Psychology Today: Straight Dudes who have Sex with Dudes explain themselves to researchers

[quote] Research with this population is difficult due to the challenges of reaching these men – the entirety of whom are in self-denial.

Fixed it for you.

This covers "gay for pay" escorts and porn stars. They have sex with more men than most gay men yet consider themselves completely straight.

Psychology Today: Bisexual and closeted gay Dudes who have Sex with Dudes fail to identify themselves as bi or gay to researchers in yet another pitiful illustration of closet case mentality

OP - Is Psychology Today that lame, or are you lame to post it with with no comment.

They can call themselves what they want, it's their right.

If they are boning women and men they are practicing bisexuals. They don't like the labels bi and gay. Why weren't those simple questions asked? "Sir, you have occasional sex with men for physical release." (holding in my tongue and incredulity) "Most people would categorise that as bisexual. Is that OK for you if people categorise your behaviour as bisexual? And if not, why not?"

They still have not cracked the main population, who are certainly not whores or druggies.

Hell, they haven't even cracked those weird fundie male models.

NYC study: In New York City, among sexually active men who also reported a sexual identity, 4% reported a gay identity but 12% reported same-sex sexual behavior in the past year. Despite the differences in phrasing of the question regarding sexual partners, the 2003 estimate of same-sex behavior in men was similar to that in the 2002 CHS.

Approximately 70% of straight-identified men who have sex with men reported being married, which was substantially more than any other identity–behavior group: 54% of straight-identified men who have sex with women and only 0.2% of gay-identified men who have sex with men reported being married. Gay-identified men who have sex with men were more likely than the men in the other groups to report a higher educational level, a higher annual income, and residence in Manhattan.

There were several unexpected findings in our study. First, we found that 70% of straight-identified men who have sex with men reported that they were married, substantially more than the 54% of men who have sex with women who reported being married.

Second, our analysis shows that straight-identified and gay-identified men who have sex with men are engaging in different patterns of sexual behavior: Gay-identified men who have sex with men report a higher average number of sexual partners, and the majority of straight-identified men who have sex with men (96%) report 1 sexual partner (a man) in the previous year.

Gay-identified men who have sex with men in New York City were found to exhibit sexual behaviors that put them at higher risk than other men for HIV infection and STD acquisition, and public health prevention messages should continue to address the need for behavior modification to reduce risk in men who have sex with men. However, because men who have sex with men do not necessarily identify as gay, prevention messages should focus on the activities that pose risk (for example, unprotected receptive anal sex) and should not be framed to appeal solely to gay-identified men. Although most straight-identified men who have sex with men in New York City reported having sexual encounters with only 1 partner, it is likely that this does not eliminate risk, and it is troubling that a portion of this group seems to overlook key strategies for HIV and STD prevention.

Of course they can call themselves whatever they want- and all manner of blather can discuss. All others will call then closet homosexuals and bisexuals. Men on the "down low" are as homophobic as they come!

R2, they can consider themselves to be wookies for all anyone cares, but as soon as they willingly open up for a cock, they are revealing themselves to be either bi, or gay.

^ or willingly fuck another dude

Tell us more about the "fundie male models" R5 because this thread is a snorefest

I love the "sex as an accident" category. How does one have sex by accident? Oops, there's a dick in my ass?

I like the 'my girlfriend argued with me so I accidentally fucked a guy, you know, because I was upset and needed a shoulder to cry on. It just...got out of hand.'

Accidental gay sex according to them is when a bro has a fight with his lady and gets drunk with his bros and homies, to blow off steam, and then blow each other.

"Research with this population is difficult due to the challenges of reaching these men – the majority of whom keep this activity covert.."

Yeah, duh. I wonder how many also happen to be God fearing Freemasons? And why isn't anyone allowed to find that data out? And why do Freemasons pressure their single male membership to marry? Hey, don't forget The Daughters of The Eastern Star, huj? You can always meet a beard..uh...nice, educated woman through them, wink wink nudge nudge.

The research also basically called these closet cases stupider and less educated than us gays. I expect that trend will continue.

Laughing so hard at R12.

