The Turning Point (1977)

Audrey Hepburn wanted Anne Bancroft's part, and always regretted she didn't get it. She would have been so much better, since she actually has the body of a dancer and had ballet training. But, maybe Herbert Ross thought she couldn't be bitchy enough.

THis has never come out on dvd/BD and it's a shame. Misha was gorgeous then!

It's classic Arthur Laurents, with women speaking lines that really gay men would speak.

R1

I thought Bancroft's body was amazing in the film. I definitely thought she looked the part.

Misha was definitely gorgeous but for me his body was at his peak a few years later.

He did a TV special (the name escapes me) and he was utter perfection.

Hands down his ass and thighs have always been the best I've ever seen.

What happened to Leslie Brown after that movie. It was supposed to make her a star or that was the buzz.

And Tom Skerritt was absolutely adorable as Shirley's loyal husband and former gay person.

"I don't count! I FEEL the music."

Loved Martha Scott as the ballet board president!!

Just read that the movie was based on Leslie Brown's (e added for her stage name) family. So her real Dad was a former gay person?

I saw this movie several times back then. It was one of those "If I love this movie I must be gay" realizations.... before I really understood myself and certainly before I understood "camp". I took it so seriously!

I thought it was Nora Kaye's life story

I thought Audrey was actually the first choice for Anne's role and she turned it down, not the other way around. If Audrey and Shirley had costarred it would have been a reunion from the 1960 The Children's Hour.

Shirley played Gittel Mosca in the film of Two for the Seesaw, a role Anne created on Broadway.

Nora Kaye was the real life godmother of the Leslie Browne character and childhood friend of Browne's mother.

This piece of crap got 11 Oscar nominations. It's not even good as camp, except for the cat fight scene.

[quote] I thought Audrey was actually the first choice for Anne's role and she turned it down, not the other way around.

Not according to imdb: "Audrey Hepburn's biggest film regret was not getting the Anne Bancroft role in The Turning Point (1977). "That was the one film", she later admitted, "that got away from me.""

Audrey would have been spectacular in it.

[quote]He did a TV special (the name escapes me) and he was utter perfection.

Baryshnikov on Broadway, guest starring Liza and Nell.

[quote]This piece of crap got 11 Oscar nominations

I think it was the first one to get so many and not win a single one. Then came The Color Purple to repeat the feat.

Netflix knows I'm gay - what with all the gay films and documentaries I watch - and not a week ago it suggested I add it to my list, so there must be a DVD released recently.

My brother and I re enacted the drink tossing scene may times.

I've had it on DVD for years but these things go in and out of print.

I'm the guy who worked for Herbert Ross for years but I have no "Turning Point" stories except that Lesley Browne was his goddaughter, I think, that's all. Nora died a few years later and he never talked about this film. But cool trivia that he directed not one but TWO Best Picture nominees that year. Not matched until Soderberg years later, I think.

More Herbert Ross stories! Did you know Lee? Did they fight in public?

"I give them hope; they give me money."

Anybody know what happened to the actor who played the son of Shirley Maclaine's character?

Did you know Nora Kaye, r20? Her Fall River Legend finally got me past the dancers to the dance.

Browne's role was actually based on Gelsey Kirkland, who was to have played the part. She was a ridiculous snob and hated the script so she descended further into anorexia. She said she was going "to make myself disappear." She weight about 70 pounds when filming came around and got booted so they hired Browne. A bit of LA lore regarding Oscar. There was a relatively small cable outfit called "Z Channel" during the 70s and beyond. Although small, it hit a very influential target audience on the Westside, many Academy voters. "Z" would often run marathons of Academy Award nominees. The year of "Turning Point", Ross for some reason did not allow it to run, the only movie nominated for "Best Picture" to be so denied. It did not win a single award and Ross often pointed to that as a primary reason TP did not win a single Oscar.

We had Z on the east side, too, r25, but probably fewer Academy members.

Maybe it was Sinatra Suites, r4:

My only good Nora Kaye story is how at an early screening of "Footloose", she said loud enough for the whole theatre to hear, "Herbert, you old fart, you made a great movie but the ending is lousy." My boss worked more with Herbert during the Nora years. I came in shortly thereafter full time around the Michael J. Fox movie time (and after "Dancers", his little discussed dance movie after "TP").

