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How the fuck did MY TWO DADS flop while FULL HOUSE succeeded?

In 1987, two sitcoms with similar premises, one on NBC, the other on ABC, premiered. One limped along for three years and the other became a hit. Yet, as is often the case in TV history, the one that became the hit wasn't necessarily the better of the two shows. And that's being extremely magnanimous.

In NBC's [italic]My Two Dads[/italic], which premiered on September 20 of that year, Paul Reiser and Greg Evigan played two men who have to live together to raise Nicole (Staci Keanan) the daughter of the now-dead woman they both slept with at the behest of a Judge (Florence Stanley). Despite the improbability of the premise and the overall mediocrity of its execution, powerful competition on CBS from the 9th ranked [italic]Murder, She Wrote[/italic] and its erratic scheduling on top of that, it still managed to rank 21st place for the year, even outranking [italic]Day By Day[/italic], the show it alternated the coveted post-[italic]Family Ties[/italic] time slot with but could only muster 43rd place; [italic]Ties[/italic] came in 17th. But [italic]Day By Day[/italic] was from the same producers as [italic]Family Ties[/italic], which gave it the advantage at renewal time; it made the fall schedule while [italic]My Two Dads[/italic] had to wait until mid-season to come back. It did make the 1989-1990 fall schedule while [italic]Day By Day[/italic] ended up being cancelled the same year its more celebrated lead-in bowed out voluntarily. But by mid-season, it kept getting moved around between Wednesday and Monday, and NBC decided it was a lost cause, so they cancelled it.

[italic]Full House[/italic]'s premise wasn't particularly outlandish in and of itself—a widowed dad with three daughters asks their two uncles to come live with him in San Francisco and help him raise them—but the dismally poor quality of its execution belied its eventual ratings success with children, religious fundamentalists, the severely mentally disabled, and people who will someday be legally forbidden to live anywhere near a public school. Its popularity was such that it is even getting a sequel series in defiance of popular demand. I needn't bother to reiterate its monumental artistic shortcomings; there's a review blog that does just that episode-by-episode by someone with a will of iron and the self-esteem of a martyr. I will point out that they wanted Paul Reiser, but since [italic]Two Dads[/italic] got him first, they had to settle for Bob Saget, who at least knew shit when he smelt it but still shut up and cashed the check anyway.

In its first season, [italic]Full House[/italic] ranked three whole ratings points below [italic]Webster[/italic], the show it replaced that ran for another two years in first-run syndication anyway despite still pulling better ratings in its last ABC season than [italic]Full House[/italic]'s first. Coincidentally, Chad Allen had appeared on [italic]Webster[/italic] in a recurring role before NBC cast him in [italic]Our House[/italic], which also aired on Sunday nights and overlapped with [italic]Two Dads[/italic]' first season. In its final season, Chad got cast as Staci Keanan's "bad boy" boyfriend; to that show's writers, being a "bad boy" meant wearing torn jeans and driving a motorcycle and had little to do with actual social rebellion.

Another coincidence is that a year after the dust had settled, Staci Keanan ended up on Miller-Boyett's almost equally awful neo-[italic]Brady Bunch[/italic] wannabe [italic]Step By Step[/italic], the show that rose from the ashes of [italic]Dallas[/italic] and [italic]She's The Sheriff[/italic] and got [italic]Full House[/italic] moved to Tuesdays.

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by Anonymousreply 86February 20, 2020 6:16 PM

Today, who gives a shit about your 80's sitcom minutia, I mean really.

by Anonymousreply 1September 4, 2015 10:51 PM

All of them were awful but Full House had a bigger cast and appealed more to kids. Full House also had John Stamos who was a bigger deal than anyone in those other awful shows.

by Anonymousreply 2September 4, 2015 10:58 PM

R1: If you don't care, why do you bother posting?

by Anonymousreply 3September 4, 2015 11:01 PM

John Stamos also had an NBC show with Jack Klugman called [italic]You Again[/italic]. It started strong in the ratings in its first season but then crashed for some reason in its second season. I don't know why; I watched bits of an episode and it was a damn sight funnier than that fucking [italic]Full House[/italic]. Tartikoff should have just renewed that and put it on Sundays at 8:30. Problem solved, the further dumbing down of American sitcoms prevented.

