What's it like to live in Los Angeles?

Hell on Earth, by my estimation.

Vapid, empty, soulless city.

Vast stretches of jam packed freeways.

No heart of the city, but rather a patchwork of smaller towns.

No seasons.

And that's just off the top of my head.

It varies. If you leave in a box in South Central LA---not so good. If you live in an estate in the Pacific Palisades...fabulous!!

It depends on what part of LA. If you live in an affluent area (then it is not that bad) but most of LA is a ghetto shit hole: smoggy, vapid and annoying people, and horrifying traffic.

I've been here for 30 years and love it. Los Angeles has more museums than any other city in the country. It's now eclipsing New York as the center of fashion and the arts.

LACMA

The Getty

Getty Villa

Disney Center

Ahmanson Theatre

Mark Taper Forum

The Broad Museum

Petersen Auto Museum

California Science Center

Hammer Muesum

The Grammy Museum

California African American Museum

Pacific Asia Museum

Natural History Museum

The Forum

Geffen Playhouse

The Hollywood Bowl

Greek Theatre

Pantages Theatre

Dolby Theatre

Nokia Theatre

Staples Center

Norton Simon Museum

MoCa

Fonda Theatre

Sabah Theatre

[quote] I've been here for 30 years and love it. Los Angeles has more museums than any other city in the country. It's now eclipsing New York as the center of fashion and the arts.

If you like that sort of thing.

Awful.

The nation's cultural capital, at least as measured by number of museums, isn't New York, but rather Los Angeles — a city known more for Hollywood and the Hiltons than for Holbein and history. L.A. County has 681 museums compared to New York County's 414. Chicago (Cook County), San Diego and D.C. round out the rest of the top five.

LA isn't a cultural capital. I don't care how many museums are in LA. Horrible traffic and sprawl. No seasons and endless heat. Huge homeless population. LA sucks.

More and more designers are migrating to Los Angeles. New York has become boring.

Like the film industry, LA is plastic and fake. Living there is beyond mind numbing. If you're rich and/or famous its your playground. If not it can be hell.

What flyover shithole do you call home, R8?

[quote]Like the film industry, LA is plastic and fake.

The only people who say this are transplants.

It's second rate as a human environment but outstanding in its natural environment.

R8 here. LA is home for me.

R8 again. I don't live in some flyover shithole. I live in LA so I'm not basing my opinion on something I read.

What's textbook reselling like there?

[quote]The only people who say this are transplants

LA is made entirely of transplant. No one care for LA since everyone is from elsewhere

The beach is nice.

It seems like a cultural desolate hell hole

Thinking of relocating from NYC. Thoughts on Studio City or Burbank? They seem affordable, but might not be the best spots.

the pacific is cold

the beaches are dotted with tar from the oil platforms in the ocean

the palm trees are not native to the area

it's all fake and phoney

The beach is nice? If you can find parking. And if you do, you'll be within 3 feet of people on every side of you. Forget going in the Summer. I have lived here my entire life and I haven't been to a beach in 10 years. Friends went this summer and turned around and came home it was so crowded.

[quote]Thinking of relocating from NYC. Thoughts on Studio City or Burbank? They seem affordable, but might not be the best spots

Decent areas, but they get hot in the summer. A lot depends on where you'll be working (assuming you have to commute.)

I'm not a fan. To me a lot of bthe good parts of dealing with a big city aren't even found in LA. It is mess of crowded highways with not much of an urban core and is shockingly anti-intellectual.

It isn't all bad of couse, beautiful in parts and can be a lot of fun. But as American cities go it is down the list for me.

One of the FEW things I liked about Los Angeles were the abundance of museums and there are a lot of things to do - and you can find what ever niche you're looking for there. It's also a great foodie town - great Korean, Mexican, Vietnamese, and Middle Eastern food plus much more.

But to me, the cons vastly outweighed the pros. To me, LA has a lot of the drawbacks of big city living, but few of the benefits. Whoever described it as a patchwork of small towns was right to a degree...its a patchwork of towns and cities that all grew together extensively in the mid-20th century into the massive, dense sprawl you see today. There's little "heart" there, so I never felt a sense of place there and for people used to cities with a "heart"/focal point, it can be off putting, so be prepared to throw your pre-conceived notions of what constitutes a city and you'll appreciate it more. Downtown is much better than it used to be, but it leaves a lot to be desired. But unlike cities with busier downtowns, there are lots of numerous neighborhoods with their own activities and diversions. Your experience in North Hollywood will be vastly different from West Hollywood, which is different from Beverly Hills, which is different from Silver Lake, etc...its a multipolar city, so it's a tough nut to crack if you don't know the right people, scene, or neighborhood because even larger swaths of the city like South Central or the Westside or the Valley have vastly different neighborhoods and experiences. It's not a place where you can explore it all in one fell swoop. Even the natives I knew hadn't explored the entire city in their lifetime.

I lived in an expensive shithole apartment near LAX with obnoxious neighbors who played music all night and since it was near the ocean, no air conditioning in the unit. So it was unbearably hot in there for a good part of the year. Although the weather is much better than other parts of the country, it can still get unbearably hot certain times of the year and pretty cold sometimes in the winter (as low as the 40's sometimes) - Miami is much better for winter weather.

Also, it is very hard to make friends there or socialize...its overcrowded and congested and too difficult to get anywhere if you hit the road during the wrong time of the day. And when you get to where you're going, you quickly realize 100-1000 people had the same idea. You.cant.get.away. It's not easy to escape the relentless concrete jungle feel either. It's actually easier to get away from NYC to the hinterlands than the sprawl of LA believe it or not...and its either the desert, inaccessible mountains (except a few areas), or the farmlands of the Central Valley. Yes, Santa Barbara and San Diego are relatively close by, but they're hardly what I'd call bucolic getaways (very nice nonetheless) and you have to get through miles of sprawling suburbia and traffic to get to either city. I don't think people from other parts of the country realize just how massive Southern California is.

People can be fake - They can be polite in your face, but will not fuck with you unless you can do something for them. Even some of my relatives there had that fake ass vibe to them. At least East Coasters are a lot more blunt in their assholishness so you usually know exactly where you stand win someone. The passive-aggressive behavior in LA can easily get to someone used to a more in-your-face environment.

I'm MUCH happier on the East Coast, but that's me. I know plenty of people who love it there and wouldn't dream of living anywhere else. But hey...everything isn't for everyone.