She was, by all reports, the love of his snobby life, People are always surprised when I talk about how nice Lee R. was, one of those Social Xray types, always pulled together but always very kind to me (and to the older woman, a sweetheart named Eve, who was Herbert's actual secretary). Those were my years, the TriStar ones, most notably "Steel Magnolias" which Is why I am always the Magnolias Troll on DL. Lots of cool stories behind the scenes of that one and a few of his follow ups too ("Blue Heaven", "True Colors", etc.) And then he died -- with disgustingly little fanfare. He was planning to do remake of "Women on the Verge" last time I worked with him.

Good gossip, r28. Thanks.

I would like to hear more about the other movies, r28. Behind the scenes etc.

What was going on with him to make Boys on the Side?

Fun days though I was absolutely wasted drunk for some of them, ha (sober almost 25 years now though so I can laugh about it). I would keep beer in my desk drawer and the trash can was full of Light Beer cans by the end of the day. And nobody cared! I guess because I was still functional somehow.

"Boys on the Side" came after I left (though I loved it). I remember my boss being proud of using/elevating Matthew Mc early, which I did not get at all. He's also the one who wouldn't manage Brad Pitt (though he managed Brad's roommate) because he thought he was "too TV".

One drunk loose lipped day, I lightly berated Herbert for the "Women on the Verge" remake and he patiently said, "You're being a purist. You forget most people have never seen it." So I said, "How would you like it if someone remade 'Footloose'?" and thank God he laughed and said, "They did! It was called 'Shag'" A now forgotten movie starring Bridget Fonda and, for the record, he would never hire ANYONE associated with that movie though Fonda came in for "True Colors" ( and I got to ride in the backseat of a convertible with her, fresh off of "Scandal" and I was in heaven. She was great). He stopped Annabeth Gish's audition for "Steel Magnolias" after 10 seconds and excused her because he figured out she had been in "Shag"-- and she had flown in from Iowa for the "SM" audition, ha. There you go. A teaser of sorts. :)

Thanks r32! Feel free to post more when you feel like it :)

I think it didn't win any Oscars because it just wasn't the best in any of the categories in which it was nominated. In this case, the double nominees for Best Actress probably worked against both, but particularly MacLaine, who, of the two, was probably seen as overdue. Also, it was such an old-fashioned movie--even in its coy references to (gasp!) male homosexuality in the world of ballet. Remember that was the year "Annie Hall" won Picture, Actress, Screenplay, and Director--if that was what the Academy wanted to heap awards on, you have to think TTP may have been 4th in the list (just above Ross's other nominee, The Goodbye Girl, an atrocious film, thrown a bone because Dreyfuss was scene as a new Dustin Hoffman and fagged up Richard III). My guess is second place was either Julia, honoring the Potemkin Village of a heroine who called herself Lillian Hellman or, in what would have been an astonishing move, Star Wars. I never got the appeal of Star Wars (and I was in college when it came out, so not the wrong demographic for it), but, looked at objectively, it was probably the most influential of the films. But, ultimately, I think they got it right with Annie Hall and with its other awards. It really was a game-changer formally, stylistically, and narratively, and a complete pleasure.

Why does Leslie Browne get shit for her Oscar nomination, but Mikhail Baryshnikov gets a free pass?

A lot of the comments I've read (elsewhere) have been about Browne's undeserved nod. Well, what about Baryshnikov? His nomination is equally undeserved, too. Perhaps even more so. He really didn't do anything in the film besides dance -- I was waiting for him to have his big Oscar moment, but it never came -- and when he did have some dialog, his delivery was very amateurish. At least Browne had several scenes in which her character was given some depth (e.g. the confrontation with her mom), and the part where she got drunk with those out-of-towners in the bar and the scene immediately after during the performance was very good. But except for one or two interactions here and there, we didn't get to know Yuri. The character was borderline cameo. I was more impressed by the kid who played the brother Ethan. Now, he did a lot with what little screen time he had. That part where he did the faceplant in class was very believable. I cringed in pain for him.

I'm guessing the majority of fans of the movie (gay and female) give Baryshnikov a free pass because of his great physique and good looks.

R25

I know Gelsey had the role initially but the role was not based on her life.

I always wished she'd have actually played the role because she was a much better dancer than Browne.

Plus, Gelsey and Misha had a angsty romantic past. I'd like to see if that could have transfered on to the screen.

Gelsey and Mikhail pairing up in the Nutcracker was truly magical.