The reason I care about this minutiae is because it answers a lot of questions about why and how certain programming and casting decisions got made. I never argued that [italic]My Two Dads[/italic] was some kind of lost masterpiece, just better than [italic]Full Fucking House[/italic] by default of being tolerable and having two actors I actually like in it. I also care because the images you see as a child will stick with you the rest of your life. That's why selling this cultural poison to kids is not just lazy and irresponsible, but borderline criminal to boot.

by Anonymousreply 4September 4, 2015 11:14 PM

Seriously, R1. This one was super skippable.

by Anonymousreply 5September 4, 2015 11:14 PM

It gets better. When they moved [italic]Full House[/italic] to Tuesdays and put on [italic]Home Improvement[/italic], they moved [italic]Who's The Boss[/italic] and [italic]Growing Pains[/italic], two shows I also would shed no tears over losing if they had never existed, to Saturday at 8 and 8:30. That same year, NBC moved [italic]The Golden Girls[/italic] from 9:00 PM to 8:00 PM where it fell three-and-a-half ratings points and from 12th place to 31st, but it still had enough ratings pull to stick a pasta fork in Tony and Angela's excruciatingly boring on-again, off-again romance once and for all.

by Anonymousreply 6September 4, 2015 11:24 PM

Greg Evigan was as hot as Uncle Sexxy.

by Anonymousreply 7September 4, 2015 11:35 PM

You think they would have actually made gay if it hadn't been for AIDS setting back out gay characters on TV a decade?

by Anonymousreply 8September 4, 2015 11:36 PM

Im with you R7, Evigan was hot

by Anonymousreply 9September 4, 2015 11:48 PM

It was stupid from the get go. I mean Greg Evigan is not a Jew. The kid is not a Jew. Paul Reiser is ONE BIG JEW. So how hard is it to figure out who the father is?

by Anonymousreply 10September 4, 2015 11:52 PM

It's really not that complicated, OP. Full House had the more varied cast and storylines. Kids of all ages could relate to one of the kids on the show. It was silly and simple and so cute you could barf but that sells a lot of toys and cereal.

My Two Dads was a much more limited concept. The main girl was a bit older so she didn't appeal to the young kids. Evigan was hot but he just never really had that 'it' factor to make him a star. Reiser had a fluke hit with Mad About You but his appeal is even more limited.

by Anonymousreply 11September 4, 2015 11:57 PM

Saget just earned a tiny iota of my respect:

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by Anonymousreply 12September 4, 2015 11:59 PM

I can't even recall what channel My Two Dads was originally on since I equate it more w/ the USA Network that always ran the reruns.

I do remember Chad Allen on the show playing the rebel. If the show was update today Chad's character would probably only have Nicole as his beard so he could get closer to her two dads and become a "thruple."

The only thing memorable about My Two Dads was the artsy loft where the painter dad lived w/ the purple truck chair, the bicycle table, and that bed that you had to open up which looked uncomfortable as hell.

by Anonymousreply 13September 5, 2015 12:02 AM

I actually kind of liked Florence Stanley's character, but that had more to do with her performance than any of the scripts, which were about average at best.

by Anonymousreply 14September 5, 2015 12:06 AM

[quote]I actually kind of liked Florence Stanley's

You're quite correct, she was always good, but she rocked out when she played Fish's wife. Abe and her were one of the best on screen couples ever.

by Anonymousreply 15September 5, 2015 12:43 AM

R12, and then he undoes it with the gushy comments about that homophobic cunt Candace Cameron.

[quote] The comedian - whose new memoir, "Dirty Daddy," is in stores now - also said he's watching "Dancing with the Stars" faithfully this season to support his fellow "Full House" alum Candace Cameron Bure. "I am [watching], and I'm voting... people gotta vote for her!" he said. "She's amazing on this thing. She's a beautiful girl. Adding, "And her husband's beautiful - he's got a 19-pack! I want her to win."

by Anonymousreply 16September 5, 2015 1:16 AM

As far as My Two Dads is concerned, why didn't they just get a blood test to figure out which one was the father?

by Anonymousreply 17September 5, 2015 1:28 AM

If I recall they eventually did but they all decided to tear up the results before they looked at them....ugh...why is it I can remember this shit but other more important things I couldn't remember for the life of me.

by Anonymousreply 18September 5, 2015 1:31 AM

Full House followed a set formula each week.