A lot of the comments ("nice if you're wealthy, congestion, seasons are the same, etc") reminded me of Sydney, Australia. With one exception, you have to fly at least 10 hours to get from Sydney to Honolulu, then another 12 hours to Canada.

At least in LA you can hop a red eye or drive to get away. In Australia, you are basically stuck in the middle of nowhere. And 40 Celsius at Christmas is not my idea of Happy Tidings or Deck the Halls type of environment.

Actually you can get away in LA and pretty quickly--drive up the 2 and into Angeles National Forest. About 20 minutes from gritty (but trendy) Highland Park and you feel like you are on another planet. Mountains all around and solitude. Also Trancas Canyon etc. Previous posters either don't known the city or do not care to.

I've lived here for 28 years, and I live in a very non-trendy area that most of you would turn up your nose at, but it's affordable and safe-- just geographically undesirable and not a gay mecca. Anyway, I'm retired now and thought I'd spend my days doing all of the various activities available here--including the aforementioned museums and other similar things, but every time I think about going somewhere, I change my mind almost immediately when I think about how bad the traffic is going to be. Even non-rush hour traffic has gotten horrendous in the last ten years or so. Public transportation is definitely improving, but most of it is light rail, which is slow and makes a lot of stops. So even though I could drive to Santa Monica in around 35-40 minutes with no traffic, going on public transportation or driving in "normal" traffic can be up to two hours or more.

If I was wealthy I don't think I'd even consider LA. I'm an NE person and agree you can escape the city in the blink of an eye - just about.

Also, all those forest fires you see on t.v. every year, constant smog, and heavy traffic would drive me nuts. I remember reading an article on line about 2 years ago and this guy was describing a typical work day/commute scenario. He described it something like this: Gets up around 5:00 a.m. breakfast, gets organized, out the door by 6:30. Arrives at office around 9:00 and leaves the office around 5:00 pm, arriving back in his 'town' or suburb around 7:00 - 7:30 pm. Has 1 hour to spend with kids before they go to bed. Repeat again.

Toronto, Canada has the same traffic nightmare.

R20 again. Sorry. What are the neighborhoods/ areas to avoid?

All of them, R30. Nicer areas are populated by oblivious twats and the shittier areas no habla Ingles.

[quote] I've lived here for 28 years, and I live in a very non-trendy area that most of you would turn up your nose at, but it's affordable and safe-- just geographically undesirable

Where's that?

There's never a dull moment in LA, that's for sure. And unlike NYC, relatively affordable (plus you get much more SPACE for what you pay).

LA has benefited by NYC becoming too expensive for the artistic class. It's a young, exciting city.

Not if you're working-class or in the Valley, R33. A large bedroom in someone's house rents for $800-1100. Forget getting your own apartment here unless you make big bucks.

Yes, but compared to the shoebox-sized places you'd get in SF or Manhattan (for much, much more $), it's a trade up.

R32 San Gabriel Valley -- east of Pasadena. I have a 3BR/2.75 BA townhouse-about 1400 sq. ft. and it's worth under $400K. Would probably rent for around $2K/mo.

I guess you aren't looking at the same places I am, then. I can't find a room large enough for all my stuff at a rate I can actually afford.

R30 it's impossible to answer questions like that unless you can be more specific about where your job is located, do you own a car, etc. Try providing a few specifics instead of generic "what's a good area?." LA is too large for ambiguity.

"Endless heat"? August though October, usually. Not exactly endless.

I love LA. There are some problems, but ultimately I adore living here. I tried moving east for a year and had to come back.

R38 - R30 again. Car, yes. My husband will be able keep his job in NYC and work from home. I'm between jobs now. We're just trying to get a lay of the land. This thread makes the homeless/ skeevy issue seem worse than NYC.

R40 thanks for answering. At least you will have a car. Since you don't provide age range, social interests, rent/own budget, etc., the best answer I can provide is a generic "yes, Studio City is good."

A thread like this is best started when you have a plan and can be more specific.

[quote]the pacific is cold And the very reason for the dry weather. If the Pacific were warm, LA weather would be like Florida.

[quote]the beaches are dotted with tar from the oil platforms in the ocean The tar is from natural seeps on the ocean floor. The Indians used to use it to waterproof their canoes. In some places like Santa Barbara, it even oozes right out the cliffs. The oozing oil is the very reason the oil platforms are there.

[quote]the palm trees are not native to the area The California Fan Palms are native to Palm Springs. The tall skinny Mexican Fan Palms are native to Baja California.

[quote]it's all fake and phony It can be a bit around "the biz". Get away from the West Side, and most of L.A. has nothing to do with that industry.

[quote]What are the neighborhoods/ areas to avoid?

In general, you want to live west of the 405 FWY

or

North of the 10 FWY, and south of the 101 FWY.

It's nearly always sunny, except when it's raining.

It almost never rains, but when it does decide to rain hard, the rain can be biblical (In 1861 it rained for 44 days straight and the State capital was underwater for 6 months)

But after "the storm of the century", it will immediately be sunny and 75 degrees again while people are cleaning up.

This year is an El Nino year. Brace yourself.

Fabulous - Paradise on earth

It started us on the road to financial independence.

[quote]Also, all those forest fires you see on t.v. every year, constant smog, and heavy traffic would drive me nuts.

Traffic can be avoided depending on where you live and work.

Forest Fires come with the Santa Ana winds in the fall. (Sunny, 90 degrees with hurricane force winds over the mountains and zero humidity)

Smog is nothing compared to what it used to be.

The last stage 3 smog alert was in 1974

The last stage 2 alert was in 1988

and there has been only one stage 1 alert since 1998 ( in 2003).

The traffic problem started when they imported all the illegals to make LA a 24/7 town. They haven't got there yet, but they have plenty of Mexicans and once they started to drive (to their jobs which attempt to make this a 24/7 city) the traffic really went to hell.

We used to have something called "The Rush Hour." For an hour in the morning and one in the late afternoon, the traffic was a mess, but other than that, it was a fun city to zip around in (if you had a car and even then, most everyone did).

[quote]It almost never rains, but when it does decide to rain hard, the rain can be biblical (In 1861 it rained for 44 days straight and the State capital was underwater for 6 months)

You do realize that the state capital is 400 miles from Los Angeles, right?