Herb Ross ' assistant-love your posts. Got any Funny Lady stories?

R36, perhaps the role was not based on Kirkland's life, but the situation in the movie was. That's what Arlene Croce said in her scathing pan of the movie. She said that if Kirkland has played the role, there might have been more credibility in Emilia's meteoric rise. Even so, Kirkland put in years in the corps before she got her big parts and Browne was an unknown when she got the role.

I am glad someone brought up Kirkland, and her relationship with Mischa.

Did anyone ever see her dance in person? I'd love to hear your impressions. I've seen her on video, but would have loved to have seen her Firebird. She sounds like a horror, but her dancing was exquisite.

Her anorexia is partially to blame for ballet being only for waifs. I recall ballerinas of my youth having a bit more girth, and it didn't make their dancing any less ethereal.

oops, Misha. Where did that C come from?

r39, the part was actually based on Leslie Browne herself. Kirkland was given the part but then was fired because of her anorexia, an Browne got to play herself.

I don't think Browne was terrible but she should not have been nominated. Donna Pescow should have been in her place for Saturday Night Fever.

Rightly or wrongly, here is Croce's take: "Emilia's breathless ascent to stardom, during which Deedee and Emma renew their rivalry by fighting over her, is based on the career of Gelsey Kirkland, who was to have played the part. Even Kirkland had to put in her years of apprentice work, but with her in the role of Emilia, the movie might have seemed less preposterous. Leslie Browne is still an unknown who has done only one big role so far, "The Nutcracker" with Barysnikov.

Not a lot of talk about "Funny Lady", sorry, was way before my time and I never wanted to be too much of a fanboy in that job. But he did humor me a lot, maybe to make up for yelling at me, ha. (Usually when he was mad at my boss; once when boss was out of town, Ross made me come to his office and he went down the entire cast, I kept answering whom they were and their deal status correctly, I could tell he was getting pissed he wasn't tripping me but then, damn, we got to Shelby's little brother, the one that wasn't Jonathan Ward/Beans Baxter, and I blanked and he finally got to yell, "I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU DON'T KNOW THIS!!!" One of the nicer things he did, though, was later that same day when he asked me whether he should use Sam Shepherd or Frederic Forrest for Dolly Parton's husband. Was flattered he'd even care what I thought. P.S. Shepherd doesn't fly so whole schedule had to be worked out around him driving from Virginia to Lousianna. Ironic since Sam was iconic pilot character in "Ther Right Stuff."

P.S. Always thought the fact that he and Streisand got along so well (he worked with her many times, best in "Owl and Pussycat", said a lot. Two equal snobs, ha. But they were pals and she called him Herbie. On the other end, he told me the meanest woman he ever worked with was... drum roll... Raquel Welch. She threatened to sue him apparently, ha.

Oh and he and Joan Cusack DESPISED each other from minute one. He called her a fat cunt in front of the whole crew at one point (and nobody cared, ha).

R47

OMG! In front of everyone?

What movie did they make together?

"My Blue Heaven". Right after "Steel Magnolias". Joan was at her post 'Working Girl' peak too.

He called Julia Roberts fat more than once too -- since she wasn't whom he wanted for the role. She got her revenge later when she got big stardom and he called to ask her to be in another movie and she said no fucking way, ha. Herbert told her he could see the result if an actress ate even one saltine cracker, ha.

Hated Dolly Parton too. I loved her response to when he hired an accent coach for her. "Who's this Yankee going to teach me how to speak Southern?" He and MacLaine got along well which, again, says a lot. Birds of a feather...

Loving your stories r50! More please.

Thoughts on Olympia Dukakis and Daryl Hannah and Dylan McDermott?

And what was Shirley's relationship like with Anne Bancroft on set and off?

Yes, R50, I too am loving your posts!

It's OK about Funny Lady, R50, I understand you were doing a job. I just hoped he might have dropped a fun anecdote from time to time.

Only the already famous one about her being afraid to go up in biplane out of fear of being kidnapped. And she didn't want to make the movie anyway, as is also well known. The famous "PAID IN FULL" written in lipstick on an antique mirror given to Ray Stark (who was always kind to me). I think it would've been different had he ever worked with Streisand while I was there (though nerve wracking, no doubt) but I was also probably trying to be a hot shot and not ask about a huge star, ha.