Basically the script had to revolve around the following bits of dialogue:

Uncle Jesse: Have Mercy!

Stephanie: How rude!

Joey: Cut. It. Out.

Michelle: You're in big trouble, mister!

Michelle: You got it, dude!

DJ: Oh Mylanta!

by Anonymousreply 19September 5, 2015 1:40 AM

I do remember My Two Dads being significantly more bearable than the other terrible shows referenced here. By 80s shitcom standards, it was above average. I think of it more in comparison to My Sister Sam, than Full House.

by Anonymousreply 20September 5, 2015 1:42 AM

[quote]If I recall they eventually did but they all decided to tear up the results before they looked at them

What's wrong with that?

by Anonymousreply 21September 5, 2015 1:45 AM

I'm always trying to remember, on NBC Saturday nights in the '80s, what came on right before Golden Girls? Wasn't the lineup Facts of Life, something, Golden Girls, Empty Nest, and then Hunter? Was the show between FOL and GG that thing called Harry and the Hendersons?

by Anonymousreply 22September 5, 2015 2:48 AM

R22, it was 227, Amen, Golden Girls and Empty Nest on Saturday nights.

by Anonymousreply 23September 5, 2015 3:06 AM

R23: That was the line-up the year after [italic]Facts[/italic] went off the air.

by Anonymousreply 24September 5, 2015 3:08 AM

Did Davy Jones and Herman's Hermits appear on My Two Dads? I vaguely remember this.

I do remember a My Two Dads episode where the daughter's slutty friend was hitting on both Dads. Kinda creepy.

by Anonymousreply 25September 5, 2015 3:14 AM

R25 was that Chad Allen hitting on both of the dads in that episode?

by Anonymousreply 26September 5, 2015 3:35 AM

Considering the size of Paul Reiser's moose knuckle in those jeans, could you blame him?

by Anonymousreply 27September 5, 2015 3:46 AM

If this show had been a hit, it would have made my brilliant, Emmy-winning triumph in the classic sitcom [italic]Mad About You[/italic] impossible.

by Anonymousreply 28September 5, 2015 3:47 AM

[quote]As far as My Two Dads is concerned, why didn't they just get a blood test to figure out which one was the father?

DNA testing was in it's infancy back then. Even around the OJ Simpson trial it was still perceived as unreliable. Before that a blood test could only rule OUT a father, it couldn't tell you if you were the father.

by Anonymousreply 29September 5, 2015 3:49 AM

Reiser is also memorable as the villain in Aliens. Didn't care for Mad About You at all though.

by Anonymousreply 30September 5, 2015 3:49 AM

[quote]As far as My Two Dads is concerned, why didn't they just get a blood test to figure out which one was the father?

They should've had a Very Special Episode with guest star Maury Povich.

by Anonymousreply 31September 5, 2015 5:38 AM

[quote]As far as My Two Dads is concerned, why didn't they just get a blood test to figure out which one was the father?

IIRC, they did on the final episode and she decided she didn't care and tore up the test results.

Honestly, as a young gayling I had a thing for Greg Evigan. He is really the only person I remember from that show. Who knew the kid would grow up to be a knock out? She is barely recognizable.

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by Anonymousreply 32September 5, 2015 6:04 AM

If found younger Paul Reiser - Aliens, My 2 Dads, EARLY days of Mad About You - kinda hot.

by Anonymousreply 33September 5, 2015 6:29 AM

I remember My two dads and thinking, as a child, that it made no sense. I just thought the dads were supposed to be gay but the show wouldn't go there.

Full House at least had a reasonable premise of relatives living together.

by Anonymousreply 34September 5, 2015 6:53 AM

[quote]Full House at least had a reasonable premise of relatives living together.

The concept wasn't the problem; the execution of that concept was.

by Anonymousreply 35September 5, 2015 9:01 AM

[quote]I just thought the dads were supposed to be gay but the show wouldn't go there.