It's curious that this study focused primarily on black and Latino men, even though this behavior is very common among some demographics of white men, particularly in conservative areas of the US and some parts of Europe. I'd bet a ton of Russian men fall into this category, for example.

Having said that, the study should have looked into the way that prison culture ties into everything. Black and Latino men are disproportionately more likely to have been incarcerated than their white and Asian counterparts, and straight-identified men having sex with other men in prison is commonplace. And there are very good safety reasons for wanting to hide a gay or bisexual sexual identity in low-income, high-crime communities. It makes you a target for violence and brutality, for starters.

Its all about location R16. The cohort may have had more black and latino men by accident, not as a "focus". Because the white guys where the study was conducted have more money, more education, and are not in the closet.

I know of poker nights where straight thrashed guys are getting sucked off by a tranny slut underneath the table . Poker night party idea common in rural Florida by white straight rednecks.

"I like the 'my girlfriend argued with me so I accidentally fucked a guy, you know, because I was upset and needed a shoulder to cry on. It just...got out of hand.' "

Dude, this is half of the Craigslist m4m ads.

I know of many dudes like this. Some identify as bisexual, but most identify as straight but acknowledge they infrequently "get down with" or "mess with" dudes. Their same-sex interest is treated as a minor aside, a minor act, or inconsequential behavior that does not undermine their heterosexuality or mainstream identity.

It's like that guy from (The Who? Pink Floyd?) who got busted for "researching" kiddie porn on line.

Pete Townsend.

I have something to say about this.

Why is it so difficult for some people to accept that if you're into guys and girls you're bisexual. You might be into guys sexually and girls only romantically or romantically and sexually. You're still bisexual. I'm sick of the internalized homophobia and self hatred in these men. We're in 2015 ffs. Same sex marriage is legal in all of USA. I understand that coming out can still be difficult, it's not an easy journey for everyone. But pretending to be straight while sleeping with the same sex is taking that to a whole new level. They could come a long way with some self acceptance.

In the end these guys are just assholes who want their cake and eat it too. They want to have sex with men, yet don't want to identify with it in order to undermine their heterosexual privilege.

R24 - Because most people seem to think that bisexuals are just in denial about their homosexuality. Read through some of the threads on here sometime; if a guy is rumored to have been with another guy, no matter how many women he's dated/married or been linked to, he MUST be bearding and closeted. If you prefer women, there really is no point in coming out because they won't want you once you do.

R16 has it right. It all stems from this prison mindset that goes back to the dawn of man. It's connected to masculinity and how men need to see themselves as 'real men'. Getting fucked by another guy makes you gay - and weak, like a woman. If you're the one doing the fucking, it's just 'sport', 'letting off steam', or whatever the hell they decide to call it to justify the behavior, but simply using another guy's hole, whether it's oral or anal, for release means they can cling to their heterosexual identity with their masculinity intact. Because they weren't the ones bending over and taking dick, quelle horror. It's less about sexual identity and orientation than it is about an outdated view of masculine ideals and concepts. Hell, there are gay guys on here who insist they don't 'act gay', as if that's something to be shunned. Maybe it's time for a new word for this thought process, since bisexual doesn't really cover the psychology. I don't think MSM is it.

r25, but if they eat the same-sex cake infrequently, why go through the bother of identifying with it?

I don't think there's one easy answer to explain all of these cases. Some are closeted gays and fully aware. Some are deeply repressed and can't even acknowledge their sexuality. Some are genuinely bi, to varying degrees. Some are primarily straight but will settle for a guy under the right circumstances.

I'm sure some of these guys are self loathing closet cases. And some of them are in denial about their bisexuality. But I'm also pretty sure that some of them are just straight whores who have no problem using men for sex. They don't identify as bisexual because they are not particularly attracted to men. Sexual attraction plays no more of a role in their selection of male sex partners than it does in deciding which game of pick up basketball to join. Men are easy and disposable to them. Especially with the married guys. It doesn't feel the same as cheating because they know there is no way in hell they are ever going to fall in love with a guy. I know guys like this. Thinking they are closet cases is actually giving them more sympathy than they deserve. They aren't conflicted at all.