Dukakis won her Oscar and had to come in the next day for "Steel Magnolias" audition -- but she only had to meet, not read. Hannah was from outer space, not mean but if you asked her a question, she would just stare back, maybe tilt her head like a dog trying to understand. Not warm. And she beat out a million better actresses for the role (from Ricki Lake to Catherine O'Hara, a looong list all of whom came in for it except Shelley Duvall who wouldn't read, wanted an offer). Field was the most nervous star I ever met, her mouth pulled tight always, and she read with/weighed in on most of the Shelby candidates. McDermont was always nice guy, rumored hugely hung and apparently it's evident in scene where he is being lifted on shoulders of groomsmen at his wedding and Janine Turner says he is one fine man. (I always liked her too, though she ballooned at one point. But was really beautiful most of the time). And I once saw Dylan Mc spill cranberry juice all over Virginia Madsen at an audition for another Herbert movie and he was so sweet and embarrassed, only endeared him to me more; she was a class act about it too, smiled and tried to make him feel better. There ya' go. Life in the casting room. ;)

We'll talk about casting butt doubles for James Spader and John Cusack some other time. Also part of the job, ha. Now that I think about it, odd that John worked with Herbert AFTER the debacle with sister Joan. Guess it made no difference. Maybe she was the pain in the ass after all.

More from the insider---please....Any gossip in a Julia Roberts and Dylan McDermott romance.

Dylan McDermott was referred to on the set of the doomed CBS series Hostages as Dylan McDouche. The crew hated him.

I thought TTP was very bad soap opera. It really needed a Sirk or even a Curtiz. It would have been fun and moving instead of god-awful.

Interesting that you have basically decent impressions of people I would have thought to have been fearsome monsters.

I saw Kirkland on stage. Tremendous. Too bad she was so screwed up or I would have seen her many more times. I caught her just before her downward spiral into drugs.

I also saw Browne a few times. Though no Kirkland(one of the rare ones touched by some sort of god) I enjoyed her very much.

"Her anorexia is partially to blame for ballet being only for waifs. I recall ballerinas of my youth having a bit more girth, and it didn't make their dancing any less ethereal."

The one person who's most responsible for the plague of anorexia in ballet is George Balanchine, the most famous choreographer of the 20th century, the founder of the NY City Ballet, and the mentor of half the company directors in the western world. He wanted his dancers as light as possible and he didn't care how miserable or unhealthy that made them, the competition to dance for him was so fierce that if you didn't want to starve for him some other girl would.

Gelsey Kirkland started out in his company and continued being deathly anorexic for years after she left, but I won't call her "his victim" because she was exactly the kind of insecure, perfectionist, obsessive rich girl who turns anorectic without ever seeing ballet. (Hell, a copy of "Vogue" is usually enough.)

What is the Joan Cusack Herbert Ross story?

This thread is making me want to go back and watch TTP, a film I have always loved and seen many times though not in recent years.

My memory of it is that it is wonderfully written and directed with many perceptive touches of the world of professional ballet and also of those yearning to be a part of it. Of course it has its campy moments like the cat fight but they do seem to grow out of very real emotions.

Misha doesn't have much to act but he is so unbearably gorgeous and sexy, even just as a presence, much less from the glimpses of some of his famous dances like those leaps in Don Quixote. This film really introduced him to the world as an international star.

I've run hot and mostly cold for Shirley MacLaine throughout her long career but she is perfection in her sincere simplicity in this and IMHO so much better than in Terms of Endearment, which has so many false and manipulative "mothering" moments. My other fabvorite role of hers is in Postcards from the Edge, another mother role, outrageous and yet thoroughly believable.

Agree with R57. It's just not very good.

Off-topic: Has anyone else seen "Ballet 422?" (I loved it, btw) or the Robert Altman ballet movie with Neve Campbell (haven't seen it.)

I loved Altman's "The Company" but be warned: literally nothing happens, ha, no big stakes, no drama, definitely no camp. One tiny plot point at the end, ha, but that's all. Still, the music and the dance are so expert and the whole thing so, well soothing that a friend and I wereI perfectly happy sitting there. Works well on TV too.

Thanks, R62. I love movies that are very open-ended and slow, and I love ballet, so am encouraged by your post to watch it.

It's a nice slice of life film and Campbell is sweet in it, think she produced too, certainly developed it for herself. Kind of her farewell though, seems to have disappeared after. And a younger James Franco is adorable too. Let us know how you liked it here.