Born and raised eldergay Angeleno here. There is virtually no smog any more. That is truly one of the great success stories in So Cal - the strict emission laws actually worked. Unless you live up in the mountains, the forest fires do not impact your life. Traffic is a problem, I'll admit, but it's something you learn to deal with. You learn alternate routes, you learn to listen to the traffic reports and check traffic maps, and you learn to be flexible in your scheduling wherever possible.

It's not perfect, but then nowhere on earth is it perfect. I'll take LA over NY or Chicago any day. The heat is dry (and believe me it DOES make a difference) and I never have to shovel snow and chip ice off my car.

As someone who lived in SoCal in the 80s and 90s and a brief stint last year, I can attest there is way less smog nowadays.

LaCienega, LaBrea, and Sepulveda are great alternate routes to the infamous 405 freeway. I used to even drive Figueroa to avoid the 110 at times too.

[quote]The traffic problem started when they imported all the illegals to make LA a 24/7 town. They haven't got there yet, but they have plenty of Mexicans and once they started to drive (to their jobs which attempt to make this a 24/7 city) the traffic really went to hell.

Yes, asshole R47. Illegals really explain why the 405 is the worst, most congested freeway and why traffic on the [bold][italic] westside [/bold][/italic] is the biggest nightmare in all of the city. (Eyeroll) I'm sure it has nothing at all to do with those white mactor transplants from outside the state..

Well?

Oh, r51 is the same type crying because the Muslims are coming the Europe and saying mean things to Jews.

There are tons of illegals on the 405 because they use the route to service the Westside. There are tons of working moms using the route because they have to pay for the illegals to service the houses they live in on the Westside that they couldn't afford unless she worked.

There are ton of American men on the route because they were downsized by insourcing and now work from their cars.

The 405 was always crowded, and despite all the upgrades, remain so.

I couldn't give a shit about either the Muslims or Jews in Europe.

But you, R53, are a complete dumbass and a loon and completely out of touch with modern LA. Next time you drive around west of La Cienega, you should try looking around at the other cars and drivers, because what is it that I see? Rich housefraus and industry types zipping around, single occupancy, in huge luxury SUV's, clogging the streets with traffic.

It's too bad they can't build a subway or transportation system to ease the traffic on the westside! Oh wait --- Metro has tried, but filthy rich Beverly Hills has been fighting tooth and nail to keep the subway out! Who cares about easing traffic, when you just crawl around in your SUV, I guess.

I was shocked by how general the desire to cheat and rip people off seems to be. It took me four visits to the auto dealer before I finally realized that every time I took it in one for one thing, they were breaking something else. In LA more than anyplace else in America outside of Florida, you really need to research everyone you do business with.

I loved it once. It loved me back. But it was not to last.

It's a strange new form of business, r55 - contempt for those who patronize your services.

[quote]In LA more than anyplace else in America outside of Florida, you really need to research everyone you do business with.

R55 has never had to pay Philadelphia's "white tax."

I love all the cliche LA bullshit. "Its fake,its plastic,there's too much traffic,too much sprawl,only for the wealthy".....and on and on and on.

LA is a first class city which great museums and restaurants. Yes there is that plastic part of it I wont deny. But there is also beautiful old neighborhoods like Hancock Park and Silverlake. Downtown is hotter than hot right now with great restaurants and art scene. You also have access away to the beach or hiking depending on where you live. And people here are super chill. And nice.

The only downside is real estate is nearly impossible to buy unless you are making serious coin. And rents are getting higher. I love it here. Love it.

I love LA. I live in Philly right now and I loathe visiting New York. It's funny that these LA threads ALWAYS bring out bitter New Yorkers who can't stand to hear about the competition.

I don't care about East Coast "grittiness" or "realness." I've lived with bitch East Coast attitudes all my life. It's a different attitude in LA.

NYC is too expensive, has lost every bit of its charm, and is overcrowded. It's funny that people complain that there are no true Los Angelinos. New York is full to the brim with provincial transplants who move to Brooklyn to give their ego a boost.

[quote]I'll take LA over NY or Chicago any day. The heat is dry (and believe me it DOES make a difference) and I never have to shovel snow and chip ice off my car.

The big difference being in New York or Chicago you don't need to have a car.

Lots of people drive in Chicago.

LA has: t ‘Elvira, Mistress of the Dark’

[quote]Lots of people drive in Chicago.

Sure. But, Chicago's public transportation is such that you can fairly easily get around the city without one. That is not of LA, which annoys me.

We have a metro in LA, but I have to take a bus to get to my neighborhood's only station

I personally liked the South Bay better than the Westside because although it's still expensive, it's a bit off the radar and not as trendy and the people there were a lot more chill and humble. While it's pretty congested like most of SoCal, it's nowhere near as congested as Santa Monica/Sunset/Wilshire up that way...And the weather in the South Bay is arguably just as good as the Westside...both are more tolerable than the Valley in the summertime. Sure, you have Manhattan Beach there, which is one of the wealthiest cities in California, but it's much more laid back than Beverly Hills and Bel-Air. And the ocean views are gorgeous. Ditto with Hermosa and Redondo Beach. El Segundo had a charming neighborhood vibe, BUT it's in the shadows of a massive refinery... The Palos Verdes Peninsula is gorgeous with great views of the Pacific, Catalina Island, and the LA Basin, but you have to have a shit ton of money to live there. Lots of equestrian activity there as well. In spite of the wealth, not much shopping except Del Amo, which finall got a Nordstrom this year, South Bay Galleria, or the mall in Manhattan Beach. Shopping is much better on the Westside and the Valley...Westfield Century City, Beverly Center, and Santa Monica Place alone...very very nice. This area was the heart of the aerospace industry during the Cold War, so it attracted a different mindset/personality than the more "Hollywood" parts of town. Scientists and engineers who made a lot of money built that area rather than actors/producers/directors.

Torrance is a nice, middle-class area, well zoned (the industrial parts are pretty separate from the residential and commercial areas) and pretty clean and safe. The further south and westyou go, the more expensive it is because it's closer to the ocean and the Palos Verdes Peninsula. The biggest disadvantage is that it's far from the freeways so traffic down Hawthorne Blvd and Crenshaw Blvd (yes, THAT Crenshaw, but this very far from South LA) is a BITCH as commuters head up towards the 405.

Many parts of Long Beach can be rough and long in the tooth, but there are awesome neighborhoods like Bixby Knolls, Belmont Shore, Newport Island, or Park Estates that are a huge contrast to the rougher parts of town... Ocean Blvd is pretty nice and there are a lot of historical neighborhoods and the city is pretty gay-friendly. It is still pretty "checkerboard" though...one block will be really nice and the next one will be a damn slum in many parts of town...The beach itself...um...I wouldn't swim in that water.