[quote] Finally, while there is conflicting data, it appears that non-gay identified MSM engage in high levels of drug and alcohol use.

Or in other words, they're in DEEP DENIAL about their sexuality, and are using mind-altering substances to deal with their inner conflict.

This is nothing new.

Substance abusers are always running away from something, whether it's abuse, trauma, pain, or... conflicted sexuality.

Note the many excuses they make for WHY they are having sex with a guy.

The whole "fighting with my girlfriend" or "I needed the money" is just a bullshit copout.

Straight men don't want to have sex with other men. PERIOD. End of story.

Gay men, however, DO want to have sex with other men. Some are open about it. Some are not. And some are DEEPLY conflicted about it. So much so, that they use drugs or alcohol to dull their senses.

But make no mistake about it - they're still gay.

Either you suck dick,

Or you DON'T suck dick.

THREAD

CLOSED.

I think many such men are paraphiliacs and hypersexual - research indicates that male paraphiliacs are more like to have homosexual sex even if the vast majority of them are straight. They're the ones who truly embody the stereotype that men will fuck anything with a hole. So they consent to take part in sex relations even if these are not to their true preference - because, for them, any hole is better than no hole.

I can explain these guys very simply. They're deep closet cases who are phobic about being known as gay so they live a big lie. A lie to themselves and everyone else.

[quote] How does one have sex by accident? Oops, there's a dick in my ass?

It's like those old Reeses Peanut Butter Cups commercials:

"Hey, you got your dick in my ass!"

"Hey, you got your ass on my dick!"

Bingo, R35!

That argument is such bullshit. These guys know exactly what they're doing. They just don't want to admit it.

r32, a lot of these dudes don't suck ever. They only get sucked. So, what's your point?

What do you think the percentage of men in the U.S. who have ever had any type of sexual contact with another man ( even if they just got a blow job from another man) is?

14 percent, r38

Nice racism, r17. Trash.

Why do you think swinging and 3-ways, especially experienced when partying on vacations in a different city, have become more socially acceptable?

R38, How about the "grey area" of semi-sexual or erotic same sex activity? What do you think is the percentage of men in the U.S. who have ever had any type of pseudo sexual contact or homoerotic sexual contact with another man but much less than a blow job? Far more socially acceptable and even encouraged "all male bonding rituals," supposedly to prove you're a "real man," often cross the line when you're talking about alternately sharing a woman in front of your male bestie, taking part in a gang bang or sexual contest when the female soon becomes secondary. Add in all of the S&M like fraternity rituals when liquor is used as an excuse for outrageous behavior. I'll bet it's much higher than 14%.

No heterosexual male have sex with men. Those men are probably in denial, they might want to check the bisexual label.

R28 so using your example, if i eat choclate cake all the time, but occassionally eat vanilla cake, I don't have to admit to liking vanilla cake at all & saying I don't like vanilla cake, would be a true statement.

The interesting part of OP's link is the guys saying that they don't kiss, hug or talk to the other man - they just up and leave after they get off. This makes me think that they aren't "gay" but "any port in a storm". They don't fall in love with men. They simply fuck other men because it's convenient.

Some of you have admitted to fucking women as an "experiment" but don't identify as bisexual. The same goes for some of these guys. You don't fall in love with women or want a relationship with them.

It's more complicated than just fucking.

None of you guys have ever had sexual contact with guys you know are +90% straight?

I'm quite atypical- I find people more attractive when they are intelligent. The few women I've been with had to have that killer combo- smart, funny and hot (I would have sex with Amy Schumer in a second) but it was still good to great sex. They all knew I was gay beforehand. Guys, though, only have to be 2 of 3. When you give your full attention to straight guys it's pretty easy to turn them on.

I've had some fun, ranging from heavy petting to full on sex, with a few "straight" guys that I have (now) known for 20 years. Most were just experimenting, some closeted and two that did it just for the hell of it.

One of them, now married with kids, is estranged from me because his wife found out that although we only had sex once, it was a rather intense relationship that she (I'll admit, rightfully) sees as a threat to their marriage.