Balanchine does get a lot of blame for anorexia but I went to the NYCB in the years before his death and a number of his stars had a certain lushness to their bodies; Farrell, Von Aroldingen, McBride, Kent, Ashley. They didn't look emaciated to me.

But the whole skinny chic thing goes back to the 50s. See the movie Funny Face.

Call me a heathen but I love the aesthetic of ballet.

The lithe female with their long necks, delicate features, small breasts, slender yet toned legs. Counter that with the strong, supremely muscled male dancer with gigantic thigh and glute muscles.

Anyone here ever read Gelsey's memoir Dancing on My Grave? I remember I was about 9 and my mother was glued to it - she was obsessed with the ballet stars of that era. And they really were STARS. I wonder what precipitated that.

Anne Bancroft is so unhealthily gaunt in this. I thought maybe it was just for the movie but then I started to notice and she was more or less like that her whole career. Were she a starlet today she would be in all of those "scary skinny" columns. But there was no such thing as thin shaming in the 70s, for better or worse. It was before working out and if you look back most of the leading ladies were like rails.

Ironically, MacLaine, who was a dancer, was one of the few movie stars of that time who I would call of normal weight. "Normal thin," anyway. And she has more or less always kept a constant weight, which is healthy.

R67

What did she say about Misha in the book?

I disagree about MacLaine and Bancroft. I thought Bancrodt looked gorgeous while MacLaine looked chubby in the film.

"Anyone here ever read Gelsey's memoir Dancing on My Grave? "

Yes, which is why I said what I said at R58.

And I believe that MacLaine gained a little weight for this film, and Bancroft lost some. Or I hope she lost weight for the film, it's not healthy for a woman of that age to weigh so little! And no, she wasn't painfully thin throughout her career, she was always slim but that's the only time I remember her being emaciated.

The final scene, with MacLaine and Brancroft facing and empty theatre with their arms around each other, the dialogue and the way it segues into Leslie Browne dancing as the music surges and the credits roll, is lovely.

From what I remember Bancroft looked even too old to be playing a still performing aging ballerina. And being that she never even had been a dancer it is all the more ludicrous.

I don't remember but does she even attempt to dance? Which if she doesn't shows how unknowing this film was. I don't care if he had been a dancer some of Ross's films are abysmal. And they were successful. But that was the 70s and 80s for you.

Laurents did his best writing work in the 50s. Though he did a terrific job directing the original production of La Cage. One of the last great lush glamorous Broadway musicals. In spite of Fiersteins book which was a pretty slapdash job. I'd like to see something like that again. Now everything looks like it's ready for the national tour with ticket prices that would have made you an investor in the 50s.

Film has not aged well, perhaps because it misrepresents (quite intentionally) the ballet world which was and is very much a world of gay men. That was way played down- and false notes don't sound better with time. The dance sequences with B and others are terrific- the central drama soap opera cliche in my opinion.

R70 I agree. I'm in the minority and really like the movie quite a bit, someone up thread said pretty much everything that I agree with - even the campy moments came out of very real emotions and situations.

Ross certainly has a mixed record (can't stand the Goodbye Girl), but one movie people tend to forget he directed was Play it Again, Sam, because we think it's all about Woody. And it is, except this is actually one movie where Ross's experience as a choreographer truly came in handy with all the physical comedy. It's a perfect collaboration.

R68 I would have to ask my mom as I didn't read it. But I don't believe it was a very flattering portrayal. My mom was obsessed with the topic and would bring it up at dinner every night (while she was reading the book), and of course us kids all just rolled our eyes - we were so not interested.

MacLaine may have gained a little weight for this, but she has never been what I would call "movie star thin." She had toned legs obviously, but always looked at a healthy weight.

I know it was mentioned way up above, but but it bears repeating that Tom Skerritt was really sexy as Shirley's husband. I saw him in some interview a few years ago, and even as an old geezer, you could still see sort of a sexy twinkle in his eyes.

IMO Ross did a boring job directing Play It Again, Sam. All the camera basically did was follow the actors around. When you compare that with the likes of the Woody Allen-directed Sleeper and Love and Death - which came out a few years later - and you can see how truly uninspired he was as a filmmaker. Better yet, compare the filmmaking skills of The Goodbye Girl with Annie Hall, both made in the same year.