I hate that I didn't get to explore more of Mid City, Mid Wilshire, Hancock Park, Fairfax, etc when I was living there. While LA wasn't for me, I appreciated it for what it was when I was there, so I didn't have the visceral hatred for it that some have. But would I live there again? Probably not.

I don't think LA will ever be a true 24/7 town for a number of reasons - the early last call; the long commuting hours; the time difference between there and the East Coast can be somewhat of a disadvantage for *some* people who have a lot of business dealings back East...plus LA's always been a morning city.

LA doesn't hate on other cities. They like everyone (to visit, it's just too cold to live there)

New York and San Francisco HATE HATE HATE LA. They won't shut up about it. EVER!

They're obsessed. It's some kind of mental problem.

But LA just doesn't give a shit.

Manhattan Beach is the ideal beach town. except for the cost.

Pasadena and other San Gabriel Valley cities used to loom large in people's perceptions of the place, but not anymore I find.

R68 is right. I always noticed that the hatred towards Los Angeles is largely one sided. People from San Francisco, San Diego, and even Phoenix (which has a lot of former Angelenos) all shoot daggers at LA and people there in LA couldn't give a flying shit. And they're not even smug about it either... They seem to be pretty secure in themselves and their city, warts and all. It's not like the inferiority complexes and defensiveness of people from cities like Houston (or some upstart sunbelt city who thinks they can stomp with the big dogs), or older cities like Philly (who are proud but bitter at the fact that they're surpassed by many cities nowadays) where people tend to have a real chip on their shoulder if you're not in love with them the way they are.

Endless heat? The weather is the best thing about LA.

You need to know LA's secrets to enjoy it. For instance, for the beach, go to Malibu and enter through the door next to Geffen's house. He hates it but it's public access and it's beautiful.

Judgmental map of Los Angeles

I was born & raised in L.A., and have lived here my entire life -- except for two years during my mid-20s, in Ohio -- and I LOVE this stupid place! Admittedly, I don't love it as much as I did growing up in the 1970s-80s (minus the reduction in smog)..... but I still don't want to live anywhere else.

I wish the people who don't like it here would get the fuck out!

If you're not sure about moving here...... please don't. No offense, but we don't want (or need) you!

For Angelenos to allegedly not care that other cities hate it there so much, it sure has been mentioned a lot , I'm just saying...

Philadelphia has over 200 historic house museums. We're talking serious moldy asscrack and a thousand people whose job it is to know how to cook with a fucking andiron.

That's culture. LA's "painting" community are the people who see how many parking spots they can squeeze into a strip mall lot.

That map is highly accurate, which is rare for these kinds of things.

LA has whole categories of workers, like "valet parking attendants" that rarely exist anywhere else.

.

Agreed, R77, the map is surprisingly accurate.

That's the difference between LA and a city like Philly. LA is creating new culture by attracting young, top and exciting talent and giving them world-class venues to display their art; a place like Philly clings desperately to it's heyday long past and long irrelevant.

The place is a shithole. I'm so glad I moved away to Portland, OR when I did 20 years ago. I never regretted the move.

Oh, stuff it R75. For four years at UCLA, I had to listen to my Bay Area-roommates rag on L.A., and how superficial it was, and how much it sucked in comparison to San Francisco -- constantly. I kept saying, "And yet, you are all HERE!.....NOT at Cal or Stanford, or SF state.....or anywhere else. Why is that?" It was fucking annoying!

LA is a bewildering place for tourists --- it's not like New York or SF, where you can stroll around the streets and fall in love with icons like the Golden Gate Bridge or the Empire State building. It's a more difficult city to "fall in love" with. It takes at least a year to "get it."

r75, growing up in LA, I had no idea about hatred between any cities.

None.

... and then I moved to NYC.

OH MY GOD! The New Yorkers just wouldn't shut up about how much LA sucks. And the biggest haters had never even been to LA.

Why do they care?

[quote]LA is a bewildering place for tourists

I grew up in LA and love it, but I went downtown over Xmas and was embarrassed to see tourists on Broadway and Third. It's pretty seedy there -- all of downtown is, despite some bars and restaurants.

Except for the strolling part, I do not agree with a single thing R82 says about LA.

A huge percentage of LA natives have never even been downtown. Ever.

What R82 says is true. With Manhattan, San Francisco, Philadelphia, Chicago etc. Any tourists can show up downtown, walk around and explore the city. LA is not like that (even though yes, there is a lot for a tourist to see).

The 108 degree temps with 50% humidity this Summer has done me in here in LA. Halloween is Saturday and it's going to be in the 90s. Last winter, I turned my heater on one time.

I would kill for some cold, wet weather where I could actually get a good night sleep and not have to wake up in a pool of sweat.

And my neighborhood is filled with graffiti, homeless people, and loud, Mexican parties that last two days.

That's right. Two days.

Before, it used to be Halloween was the first cold night of Fall.

Now, that *might* happen on Thanksgiving

It doesn't take a year to "get it." All you have to do is read Mike Davis. He may have fudged here and there but he got the main themes.

R88, you realize a window air conditioner costs like $100?

Most tourists seem encouraged or directed to places like Hollywood/Highland or the Santa Monica Pier, which are both sad, sad tourist traps. You really need to befriend a local or plan out a sound itinerary. There is so much to see, so much to do, but it's not "obvious."

This is true about San Francisco but not sure about San Diego, r71. San Diegans tend to visit LA quite a bit and vice-versa. Perhaps you're referring to sports fans and Chargers fans in particular given the possibility of losing the team to LA but I don't find that statement to be generally true for San Diegans.

Yes, dear. I have an air conditioner that I used to only have to run one at night maybe 4 times in the past 45 years I've lived here. This year I had to run it at night for WEEKS and it is right above my head so I wake up congested and feeling like shit. Not to mention that when the heat is like that, the entire city smells like one, big fart.

[quote]A huge percentage of LA natives have never even been downtown. Ever.

This is true, and a marked contrast to how things were say, 50 years ago, when all of the big department stores still had their flagship locations downtown, and all of those beautiful movie palaces were actually showing movies. I know it will never return to its former glory, but I'm hoping the gentrification combined with the fact that downtown is still the central hub of both the heavy and light rail systems, will make it a destination again.