I think most of these dudes are just plain in denial of their bisexuality (whatever degree it might be) due to stigma, stereotypes, familial pressure, societal pressure, religious pressure and the list goes on. The average joe doesn't understand the fluidity/spectrum of sexuality so just plain asking them what they identify as isn't going to produce legit results. The answers will be biased based on the person's limited understanding of how sexuality works

R45 there are plenty of gays on the fuck merry-go-rounds who don't "kiss, hug, or talk."

"Some are primarily straight but will settle for a guy under the right circumstances."

The scientific term for that is BISEXUAL. Calling someone bisexual doesn't mean you go fifty-fifty, some bisexuals lean one way or the other but they're still bi.

So much resistance to wide acceptance of the word, and the identity.

Which would be more interesting research than this.

Did the researchers interview any of the straight guys on the gay porn websites?

You just know these guys pick fights with their women, so they can go out & get cock, not the other way around !!

[quote]The scientific term for that is BISEXUAL

No, the scientific term for that is CLOSETED HOMO. Bi-sexuality is a farce and a fraud in 99.9% of all claimed cases.

No, R53. Sexuality is a lot more complicated than that. It's possible to be genuinely attracted to both genders.

R54 Exactly. Ridding ourselves of labels would go a long way toward enriching our lives.

Paricipating in a circle jerk, no human contact, is this gay sex?

circle jerk = gay or bi, depends on the guy

A guy can be 100% hetero identified but if he had touchie feely with his boy buddies and a few circle jerks, he definitely had bi practices in his life.

R58

Not always.

a lot of small, ignorant minds here

"a lot of small, ignorant minds here."

Not really, just calling a spade a spade, or more properly, calling closet cases and "bisexuals" out on their bullshit.

Even after the heels of gay marriage, we still have assholes who view "gay" with such contempt and shame and who rationalize their shame. I'm jealous of future gay people who probably won't have to read this insulting and offensive shit.

Yes, and it's called bisexual, R54.

BISEXUAL R55. BISEXUAL, asshole. How do you like that label? That's my label for you.

The only label that fits me is "peaches".

Then how do these explanations cover women on the dl(they do exist btw)? Is the straight woman who's always with men openly, has sex with them, relationships, but has secretive affairs with women just for the sex and never discloses to the men she's with..is she a dyke or a bi or conflicted?

I have yet read about one R65.

yet to read?

"Is the straight woman who's always with men openly, has sex with them, relationships, but has secretive affairs with women just for the sex and never discloses to the men she's with."

There are women who mostly date men but also have sex with females....but most of them don't feel the need to hide it because men think bisexuality in females is hot. I guess a few ones who are religious or from fundie families might

It's weird, I am gay but I feel exactly like this about the occasional woman I have been attracted to. I feel ashamed at the attraction and only have engaged while intoxicated in some way.

Should I turn in my card?

"It's weird, I am gay but I feel exactly like this about the occasional woman I have been attracted to."

Yeah, because society is so harsh towards men who are attracted to women.

why are you ashamed to be bi, R69?

I tend to think it's true that our identities should be categorized as both romantic and sexual. These guys may be heteroromantic but bisexual. So would the women r68 is talking about.

too complicated but whatever gets them through the day.

I find it interesting that r46 puts quotation marks around "straight", when the very same thing could be said of his "gay" self.

You could probably put quotation marks around the entire post R74, because it's probably made up.

its dicombobulated

discombobulated

R46 sounds less like a gay man and more like every twenty-something straight girl in Brooklyn (I'm really into intelligence, not looks, and I would so hook up with Amy Schumer!).

I can't explain it r71 when I run into a woman that I feel heat for it's still an odd experience for me because I don't think of myself as bi. It always takes me by surprise. I don't talk about it with anyone. I don't want to get shit for it.

As expected, this thread perfectly illustrates the parochialism so prevalent on DL, especially when it comes to complex topics like bisexuality. Despite an undeserved reputation for sophistication, gays are often just as provincial as the average frau.

A man can have had 30 or 40 female partners in his past but sex with 1 or 2 men forever makes him a pathetic gay guy in denial. Bisexuality doesn't exist. All must be black or white, essily categorized, easily understood.

So many DLers have the mentality of a Republican housewife from Kansas, with all the prejudices.