Skerritt was gorgeous as Lexi's dad in Ice Castles. There's an absolutely beautiful shot of him in the final scene at the ice skating championship.

MacLaine 's character gets scolded up front for putting on weight (though she's far from fat) and she promises she won't eat much at the party after. So it's part of the plot. It's MacLaine at her most naturalistic acting, actually, one of her best.

Odd thing about Bancroft, she seems like she'd be intimidating at the very least in person, a bitch persona. Tough. But, unlike MacLaine, I don't think I ever heard or read a bad word about her. She was famous for being gracious, even to waiters. Far from cold. Which may explain the Mel Brooks marriage which all found odd pairing at first but clearly not.

R71

I don't think it was unrealistic that Bancroft's character was still dancing while approaching the end of her career .

Margot Fonteyne still danced at that age

Shirley MacLaine always maintained a good weight. She was a big gal, tall and big-boned, and she was always slim but never starved. But when a gal has incredibly long legs, she doesn't have to be emaciated to look long and lean for the camera.

She did gain a few pounds with age, but only a few.

It's been a long time since I read Gelsey Kirkland's book, and to answer your questions she didn't say anything terribly scandalous about Baryshnikov. They got involved shortly after he defected, and he was struggling to learn a new language and build a new life at the time. She didn't make him look like a saint, but mainly I felt sorry for him, being involved with a crazy woman, when he was at his most vulnerable.

What I remember most clearly is that she wrote about being mad at him because he wouldn't help her learn Russian. He had enough on his plate trying to learn English, if she cared about him she should have been helping him! She really was a completely self-absorbed twit.

R78 MacLaine is 5'7". That's hardly tall.

5'7" is and was considered tall for a woman. In 4" heels, which weren't unusual high for a woman in the 50s and 60s she would have been 5'11".

Although Anne Bancroft was often cast as imperious and tough women, she had a reputation for being very earthy and funny. Remember, her real name was Anna Maria Italiano and she was born in Brooklyn (or maybe The Bronx?).

One of her first starring roles on Broadway was Gittel Mosca, the whiny little Jewish dancer with no confidence.

[R76]

Read Frank Langella's book. His warts and all portrait of Anne Bancroft is one the best chapters. You come away liking her, but with a clear-eye about what made her a delight and a torture.

Is Skerrits character supposed to be gay? I saw it once but don't remember it too well.

No, Skerritt was just gay for awhile as a young gay person.

The film hints that Skerritt's character may have been an "opportunistic gay."

I'm sure you all know this but Tom Skerritt was Redford's first choice for the dad in "Ordinary People" -- which could've worked wonderfully since he was nice All-American WASP. Studio said no, not big enough name, I think.

It is a pretty awful film. The fight scene is camp, but boring once you've seen it once. Maclaine has never had much range, but she's actually pretty good here. Skerritt doesn't have much of a part but does ok with it. The hints about gay stuff are the only thing that makes it even close to interesting. Bancroft is well cast--she communicates competitiveness, authority and vulnerability. Hepburn could not have done that.

The Goodbye Girl is worse--Neil Simon's stuff is always sitcom-ish, but this recycled a lot of cliches you've seen in a lot of sitcoms that predate it. Dreyfuss doing Richard III is the only entertaining part of the film because it's a little novel.

Ross assistant, any stories from Pennies From Heaven or The Seven Per-Cent Solution?

It was on cable tonight and I watched it. I love this film and have since it came out in 1977. Barishnikov's dancing is magnificent, and he is absolutely gorgeous!

I was still in high school when "Seven Percent" came out and he never mentioned it (and I've still yet to see it, to be honest).

BUT my boss worked on "Pennies" so he passed down some stories -- and gave me some of the original "pennies" that fall when the man dances to the title song. They are in storage somewhere and are just little copper pieces of laminate cut into circles, ha. So they'd catch the light, I guess, as they do in the movie. Best story I have on casting: they wanted Glenn Close for Martin's wife but she hadn't done a movie yet, just "Barnum" and such on stage. Someone was pushing for Jessica Harper and my boss wanted to sabotage that deal so they could then go to Close -- so he offered Harper pennies, so to speak, a terrible deal, almost scale plus ten per cent. Sure that they would scoff and say no way. But her agent said yes and they were stuck and Glenn's debut was still three years away.