I only go to Downtown LA when I have Jury duty. They have tried to make it happen but when you can walk two blocks and you're suddenly on Skid Row fearing for your life, you tend to avoid downtown.

CARS CARS CARS!!!!!

Not just on the freeway but EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!

People cut through the all neighborhoods to finds the fastest route because they are SOOOOOOOOO IMPORTANT.

If you love load noise and the smell of exhaust then LA is for you.

[quote]If you love load noise

Plenty of load noise up in the San Fernando Valley! That is, afterall, where most porn is filmed!

So R80 you are basing your opinion on a place you lived 20 years ago?

You wanna talk about shitholes we can discuss Portland. What an utterly pointless waste of space.

Hee! Loud noise!

When I was out of work and living at the Hollywoodland motel on Ventura Boulevard in Studio CIty, I used to sleep with my light on...especially after robbers with guns broke into my neighbor's room and took all her stuff. But it was very cheap and within walking distance of central Hollywood.

Yum!

The Steve Martin movie, "LA Story" gets it just right.

The morning commute shortcut scene parody is dead on.

In NYC, everyone has their "pole position" on the subway platform that will line up with their exit.

In LA, everyone has their secret commute shortcuts (that often include alleys)

People would still go downtown to the central library....if people still went to libraries.

Love the year round weather (or the lack of it, rather) and love to visit. Say, is there is an Italian-American presence in LA? If I move there, will I be the only greasy wop in town?

Nowadays it takes all day to drive from Laguna Beach to Malibu on the PCH. But what a fascinating journey.

They have their own website, capiche?

And if you can't find any, head to Glendale and hang with the Armenians, who are almost the same thing.

R105, you can always hang around with Daniel LaRusso up in Reseda.

[quote]Say, is there is an Italian-American presence in LA? If I move there, will I be the only greasy wop in town?

There was never a large "off the boat" population of Italians in LA, like there was on the East Coast. So no ethnic Italian neighborhoods.

There are plenty of Italians in LA, but they are nearly all 2nd generation American and are blended in with all the other white people.

San Francisco was the destination for most Italian immigrants, because it was the major city at the time when the heaviest immigration took place.

[quote]But it was very cheap and within walking distance of central Hollywood.

You WALKED over Cahuenga Pass from Studio City to Hollywood?

In the 1920s, Los Angeles had the greatest mass transit system in the world.

The Pacific Electric Red Car

The Los Angeles Railway (Yellow Car)

Yes I did R110

It's not far, but it wouldn't kill them to put in a sidewalk. It was downright dangerous for part of the way.

awful unless you have money

R25 is dead on. There are some nice parts of LA but overall the cons outweigh the pros. I can't wait to leave.

That's probably true, R86......but not for me. My mother worked in the Mayor's Office for 20 years, so I visited City Hall & downtown a lot, growing up. When I was 14, I "volunteered" in my mom's office, twice a week during summer vacation, stuffing envelopes, and crap like that. I acted like I hated it (my mom & I were at odds), but it was actually pretty cool!

"It's now eclipsing New York as the center of fashion and the arts."

R4, I have been hearing that for over 30 years. I am not saying you are inaccurate, but seriously. It is not new.

LA is a dump! Photo is the real skid row what LA is all about!

Yes R119, skid row is dreadful, but unless you're out to score some crack, or visit the west coast's largest bathhouse (Ha!) one has no reason to ever venture there.

My father -- who moved to L.A. as 12 year-old, in 1939 -- used to wax poetic about the red cars.

r119, it's not as bad as it looks.

...if you know where to go.

The homeless are all over LA. Huge problem here.

Homelessness is a big problem, but well, can you blame them? If you had to choose an American city to be homeless in, what better town than mild, perfect, year-round weather LA? It beats freezing to death in New York or Chicago.

The homeless are a big problem BECAUSE WE KEEP FEEDING THEM!

That's most uber-liberal Santa Monica, R125.

LA gets cold at night. Florida and Hawaii are better except that they have evolved a culture to prey on such people.

" a place like Philly clings desperately to it's heyday long past and long irrelevant. "

HEY! I live in Philly and I have a passion for American history. Everything that happened in Philadelphia from 1790-1800 still affects your everyday lives. Don't believe me? Read a history book, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist Papers or the Declaration of Independence. If you can read.

I also love LA and have defended it when people on this thread bash it. Philly and LA are different worlds away. NYC is where all the true LA haters live, not Philadelphia. We get kicked around by New Yorkers enough, we don't need Californians doing the same. As a matter of fact, if I ever leave Philly, it would be for LA.

Italian immigrants tended to be from Italy's poor Southern coastal cities, so they migrated to America's port cities to work on the docks. That is why Boston, New York, Philadelphia, New Orleans and San Francisco developed major Italian American communities, and Los Angeles did not. (The Port of Los Angeles and Long Beach was not a significant port until well after the major wave of Southern European immigration had ended).

We are not discussing Portland in this thread [99] and, of course, Portland certainly has its issues. I should of noted that I travel extensively for my job and frequent the towns and cities all over the Western US. I travel to LA for work at least monthly and work all over the LA basin. Of all the cities I travel, I feel that I know LA the best. I spend only as much time as I must to work, visit family and friends and then I get the hell out of that shit hole.

At this point I accept that John / Program Major Book Resale troll has been trolling us all along, giggling to itself daily at our increasing irritation.

Next up: 'What's it like to live in Hamburg / Riga / Adelaide / Aberdeen / Newark / Malmo? WELLLL??

I'd take Portland over LA R130. It has a cool concentrated urban core that is easy to explore on foot and by public transportation. An amazing craft beer, great restaurants.

The main thing I don't like about it is how undiverse it is.

I liked living in Portland because it had such an interesting downtown, filled with interesting shops, bars, and restaurants. I walked home from work at SW Morrison @ First to NW Glisan near 22nd all the time, and became such a shopping addict.

Lurker Frau. Please tolerate.

I was a post-doc in Pasadena, so that means poor. The lives the academics lead on Big Bang Theory are not possible. SoCal is very very expensive, starting with gas.

Water and power will kill you. I live in Boston now, not exactly what I would call cheap and it's less than half of what I paid in Pasadena.

Rents are obscene.

The heat truly is unbearable, but varies TREMENDOUSLY by how far you are from the ocean. Pasadena is very east and so sweltering. I would say uncomfortable to be outside from April thru December. Seriously uncomfortable. When I'd go to the beach it would be overcast and chilly! Return to Pasadena? Unbearable.

