcoholic who was fired from his job for being drunk and had also broken into his workplace. He ended up taking an overdose (suicide). It was shocking and heartbreaking.

Sadly, my friend passed on last night around 7:05 PM.

RIP Carrie

"Things- they change, my friend"

OP at R32: I am so sorry for your loss. Reading your other posts, I was actually hoping for some sort of miracle. My deepest condolences.

OP, after a certain point in the decline of an alcoholic, death can be viewed as a blessing.

I am sorry you are feeling the loss of your friend.

It most certainly is a blessing- I cried a lot this morning but I am so happy that she is free.

It is also funny the gratitude it has given me for my own life. So I thanked her for that.

I am just sad for her sister (the one sister who is just a wonderful soul, and the only one untouched by her mostly awful family..

Sorry for your loss, OP.

I think people who end up abandoning or distancing themselves from alcoholics or addicts end up with an odd, lingering guilt.

I lived with my boyfriend for years and witnessed him slowly descend into non-functional alcoholism. It was painful not only to watch but to experience. The chaos and even danger that an alcoholic brings to other people's lives can be absolutely ruinous.

I eventually issued an ultimatum: alcohol or me. He chose alcohol, though I don't really believe he had much real choice. After the split, he really hit rock bottom, and I insisted that his family take up trying to help him after I had failed for years.

On an up note, he eventually got clean, became a Buddhist, and now has a successful career. We are friends. I don't know if he would have made that change with me as an enabler, or if I would have become irrevocably bitter from being trapped in the sad world of an alcoholic.

I would never have left had it been another type of disabling disease, and I think that is where some of the guilt stems from. I wonder whose failing the relationship really was sometimes, and I do still mourn its end.

Sorry, OP, for the loss you have experienced.

OP, there's one comfort: At least she is only taking herself down. Most alcoholics destroy the lives of their children, partners, friends and/or kill people in traffic

[quote]Doctors are saying that she has 6 months- maybe.

Sounds very sad.

We really needed to hear all this, OP? Is that what you think we're here for?

This is the DL. We know drunks and we know addictions. And we know that your sadness is now part of the problem.

OP, please ignore R40. Mental illness takes many forms, and his form is something as ugly and sad as it comes.

Hearing about your dead, alcoholic loser friend makes me cherish the drinks I need to unwind at night. Thanks, toots

Sorry for your loss OP. Put the people who say horrible things on this thread on ignore.

Hey R40, we know bitter assholes too, and you are definitely one of them.

Very sorry, OP. Thank you for sharing with us. While extremely sad, many posts have been very informative.

Take care of yourself, OP.

I can relate to a many of these posts regarding my first love: not understanding the problem, covering for him and otherwise enabling, forcing a choice and then leaving him, and ultimately feeling guilty when he died. While we were together he wouldn't go to AA meetings, so I went to Al-Anon. It was a big help and something I learned there is something that I think back on almost every day. There's nothing you can do to change someone else's behavior. The only thing you can do is modify your behavior to it.

Nice post, r46. OP, I am so sorry for your loss. You are a good person.

And I did find out that she will be donating bone marrow, eyes, heart valve-

Which on one hand surprised me (diabetic alcoholic)

But it makes me and her sister very happy that some good will come out of this-

Gallows humor made me want to say that these poor people may all of a sudden develop a taste for vodka-

Thank you for all of your kind words. This place is cool as I am not much of a sharer in person.

My family has been friends with another family for 30 years. The mother of the other family survived a divorce in the 1990s and even tutored me in English, but then after she had a relationship that ended she turned to booze. Hardcore. She was calling up my mother begging her to bail her out of the messes she had created for herself, and she was throwing bi-polar shit fits with her own adult daughters, both of whom are now married to men and one has a baby. But the mother wanted to get drunk instead of going to her youngest daughter's wedding! Even the ex-husband, who remarried a woman at least ten years younger than he but significantly more stable, had to get involved at some point. She's slit her wrists, and she's failed rehab so many times, it's just too depressing to contemplate where this is going to end.

Cigarettes ruin more lives.