And [italic]Full House[/italic] was set in San Francisco. In real life, three men living together in SF is called a "menage-a-trois."

by Anonymousreply 36September 5, 2015 9:03 AM

"Empty Nest" -- now there's a show whose unwatchable awfulness deserves a thread. Closet case Richard Mulligan, screwup Kristy McNichol, and Lee Grants untalented daughter.

by Anonymousreply 37September 5, 2015 1:41 PM

I loved both Kristy and Dinah Manoff. They were an awesome team. The problem was once Kristy left, they allowed Carol (Dinah's character) to take over. While the character was funny, she was annoying and irritating too. Kristy's character would take her down a peg constantly and that made Dinah's character all the better. Once Kristy left, Carol was horrible.

by Anonymousreply 38September 5, 2015 3:30 PM

R32, It looks like she has had work done, a nose job perhaps...as well as a boob job. It looks like she took the Jennifer "Dirty Dancing' Grey" way of no longer being recognizable.

by Anonymousreply 39September 5, 2015 3:34 PM

Agree with r38; if only they'd gotten rid of the annoying David Leisure, it would've been a perfect show.

by Anonymousreply 40September 5, 2015 3:41 PM

How about when "Empty Nest" (which is rerunning ad nauseam on LAFF right now) brought in Sophia Petrillo as a regular during the last couple of seasons?

by Anonymousreply 41September 5, 2015 5:15 PM

"My Sister Sam" was my favourite comedy during the late '80s boom of family comedies. I was disappointed when it was cancelled and then a year later after the cancellation, Rebecca Schaeffer was murdered.

by Anonymousreply 42September 5, 2015 5:25 PM

[quote]Full Fucking House

Is that the porn version?

by Anonymousreply 43September 5, 2015 5:34 PM

R41, I thought it was sad because they had Sophia living in Shady Pines.

by Anonymousreply 44September 5, 2015 6:48 PM

Apparently Shady Pines had a very liberal "come-and-go" policy and free transportation to the Westons' house because Sophia seemed to drop in every day.

by Anonymousreply 45September 5, 2015 7:02 PM

"Paul Reiser and Greg Evigan played two men who have to live together to raise Nicole (Staci Keanan) the daughter of the now-dead woman they both slept with at the behest of a Judge (Florence Stanley)."

Why had the judge wanted both of them to sleep with the woman?

by Anonymousreply 46September 5, 2015 7:50 PM

[quote]How about when "Empty Nest" (which is rerunning ad nauseam on LAFF right now) brought in Sophia Petrillo as a regular during the last couple of seasons?

This made me remember that while Empty Nest was a spinoff of The Golden Girls which later was Golden Palace that Empty Nest had a spinoff called, "Nurses" which took place at the same hospital Harry worked at. I vaguely remembered all three shows had cross overs and a storyline at one point relating to a storm that hit on all three shows at the same time.

Also as a little gay kid I remember being in love with the theme song from Nurses. In fact, I still remember the lyrics.

As for My Two Dads, I went back and refreshed my memory of the final episodes and what a dick move that one of her dads actually left her with one of her two dads and moved across the country to be with an old girlfriend her kid. It brought back memories of how shitty that was and it's even worse in retrospect. "I may be your father but I met this girl I used to know so you stay here with this guy who may or may not be your father so BYE!"

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by Anonymousreply 47September 6, 2015 7:42 AM

I mostly wondered what happened in the homes when the kids weren't home. All those attractive grown men... Maybe walking around with a towel on after a shower... maybe they brush up against each other for a second or two too long... They're grown men with needs.

by Anonymousreply 48September 6, 2015 2:24 PM

R32: Kellie Pickler was on "My Two Dads?"

by Anonymousreply 49September 6, 2015 2:45 PM

My Two Dads was originally called Who's The Dad, but NBC changed it before it first aired, as they though it too similar to "Who's The Boss?"

by Anonymousreply 50September 6, 2015 3:54 PM

What is the big mystery? Full House had a more marketable formula: catchy theme song, children of all ages who different audiences could relate to, three different adult personalities viewers could relate to (preachy and neat Danny, joker Joey, suave Jesse). That doesn't mean it was better quality, just that it met all the requirements to potentially become a massive hit with John and Jane Doe. And it did. Very rarely do ratings coincide with high quality material, OP. Do you think Baywatch and Jerry Springer got high ratings because the American public sought out quality programming?

by Anonymousreply 51September 6, 2015 5:54 PM

We think the answer to OPs question is quite obvious.

by Anonymousreply 52September 6, 2015 5:56 PM

[quote]I do remember Chad Allen on the show playing the rebel. If the show was update today Chad's character would probably only have Nicole as his beard so he could get closer to her two dads and become a "thruple."