People are either nice, reasonable, friendly or rod up their asses assholes. For example, I have a sweet old American Bulldog, a retired service dog from the muscular dystrophy association, and the Pasadena cops BROKE MY DOOR IN looking for him on the strength of an anonymous complaint that I was housing a giant, vicious pitt bull. Bully breeds have now been banned from Pasadena entirely.

So, bottom line. As with all things, life in LA is what you make it, but the odds are stacked a little higher against you there......

Dear Lurker Frau, are you still in Pasadena?

[quote]I'd take Portland over LA [R130]. It has a cool concentrated urban core that is easy to explore on foot and by public transportation. An amazing craft beer, great restaurants.

I'll give you the beer (LA is not a beer town), but LA has 1,000 more and better restaurants (especially the ethnic variety).

[quote]I spend only as much time as I must to work, visit family and friends and then I get the hell out of that shit hole.

I get that some people don't like LA, and that is totally valid (especially the traffic). But I don't get you folks who can't find anything worthwhile or stimulating to do in the city. I mean, really? LA has a million things going on (excellent restaurants, world-class museums, a decent theater scene, music venues, excellent hiking, meet-up groups for every hobby conceivable, etc.) and you can't find a single enjoyable thing to do?

I moved to LA about 5 years ago from NYC, though I am back in NYC a lot.

NYC had gotten boring and sterile. Brooklyn is hip, but Brooklyn is far and large swaths of it have gotten very expensive and the cool parts like Bushwick are a long subway ride.

LA has gotten a lot hipper. The East Side has filled in and there's almost a gentrified strip from Los Feliz to downtown. The West Side is suburbia but I don't mind that and the beach is near. Unless you need to work 9 to 5 you can find ways to avoid traffic, though it is an issue. But so are subways that break down and half-hour Uber rides to go 12 blocks in NYC.

Life is just easier in LA. The weather is almost always nice. If it's hot there are pools and beaches. People have more space and you can be outside much of the year. It cools off at night for sleeping.

I would never leave.

Due to geography, there are very few natural west coast US harbors/ports.

San Diego, San Francisco, Portland and Seattle

Los Angeles had no natural harbor. So it built one. It's 100% man-made but became the largest port in the US only because of 2 low passes over the mountains that allow freight trains to travel east.

I'm R138 and I wanted to add that if I were in a career where I was never going to make a lot of money (say over $100K/year) I would not want to live in LA, NYC, SF or any other major city. I'd find some smaller city where the cost of living was much cheaper and where I could live well on a high school teacher or postman's salary.

It's not the largest US port. The Mississippi River between the Gulf of Mexico and Baton Rouge handles three times the combined tonnage of Los Angeles and Long Beach, and that's not including the giant Louisiana Offshore Oil Port. Various Houston area ports also handle double Los Angeles and Long Beach combined.

The Santa Ana winds are blowing full force in LA today! That means the devil is loose in LA! Beware of freaky shit happening today

Bump

r141 is on crack.

LA is #1, Long Beach is #8 (and they both share the same artificial harbor)

Pasadena is nice but hot and expensive. It is one of the few parts of LA that I like. I didn't realize that Boston was cheaper than Pasadena.

Boston may be cheaper but then you have to live amongst Bostonians.

It's the best foodie city in America. Cheap, too. There is so much variety that it is not so trend driven as other places, and it is cheaper, too.

No, no, no, R144. Your numbers are totally wrong. Here are the correct numbers. You can tell my numbers are correct because New York ranks higher than Los Angeles. LA will always be inferior to New York.

I take nothing away from LA, but in Philly we do have the Barnes Foundation, with its great collection of post-impressionism and early modern art. Plus, there is more to food here than cheesesteaks and pretzels. Besides, central Bucks County is a short drive away. I still like CA, however.

Philadelphia is a nice city with good people, but the problem is often that the residents don't realize the quality of their institutions and their citizens, and walk around with chips on their shoulders while letting the worst of their communities set the tone.

Boston is cheaper for water, energy, food (but you have to shop well'). Rents are comparable. Alcohol is way cheaper in CA. People are waaaaay nicer in Boston, except for Cambridge of course. Traffic in Boston is. WAAAAY worse than LA.

LA Tar pits!

[quote]Plus, there is more to food here than cheesesteaks and pretzels.

Check out any of the Vetri restaurants. I'm especially fond of Lo Spiedo.

El Nino has brought super warm water this year- surfing has been glorious this summer/fall- it's still 70 degrees. I'm paying $1600 for a 2bd/2 ba in West Hollywood, behind the PDC. My commute to work (I work in the entertainment industry, so I work at different locations all the time) is no more than 30 minutes usually.

Life is great.

Lanes 3, 4 closed on southbound I-5 after driver ejected onto freeway sign

R155, I went to a site for the news on that. They had another angle of the guy on the freeway sign and you could see the blood on sheet and it was a hell of a lot.

Yeah -- the force required not only to be ejected from the car, but to be thrown that high, plus the force of the impact against the metal sign support framework wouldn't be too kind to a human body.

R157, it was a one car accident. Wonder how fast he was going.

With the traffic mess on the freeway that day, there better be a dead body on the ground - or in the air in this case.

It happened at 7am -- I'll bet the kid was late for work.

RIP

Around 7 a.m. on Friday, a Toyota Prius was seen driving at high speeds on the southbound side of the 5 Freeway near Glendale, when the car crashed into another car carrying three passengers, reports ABC 7. The Prius then rolled multiple times, during which the body of the driver was ejected from the car and catapulted up onto the platform of the freeway sign for the Colorado Street exit.

California Highway Patrol (CHP) confirmed that the driver—who has not yet been identified—died at the scene. CHP said the driver was not wearing a seat belt. The body of the victim, covered in a white sheet, remained on the sign's platform as of 9 a.m., reports KTLA.

They just got him down...

The interesting moral of this morning's story about "What's it like to live in Los Angeles?" is that, before The Great Immigrant Surge, accidents like this used to happen all the time -- with less traffic, there was more room to speed, but not unlimited vistas, so when cars crashed, the wreckage was a doozy.

Now, traffic is usually too slow for such carnage, but when it does happen now, you can bet it was a immigrant behind the wheel.

[quote] Now, traffic is usually too slow for such carnage, but when it does happen now, you can bet it was a immigrant behind the wheel.