I'm very sorry for your loss, OP. That is terribly sad.

On the subject of alcohol bringing out what's already there in your personality versus causing you to do things you wouldn't ordinarily do, I think it can be both. As many times as I've been tipsy (when I was younger; I don't drink much now), I've never let loose with a racist diatribe or anything like that.

But sometimes your thoughts are not your own; we all have stuff planted in our heads constantly by other people and by our culture, ideas we're exposed to passively. If something ugly comes to mind that you've got stuck in your head, and you know you really mustn't say it, I can imagine alcohol loosening you up and your thinking, "Don't say it, don't say it, don't say it," and before you know it, you're saying it. Or maybe it causes you to get into a really foul mood and you want, perversely, to be as hateful as you can, and you do. That's not what I'd call your true self coming out; I'd call it your worst qualities coming out. And we all have a dark side.

It killed two of my best friends, who were a gay couple with everything: money, home, cars, etc. and lost it all. The were both under the age of 50 when they died, but they passed away ten years apart. They don't call it "The Gay Disease" for no reason. Don't drink alone or binge, and for God sake's if you think you have a problem, stop drinking. I did.

Regarding "survivors guilt" -- my father died of alcoholism when I was 26. I come from a large Polish Catholic family, he had many many people in his life. Every one tried EVERYTHING you can think of over a 20 year period, from denial to begging to ultimatums. Nothing worked. I tried everything as a young person too. After he died and I had to clean out his apartment (looked like an episode of Hoarders with 60+ garbage bags filled with crushed beer cans, maybe 100 emptties of Southern Comfort, dead mice, totally traumatic ) I found the piece of paper on which he wrote down the name if a man in AA I begged him to just call. He had done rehab fyi.

Even though intellectually I understood that we had all fought for him and that it was his choice to go out that way, I still wished I had had just ONE more argument, just one more debate with him, like I could have changed his mind and got him to want to stop. It isn't true of course. But especially when it's family, it's absolutely a struggle to accept that you did everything that could be done. Over time it has become much easier though....life does go on.

An old school friend was the worst drunk I've ever seen. Molested by her father as a child, she was wildly promiscuous even though her husband was a good guy. Then she died of AIDS in 1989.

This is not the normal alcoholic story.

I condole you, OP.

I was not able to stop before I faced serious, permanent consequences. But the important thing is that I did eventually stop. About to be 4 months sober, and still loving it.

Good for you, R56. I have been sober for about 1 year. It does get a bit easier with time.

In my experience, LGBT people have their own specific issues with alcohol dependence and abuse. And while things are changing for the better, gay male culture still encourages and reinforces alcohol dependence and abuse. Most of the middle-aged gay men I know who still consume alcohol drink too much and too frequently. It's very concerning to me, but it's up to them to modify their behavior.

Oh. The OP in her 30s had her eyes opened to something so self-evident and well-known that it's like "discovering" that night is dark.

Where do these creatures live? Useless people.

So many different paths and types. I knew some who went hard and fast - from day one, they were alcoholics who couldn’t stop. I always thought they had a biological predilection. Hit bottom - one died - by 30s.

The other more common I’m seeing now in my late 40s/50s. Gay men who just steadily keep drinking. Then drink too much on weekends. Then drink during week. Then drink at home. Seems more incremental. What’s scary was being in Fort Lauderdale and it seemed like the town was full of retired alcoholics. Think gay men need guidance on how to age well.

My bro in law was a real charmer, but died at 49 from alcoholism. Now is son is on that path. He’s been hospitalized a few times with pancreatitis. Neither of them stopped.

R58, it really isn’t self-evident to many. It creeps up on people, and denial is a huge factor. Some can’t imagine life without alcohol, and it makes sense, because all their friends and their pastimes revolve around alcohol by that point.

I live with a functioning one. He doesn't think he has a problem. He needs it to unwind and relax from his job and family problems. Is it normal for a drunk to keep repeating things? He would asking me if I had set his alarm (for the morning). His dad has dementia and repeating things is a symptom.

Also when he's drunk, he turns into a nasty person. He says some really terrible things. Is this the real him ?