On another note, "Pennies" was the first movie of Herbert's that Pauline Kael had liked in a very long time, maybe since "Owl and the Pussycat'. And it was a major bomb -- in a year of bombs that almost brought MGM down to its knees. Everyone was proud of it, especially Herbert, but I didn't bring it up much since the box office and the lack of Oscar nods made it not such a great subject. And Herbert really didn't discuss old stuff much especially since he was so prolific. Hope that'll hold you; remember I was more "Secret of my Success" to early 90s stuff for more personal stuff. aka the Tri-Star years. (I miss Tri-Star and their Pegasus logo).

Every word in Frank Langella's book is a lie, including "and" and "the."

r91, Harper gives an incredible performance in that film--the best of her career.

Mr Assistant

Any Lee Radziwell stories?

R 89 here. Thanks, Mr. Assistant! Glad to see that "Pennies From Heaven" is finally getting its due. I'd have it sweep the 1981 Oscars, Picture, Steve Martin for Actor, Bernadette Peters for Actress, Christopher Walken for Supporting Actor, Jessica Harper for Supporting Actress, Production Design, Costumes, Cinematography, Director. Who has ever watched "Chariots of Fire' more than once? Who does more than parody Henry Fonda and Katherine Hepburn in their roles from "On Golden Pond"?

And so many of those caught up in the Cumberbatch-Downey-Miller Sherlock Holmes fandom of late have never even heard of "The Seven Per-Cent Solution" which puts the Downey movies totally in the shade.

ha, funny you should say that, I bought a rather pretty Blu Ray book (nice package) of "Chariots of Fire" and finally decided to watch it after all these years; I only knew and loved the music like most people. Two things I noticed after one hour: (1) I could not understand half of what was being said and need to watch again with subtitles and (2) I could not tell those guys apart, had the hardest time keeping up with who was whom. At least five of them look like Ian Charleson.

And, yes, "7%" is one of Herbert's least known films. Doesn't it concentrate on Sherlock's opium use a lot? I do remember it was up for one Academy Award anyway (script?)

Not many Lee Radziwell stories, R94, except that she was very kind to me. Pretty in that no fat on her bones way. They were both older by that time so no fighting in the halls of Tri-Star, would have been gauche, ha. Herbert was the cranky one and, even then, in a very tony way.

I love Jessica Harper, especially in "Stardust Memories" (one I make actors study, especially her scene on the pay phone) but I found her beyond morose in "Pennies". But that was the tone set for all, to be honest, so the fantasy musical numbers would be ironic. The blind girl doomed the film, I think, waaaay too dark for 1980 audiences who expected Steve Martin to make them smile.

R96 CHARIOTS OF FIRE is one of the worst Best Picture winners.

And I'm not getting Ian Holm's Oscar nomination either.

R96, the title of "The Seven Per-Cent Solution" refers to how Holmes takes cocaine as described in the original stories. 7% cocaine to 93% purified water injected intravenously. The story has Holmes dangerously addicted and obsessively paranoid about Professor Moriarty (who is here not the criminal mastermind of the original stories). Dr. Watson discovers that only one doctor in Europe is well versed enough in addiction to help but lives in Vienna. Watson and Mycroft Holmes contrive to get Sherlock to Vienna to be cured and while there a case presents itself involving another of the doctor's addicted patients, compulsive gambling, a fetish for red hair, kidnapping and international intrigue. Holmes, Watson and the Viennese doctor solve the case, save the day and the mystery of Holmes' addiction, hatred of Moriarty, choice of profession and misogyny is solved by the Viennese doctor.

The novel by Nicholas Meyer was a big bestseller and Meyer went on to direct "Time after Time"," Star Trek II" and "Star Trek VI" . He was nominated for an Oscar for the adapted screenplay of "The Seven Per-Cent Solution" . I think he had hopes to direct it too but probably wasn't ready for such an elaborate and expensive film. It has top drawer cast, production values, score. and is a lot of fun, especially if you can ever see it with an audience. Surprised that it hasn't been revived as part of the recent Holmes craze.

I don't think Close would have captured the pathetic aspect of the wife in Pennies From Heaven, specifically the bit where she puts lipstick on her nipples. She could have put across the frigid aspect, though.

No one can play frigid like Close, although she was the world's best borderline personality in "Fatal Attraction".