Since he was driving a Prius, that's highly doubtful.

Armenian is the current guess here -- maybe Asian.

Remember, too, he was 20 and young people love to speed, whatever they are.

[quote] Armenian is the current guess here

No, they all drive BMWs and Mercedes in Glendale.

LA Times article states that it was a Ford Fiesta, not a Prius.

I guess it will be a while before they sort it all out -- I wonder what happened with the other car and those people (three in a Toyota)

R47/r53 is a typical ignorant racist. If you've ever taken public transportation in LA, you would know that 75% of the riders are hard working immigrants en route to their service jobs where they forced to take care of privileged white racists who have no idea how hard they work and for so little pay. They can't afford to make solo trips in their cars to work, so even when they drive, they carpool out of sheer economic necessity.

r169 = Jewish, still trying to make "seedy" into "vibrant."..

R149 here. Unfortunately, you are correct, R150. And Philly has so very much to offer.

The deceased was 20-year-old Richard Pananian.

Told ya.

@steephaaniee___ hour ago Los Angeles, CA

R.I.P to @LAPD_Cadets Pananian from North Hollywood Division.

Link to r173

R169 Shut up. Just shut the living fuck UP.

[quote]Hell on Earth, by my estimation.

Why does everyone keep moving here then?

GO AWAY! WE'RE FULL!

More people are moving away than moving there.

More American people are moving away than moving there.

Fixed it.

Swimmin' pools, movie stars.

[qutoe]More people are moving away than moving there.

Tell that to the real estate prices.

Sounds like L.A. is a lot like New York City. If you're rich, it's fabulous. If you're not, it's hell

@CurtisXxrbin 3 hours ago

Victim in fatal crash on Golden State (5) Freeway identified as 20-year-old Armenian man, and no one is surprised...

I doubt Boston traffic is worse than LA traffic.

Re: the poor guy who ended up hanging from the freeway sign. As soon as I heard the story, I knew he was Armenian (and I was right). Poor kid, though.

L.A. proved too much for the man....

Bumpety-do

Living in LA means it is November 1st and it's still 80 degrees out.

It's too hot here. I am tired of this heat.

It's going to be cold here starting Monday. Days will be in the 70's and nites in the 50's. People will be wearing wool, heavy coats and gloves. Especially the females. The arrival of fall always triggers dramatic outer wear changes.

I'm ready to bring out the sweaters and light jackets, too.

Angelenos just want an excuse to bring out the coats and scarves they never get to wear, R189.

R191 Don't forget the furs, dahlink!

I wear sweaters because my office is so damn cold.

Lamb sacrifice performed for man 5 days before he was ejected onto freeway sign

Now his family is trying to raise $50,000 for "unexpected financial burdens.” GoFundMe pages have been set up by Pananian's family and their co-workers described the 20-year-old as "one of the most friendly, giving, compassionate people you would ever meet."

So far, more than $15,000 has been raised in the effort to assist his family members, who are "facing many unexpected financial burdens," according to the family’s page.

Sad about that young man... Armenians really teach their sons and young men not to drive like speed-demons, though, or at least to wear a seatbelt. Although I guess all (most) young men under 25 drive like overly testeroned a-holes.

Armenians -- what it is like to live in LA

What a grisly ending for anyone and especially horrific if you were to be a family member having to live through it or watch it in the media.

The 50K goal through GoFundMe set up by the cousin sounded a little excessive. In reality, it's probably not excessive when the legal estate of the 20yo gets a bill from CA state and/or LA County. If he was still a legal dependent of his parents, they get the bill.

CA requires all drivers involved in an accident (even if you're not at fault) to file a report with the state when total damages exceed a certain $ amount. I think it's 5000. On the report you have to list the damages to your vehicle as well as any damage to county/state property such as utility poles, traffic signs, stop signs, etc. His car was probably worth at least that, plus damage to guard rails, accident clean-up, towing, efforts to remove his body from exit sign platform, etc. Obviously, he can't file the claim but his estate or parents (if he was a legal dependent) will be responsible.

They should wait until the final bills from all obligations have been received before doing GoFundMe. It might help them raise more money with definite costs vs. speculative costs.

Lamb's revenge...

r197 -- isn't that what insurance is for?

How did the Pacicif electric red cars get over the hill from Hollywood to the Valley? The Cahuenga Pass?

Yes r200

Snow in LA

Today's the first day in a long time when it's not going to get over 70, so I'm finally doing some cooking and baking.

Not the worst ending possible. He got to experience flight, after all.

Probably a good view as he was expiring waiting on the fat asses of the fire department.

I just secured my place in hell. r204 made me laugh so hard.

Word is, when he first landed on the sign, he looked like he was sitting up, waving, as his body twitched,

Oh!

Better link

I loved LA until the zombies arrived.

After bizarre freeway sign death, a spotlight on misunderstood church tradition of 'sacrifice'

[quote] How did the Pacicif electric red cars get over the hill from Hollywood to the Valley? The Cahuenga Pass?

Yes. See pic at link.

LA is just overcrowded. Sure there are lots of cool things to do, there are just A LOT of people doing them..I went to Disneyland on gaydays and it was insane. They parked us at some off site parking garage and bussed us in (after still charging 17 bucks to park) and everything had insane wait times and there was just a crush of people.

But then you go hike deep into the Angeles, and you're the only soul there for miles.

[quote] They parked us at some off site parking garage and bussed us in

Even before they built California Adventure on the original Disneyland parking lot and other areas acquired, there was always a parking lot tram to take you to the front gate. Because no matter when you got there, you always seemed to get stuck parking in "Z for Zippity-Fucking-Doo-Dah"

It's just amazing to think that we're spending BILLIONS of dollars to essentially recreate what was here years ago with the Red Cars. And even when it's all done, it still won't go to as many places as the old lines did, despite the fact that the population is probably triple what it was in the Red Cars' heyday.

LA is a mixed bag, large swaths of it are crappy but generally you can get the best of cosmopolitan life and natural scenery. If you can find your area and your circle it will be a nice experience. There's a lot to like and a lot to hate. You have to visit and feel it out to know if it's for you.

I've considered going back.

Tacos

LA does have the best tacos in the country, and actually, the best in the world outside of Mexico.

Pacific Red Cars, waiting to become scrap metal, Terminal Island, 1956.