What America do you live in, R13? That would never get greenlit. Only the title MY TWO DADS, perhaps, but it would be a sitcom about a child and her gay parents.

by Anonymousreply 53August 21, 2017 3:23 AM

Full House was part of the network's TGIF (thank God its Fri line up).

My Two Dads aired on Sunday night, a kind of depressing show for a kind of depressing night of the week.

by Anonymousreply 54August 21, 2017 3:56 AM

John Stamos had that huge General Hospital following.

by Anonymousreply 55August 21, 2017 3:57 AM

Horsin' Around, BoJack's hit sitcom from BoJack Horseman seems to be based on Full House and how trite and awful it was.

by Anonymousreply 56August 21, 2017 4:00 AM

The title. Nuff said. Middle America won't bout to let two quasi gumps raise a family. I'm in the military now with a bunch of twenty something millennials who voted for trump. You'd be surprised at how homophobic they are.

by Anonymousreply 57August 21, 2017 4:01 AM

I loved My Two Dads, great show.

by Anonymousreply 58August 21, 2017 4:09 AM

My Two Dads had a better theme song.

by Anonymousreply 59August 21, 2017 4:29 AM

[quote]My Two Dads was originally called Who's The Dad, but NBC changed it before it first aired, as they though it too similar to "Who's The Boss?"

Ha! Way to make the title totally gay, NBC!

I saw a couple of episodes of "My Two Dads" on the Decades channel a few weeks ago. Chad Allen's character was hardly a "bad boy." He was a preppie type, more like Zach from "Saved By The Bell." Giovanni Ribisi play his rival for whatserface's affections.

Hey, it's on right now!

by Anonymousreply 60August 21, 2017 6:04 AM

[quote]Giovanni Ribisi play his rival for whatserface's affections.

Whose?

by Anonymousreply 61August 21, 2017 6:06 AM

[quote] I'm in the military now with a bunch of twenty something millennials who voted for trump. You'd be surprised at how homophobic they are.

Military.

Trump supporters.

No we wouldn't be surprised .

by Anonymousreply 62August 21, 2017 6:06 AM

Chad Allen's last show before this, [italic]Our House[/italic], was the show NBC cancelled [italic]Silver Spoons[/italic] and [italic]Punky Brewster[/italic] for when ABC brought Disney back—thanks to the dark arts of demographics, they could take the ratings hits from Mike Wallace, but not from Mickey Mouse—then it in turn got cancelled when Disney moved back to NBC where it had been for 20 years! And even back in its old time slot, Disney lasted only two years on NBC.

by Anonymousreply 63August 21, 2017 6:15 AM

Greg Evigan was so hot. His son Jason is a successful songwriter.

by Anonymousreply 64August 21, 2017 6:22 AM

Actually, it's on Antenna TV, not Decades, right now. On now: Joey is challenged by his father to sell a painting, or start working in the family business, plumbing. Coming up: Michael is shocked when he learns that his love interest is Judge Wilbur's engaged niece.

by Anonymousreply 65August 21, 2017 6:27 AM

I only liked Evigan when he was on BJ AND THE BEAR. Didn't care for his looks in MY TWO DADS. Not a big fan of facial hair, especially when it covers a beautiful face like his.

by Anonymousreply 66August 21, 2017 6:31 AM

Paul Reiser wants to distance himself from this show for some reason it seems.

by Anonymousreply 67October 21, 2018 7:58 PM

Shows with a shitload of kids tend to do better than shows with one kid. It is that simple.

by Anonymousreply 68October 21, 2018 8:01 PM

R20 genetics is not that simple. I mean, look at Halsey, who would earth would peg her as biracial?

by Anonymousreply 69October 21, 2018 8:06 PM

R10 I meant that for r10 . What I meant to say was genetics is not that simple. Who would guess that Halsey is biracial?

by Anonymousreply 70October 21, 2018 8:08 PM

Arguably MTD does better in syndication than MAY.

by Anonymousreply 71October 21, 2018 8:39 PM

Totally agree with R57, the title caused a sizeable portion of the audience to stay away from it.