Remember this would've been very early non-powerhouse Close who looked matronly and pure housewife, the most unlikely of film stars, the last one would cast as sexy femme fatale (why she deserved the "Fatal Attraction" Oscar actually). So we would've probably embraced her in the role -- though it would not have been nearly as prestigious a debut as "Garp" ended up being. So worked out well for all.

Just thought it was a funny story about how casting directors (in the big leagues, certainly) can manipulate how the decisions are made -- all without really breaking any rules. My boss managed certain actors as well as doing casting and he would bring them in for roles (without taking commission on those gigs so he looked less corrupt) and they would win the role fair and square against the competition of three or four actors. EXCEPT he'd leave out the fact that the 3 or 4 other actors were good but not great so of course his actor would shine. Especially once he weighed in on his opinion of who was best, ha. I'm sure he wasn't the only one who did this, needless to say.

Went to school with Daniel Levans was a queen at 14

Jessica Harper's teeny tiny titties scared me.

Yeah, they were a little jarring especially with the lipstick on the nipples. It was a different time then though. Fake tits bolted onto tiny frames like Harper's were not in vogue yet.

[quote]she was obsessed with the ballet stars of that era. And they really were STARS. I wonder what precipitated that.

Was it because Nureyev and Baryshnikov pulled everyone else along in their wake? The rise of disco and associated club life and a hyperfocus on dance in general?

Canadian channel TVO used to air a program called Saturday Night at the Movies with a feature film followed by interviews. One Saturday it was "Pennies from Heaven" followed by interviews with cast members. Jessica Harper was one of the stars interviewed. When the subject of the "lipstick" scene came up, Harper became very nervous and chose not to answer the question about it. It's obviously a difficult scene for her to talk about - she was certainly very brave to do it. She now writes children's books and records CDs for children as well.

Jessica Harper was in Love and Death (when she was very young) and Stardust Memories. I'm sure she and the Woodman must have had an affair.

She also has some rare disease but I'm not sure don't remember what it's called.

I've read that blog. She seems pretty funny, reasonably intelligent (for an actress anyway), and kind of earthy. I think she has kids who go to Brown. She also married really well - I think he's a studio head, or head of something pretty major where you would make a shitload of money.

Kind of like Karen Allen another actress who people were so sure her career would take off in the early 80s and then it didn't.

Karen Allen and Jessica Harper could have played sisters.

Harper always had an amazing singing voice (see the otherwise awful "Shock Treatment") but she was, by her own admission, an odd duck and hard to cast. But I loved her, thought she had such a hook with that low voice and tiny frame.

I always confused Jessica Harper with Brooke Adams and Margot Kidder.

That's easy to fix:

Jessica had the forehead.

Brooke had the toothy smile.

Margot was hiding behind the wood pile in Glendale.

Loved Jessica Harper in STARDUST MEMORIES and PENNIES FROM HEAVEN. And her CRABBY COOK videos are a delight!

R113

Damn you! I almost aspirated my cough drop over your Margot post.

I love Karen Allen, Jessica Harper and Brooke Adams - they each had a unique presence and were very charismatic. Interesting that each of them had a run of success stemming from mid-to-late seventies into early '80s but by the late '80s none of them were getting good roles anymore.

Sorry, R113, I have always wondered what it was like to live in that Glendale house and look out the window that morning.

"Honey? I'm not sure but is that Margot Kidder hiding behind our wood pile?" "Looks like Margot Kidder to me, dear."

What is Brooke Adams' famous films?

"Days of Heaven" shows her off best. It was a pretty short ride actually.

Wasn't Karen Allen blackballed by Spielberg?

No, that was me, R120. I was cast as Marion Ravenwood, but was fired and badmouthed around town when I wouldn't let Steve take liberties. Barbra Streisand and Steven Spielberg are petty, jealous inviduals who will stop at nothing to destroy talent. Quite sad, really.

So anyway, what were we talking about?

Margot behind the wood pile. And, of course, Herbert Ross.

This is Brooke Adams most famous role:

OP, any stories from The Seven Percent Solution? The notorious diva Nicol Williamson, Laurence Olivier, Vanessa Redgrave, Robert Duvall and Alan Arkin all in the same film. Must have been a doozy.

Wow, who knew "7 %", one of his biggest flops, had so many fans. It's discussed a bit upthread but he never mentioned it (and I have yet to see it).

Is this thread about The Turning Point anymore?

Make it so, #127.

R5, well, Lesley Browne did guest star on "Happy Days."

She got to dance with the Fonz.