Interesting history of Cahuenga Pass, with amazing pictures, at link. (click on Museum icon if you like LA Historical Photos, there is a huge collection)

Interesting links, R221. But the red car is long gone and lost forever, folks - what we're left with is cray cray Metro. How many homeless schizos are stinking up your bus or redline car right now?

From r221's collection

Griffith Observatory

R219 And Chinese food in the San Gabriel Valley.

All of this makes us homesick - should we return to LA - the scene of our greatest triumphs - after 15 years away?

Best LA movies in which the city is a character?

As a non-resident, my favourite 5 are HEAT, MULHOLLAND DRIVE, CHINATOWN, REBEL WITHOUT A CAUSE, BOOGIE NIGHTS and SHOPGIRL. All have a hint of beauty and a lot of darkness.

And from TV (of all things) THE CLOSER. Brenda Leigh Johnson's fish out of water smashing into the city was so fun to watch.

R227 LA Confidential

NASHVILLE

WELCOME TO LA

THE LONG GOODBYE

Helter Skelter (1975)

Best LA song: [italic] LA Woman [/italic]

LA song: Tom Cruise in (non-LA) movie JERRY MAGUIRE has etched FREE FALLIN' into my psyche - whenever I hear it in the car, I have to sing loud and proud whilst possibly serenading other drivers at traffic lights.

LA sucks.

Another great LA song: L.A. Song by Beth Hart. Saw her at some dive club on Pico, I think. Paid $5 and sat by one of the Backstreet Boys -- the one with the beard. She is amazing. That whole album Screamin' For My Supper is awesome.

El Norte

We might have another serial killer on the east side -- here are two of the latest pretty young Latinas found dead:

One was just a week or two from giving birth.

[quote] How many homeless schizos are stinking up your bus or redline car right now?

None, since unless they have a monthly pass or the fare, they can't get on them.

r237, posting from his car.

No, R237..sorry to disappoint you. Though I'm an LA native and still maintain a residence there, I don't currently live in the states. But having used the Metro and Metrolink there on numerous occasions, they have since changed their MO and you can't get on a Metro train unless you scan a valid pass at the turnstyle. Same with the bus.

Sorry..I meant to address to R238

Well somehow they always find their way onto the redline... Turnstiles or not

On my one LA bus adventure, I took so long digging for change (just under 7 seconds) that the black bus driver told me to get on. I had the money, but hey, super nice of him. (Bear in mind I am of a certain pigmentation.) I then had a conversation with a Jewish lady who gave me deli recommendations.

Who here stays on the Westside?

Our last LA residence was on the Marina Peninsula, where we often entertained 'generou$ gentlemen'!

[quote]LaCienega, LaBrea, and Sepulveda are great alternate routes to the infamous 405 freeway. I used to even drive Figueroa to avoid the 110 at times too.

Are you joking? Those streets are just as miserable and backed up as the freeways.

Just avoid the valley at all costs.

It's not so "bitchen"

It's not very central Mrs. PC. How did you entice them so far out of the way?

maybe not central but very nice and expensive!

Any WeHo gays here? how do you like the gayborhood?

WeHo = Strollerville these days.

Mrs. PC has moved on but the beat goes on in Marina del Rey.

What's wrong with Valley? I actually have no idea.

R252 Living in the Valley is one of those things where it almost beats the point of living in LA, you get all of the cons and not many of the Pros. There are some nice areas like Calabasas but still generally its boring, hot and still expensive.

The San Fernando is where the Midwestern people aghast at the (few) brown and yellow people, and rumors of black people, ran to keep Aryan.

Up there, there were some Mexicans in Pacoima and a few blacks in Van Nuys, and they liked that. They could pretend they were still in Omaha.

The Valley can get very hot. Africa hot.

People who live in the valley, ALWAYS go to the west side.

People who live in the west side, NEVER go to the valley.

It's like New Jersey.

[quote]What's wrong with Valley? I actually have no idea.

It's where gay men learn how to talk.

Good luck escaping the Mexicans & Armenians in the Valley.

I was on La Brea today. It was slow moving. I hate driving and the sprawl and traffic here. Can't wait to leave.

R239, you can get on any of the Metro red, orange, or gold lines without paying. The only reason anyone bothers to do so is in case the marshalls get on and scan the TAP cards. That rarely happens.

The Valley is hot, like Africa hot - I had a place in Van Nuys when I first moved here...then We Ho...We Ho quickly got taken over by the breeders with money. We made it all nice and clean and they came in....When i first moved here Thousand Oaks and Pasedena seemed like another country ..now...it all seems like suburbs.

I don't get the appeal of WeHo. The Valley is depressing. Pasadena is nice.

WeHo was the place...before it got gentrified. Hot gay men everywhere. The gyms, the stores the clubs, the restaurants...Hell you could get laid going to Ralphs.

All the nice poor areas got overrun by Mexicans. All the nice wealthy areas got overrun by Chinese. All the nice middle class areas got overrun by Armenians and Russians.

LA used to be a string of small towns located next to each other. Now it is a clump of foreign colonies

Gayborhoods are kind of an antiquated thing now that I think about it, the hookup apps are supposed to supplement their loss I suppose. I would say that WeHo is still relatively more gay than most Gayborhoods anymore though. There's nothing gay about Chicago's Boystown anymore except for a couple of clubs and a rainbow art instillation.

West Hollywood used to be amazing. You felt like you finally belonged. It was all gay men. You were the majority.

Now the fish have invaded and it stinks.

What happened in West Hollywood isn't anything new, for some reason straight people are obsessed with our hoods. We come build a place up and then we get priced out. It's the name of the game.

When did Weho go from majority gay to majority straight?

I didn't know WeHo was mostly straight now. At any rate I don't get the appeal.

WeHo is still very gay, except for Friday and the weekend nights, when the annoying straight girls feel they somehow belong and clog up space.

Downtown is becoming the new gay alternative (to WeHo and to Silver Lake) with 3 new gay bars. But shhhhh, don't tell anyone with an xx chromosome.

Once it became "WeHo" that meant the NYC Jews had intruded, so no wonder they sold it to the Russians. They always sell out America,

We will just create another WeHo anyways. It's already happening.

Pacific Palisades has been infested with Ornamentals!

I went to WeHo on a Friday night for the first time in many years and was very dismayed by how many fish where there. So gross. They couldn't even let us have that.

Appeals court rules Obama can't block deportations of 5 million people

When the gays move in they clean up the houses, raise the property values etc...and make it attractive for the hets.

Full of Russians.

It sure isn't Jupiter Hollow.