Drunk people say mean things. They also repeat things. Definition of an alcoholic is subjective. Some would say anyone who drinks regularly is as alcohol is a drug, Drinking a six pack every night is a problem clearly. But there are so many gray areas. But if it’s a problem for you, it’s a problem.

R62, no, it’s not the real him. Some will say it is, but it is not. Alcohol is a poison, and his body is reacting to that. He might be a jackass anyway, but if he’s otherwise nice or normal, then it’s just the alcohol.

Forgetting like that doesn’t sound normal to me, unless he’s taking meds that interact with alcohol.

You might consider video taping him and playing it for him when he’s sober.

I can never understand those who become hooked on alcohol as it tastes truly disgusting. Just a drop of whisky and I want to puke.

That is the disease r65. It’s illogical and you can’t stop. The thought of a sip of alcohol does disgust me, and yet I know if I had one sip I wouldn’t stop until I was blackout drunk. I just have to avoid it completely.

I don't drink because my stomach usually starts feeling like fire afterwards.

There's another kind of addiction that ruins lives. Internet usage and trolling. That and video games. People may not have alcoholism but they can ruin their lives with these. People don't really talk about it though. There are not many support groups for it because it's not as acceptable as drinking. I'm serious. People kind of have a heart for alcoholism. That's a legitimate recognized disease. The other stuff is looked at like a bad habit.

Alcohol will physically kill you. Internet addiction will only kill your social life and mental health.

Deepest condolences for your loss, OP.

I was fortunate to realize I had a binge drinking problem at about the same age as your friend and was able to turn things around. Thank you for posting this important message during a very painful time. I wish you a good life with much happiness.

I think it's a little diff, R67. Those things, while bad, won't ravage your body.

I agree, R70.

I’ve seen people gambling who are addicted to it. It’s like they are hypnotized by the games and oblivious to their surroundings. Not everyone, I suppose, but it’s what I saw. It’s the same preoccupation I once saw in a meth addict I once knew.

R62, liver disease can cause personality changes.

Prohibition started 100 years ago today.

R72 Hepatic Encephalopathy

[quote] Also when he's drunk, he turns into a nasty person. He says some really terrible things. Is this the real him ?

Yes, that's the real him. You're too dumb when you're drunk to lie. It's a truth serum.

Leave him, R62.

I don’t think it’s the real him. When your brain is saturated with alcohol (metaphorically), it throws everything off balance and you can turn into a monster. Plus you’d feel awful most of the time, and your life is a mess, so that can agitate someone, too. Besides, don’t get too hung-up on the idea of a person’s “real” persona. It’s not really a thing, except in our minds.

[quote] Also when he's drunk, he turns into a nasty person. He says some really terrible things. Is this the real him?

Alcohol lowers your inhibitions and allows you to act on impulse. When you're sober, you have self-restraint and will bite your tongue. Reason: you know that what you want to say will hurt someone. You realize that some words can't be forgotten nor forgiven.

Even if alcohol is "poison" and alcohol is a "disease" that causes your man to say mean things, it still fucking hurts to be on the receiving end. Bit by bit, your self-esteem is crumbling.

I had no idea a friend was as severe an alcoholic as he turned out to be until I learned he was in hospice because his liver was failing.

He was in his late 40s but I'd never seen any of the signs of alcohol abuse; he was highly functional, just very socially unsure of himself.

He died a few years ago, and it's very heartbreaking to think he's not around.

My Dad has to take laxatives every 3-4 hours to manage the symptoms of his hepatic encephelopathy - it flushes out the ammonia his liver can no longer eliminate from his body. His cognitive function starts to deteriorate within hours if he doesn't. Within 24 hours he'd have trouble remembering who I am. A family friend with alcoholic liver disease died of a spontaneous internal bowel rupture - he filled up with his own waste and he was too weak and degraded for the doctors to be able to do a single thing about it. Late stage liver disease is a horrible, almost medieval way to die. Of course, after putting my whole family through decades of hell with his lies and abuse, Dad now he says he regrets his drinking - now that it's affecting HIM.