The book title “Heather Has Two Mommies” was probably the final nail in that coffin when it was published in 89.

by Anonymousreply 72October 21, 2018 8:41 PM

R71 what's MAY?

by Anonymousreply 73October 21, 2018 8:59 PM

Mad About You

by Anonymousreply 74October 21, 2018 9:08 PM

Joey left Nicole at the end of the show.

I thought she could count on him.

by Anonymousreply 75October 21, 2018 11:38 PM

R22 I fucking loved HARRY & THE HENDERSONS as a kid, more than these other shows. It was syndicated on Fox in the '90s.

Looking back I'm not exactly sure why I enjoyed a show that is slow and predictable by today's sitcom yardstick. It's not surprising or intelligent in the slightest, and at the time got unfavorable comparisons to ALF. It's still got a little Narm Charm on it, though, and it's clever and dark how the Henderson family thought they ran over and killed Harry in the opening seconds of the pilot.

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by Anonymousreply 76October 22, 2018 12:04 AM

I remember there were three men cast as Harry during the run of the show. The first guy that played him in the movie died of AIDS after the first season. The second guy only played him for Season 2, for some reason. Then they got a third to finish out Season 3. Weird.

by Anonymousreply 77October 23, 2018 12:56 PM

They broke up the two dads on the final episode kinda like Felix and Oscar.

by Anonymousreply 78December 16, 2018 12:23 AM

I'm not saying either one was great television but I thought My Two Dads was the better of the two.

by Anonymousreply 79December 16, 2018 12:26 AM

"the daughter of the now-dead woman they both slept with at the behest of a Judge "

I wanna know why the judge asked them both to sleep with the same woman.

by Anonymousreply 80December 16, 2018 12:41 AM

Sorry, I'm not opposed to people talking about old tv shows they liked, but the in-depth analysis of the relative merits and success of two very mediocre 30-year old television situation comedies suggests that it might be time for the OP to take up knitting or gardening or volunteering at the church jumble sale.

by Anonymousreply 81December 16, 2018 12:48 AM

I've been watching My Two Dad's in reruns lately and it's MUCH better and funnier than people give it credit for

It's better written than most of those late 80s family sitcom dreck

It has a very biting, smart , sarcastic edge to it, that surprised me as I was expecting some Full House shmaltzy writing crap

Characters talk really fast, and the one liners and quips just flow on this show Florence Stanley is hilarious , even in episodes where her part is small

I remember reading that this show actually got good/decent reviews from TV critics when it debuted, but NBC never got it a good time slot and it never really took off

by Anonymousreply 82February 20, 2020 9:23 AM

I don't understand what sort of demographic Full House went for. Did kids back then really care for all these endless cameos of The Beach Boys? I mean obviously it was done to please John Stamos, but for a kids show it didn't make much sense.

Loved Nurses with David Rasche (Sledge Hammer, the pro-gun, misogynistic douche of a cop) as some rich villain who had to do community service at the hospital. And I liked their will they / won't they couple. I remember Betty White's Rose did a crossover guest appearance on the show.

by Anonymousreply 83February 20, 2020 10:03 AM

a few fun facts: HARRY AND THE HENDERSONS was a syndicated show that because of the specific deal, got three seasons greenlit from day 1. i dont think that ever happened again.

Full House is a CHILDREN'S SHOW. You cant watch it today and wonder why it lasted longer than any other specific show. It worked for children. It should not be entertaining to adults.

by Anonymousreply 84February 20, 2020 10:41 AM

Those kids who watched Full House are middle-aged adults now ... and should be slapped viciously. Did you watch Full House? Yes? *slapslapslapslapslap* YOU ARE THE REASON WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS!

by Anonymousreply 85February 20, 2020 1:41 PM

[quote]It was syndicated on Fox in the '90s.

That's contradictory. If it was syndicated, it was not on Fox.

by Anonymousreply 86February 20, 2020 6:16 PM
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