Amy Schumer has a nice rack and would not be a pity fuck by any means.

"I don't want to get shit for it."

Why would you? Society gives shit to men who sleep with men, men who sleep with women are the norm

"So many DLers have the mentality of a Republican housewife from Kansas, with all the prejudices."

No offense, but I think your mentality is the silly one. Yes, bisexuality exists....but there are also gay men who tell themselves they are "bi" because they can't handle the truth about themselves. You think people never lie? I know they do, because I lied to people (and myself) about my sexuality for years. You accuse others of sounding like "fraus" but making generalizations about "gays" and calling them names is usually what stupid redneck bigots do.

Shit for it from my circle 82 I'm not dealing with all of society here. I understand the dynamics dick.

10 years ago when I was 40 I used to hook up with a 25 straight guy from my gym one night a week after the gym usually on Mondays...he was very shy but had an athletic bod perfect butt with a nice size cut cock. He didn't really say much other than kiss me cautiously on the lips and neck and he would always want me to massage him with just his underwear on. I would massage him having him first on his stomach for about 10-15 min. then he would say you can take my underwear off and I did then and would start licking his butt and play with his hole and licking turned into eating it while he started to moan...10 minutes or so later it was time for him to roll over on his back. At this point his cock was always erect and I would touch it off and on as I was massaging his chest and legs....this would be time that I would start sucking him to climax and swallowing his hefty load down my throat afterwards he always felt a bit uncomfortable but would always say thanks dude that was amazing. i wished that girls could suck like that! This went on for at least a year then I never saw him again at the gym. I never got his # as I would see him at the gym at least 3-4x a week and he would give me the signal-nod that he wanted me that night for our weekly ritual..

sad. but I might have done the same at one point.

A pathetic gay guy R80?

Not only do you have grammatical issues R84, but you also have mental issues.

This all reinforces what i have been saying for years & years. In the right situation, where 2 guys find themselves completely alone & no other living soul will know, shit goes down, straight, bi gay or indifferent !!

R82 please reread my post carefully before attempting to critique it again. I was primarily referring to DL, the only site I read where people regularly state with assurance that male bisexuals don't exist.

Also, qualifiers such as "often" and "many" are used to make sure that the intelligent reader doesn't take the statement as a generization.

r68., nails it !

God I love labels SO much. Makes things so simple and easy.

I'm so sick of the notion that being submissive in the bedroom makes you less of a man. It's something that is even perpetuated by gay men. The teasing or knowing look when you find out someone is a bottom. Self loathing at its worst. Is a straight guy who is submissive to a woman in bed less of a man once the sex is over?

I know women on the dl and asked that question to see who the sexist on the board today was. It worked, unsurprisingly.

R68 Dude, uh, hate to break the news to you but women DO feel the need to hide their dl bootie calls from their men because the men WOULD get angry and it could possibly lead to divorce. You're too bought into stereotypes man,,and it shows. At this point you probably hope it to be trew,trew,trew because you CAN'T STANDZ the notion that anyone would act outside your stereotypical thinking about men and women probably rooted somewhere circa 1972.

That you believe het men are INCAPABLE of feeling betrayed by a woman who cheats with another WOMAN, shows you've got some seriously unresolved mommy issues. Women like to FUCK and for its own sake; some of them FUCK women in the fly without their husbands or boyfriends knowing about it; most of them hide it successfully (though I do know one woman who was caught and your daddy FUCKED your Mommy and - gasp! - she probably loved every inch and second of it. Hopefully you started Life with a BIG BANG, and I hope you can manage to live it that way. If you could learn some NEW things, you just might.

Isn't the issue really that we all have known gay guys who professed to be straight, then bi, and finally coming out as gay (Hello Tom!)? And for those of us who have been out for the majority of our lives, it seems somewhat difficult to see and understand why someone would go through the machinations of this "transition" (quotation marks to differentiate this process from that of, say, Caitlin) when it's so obvious to us. That said, there most definitely are bisexual men who fall somewhere along the sexual spectrum, and aren't just transitioning.

I've been accused of bias toward bisexual men, not coincidentally by a guy who was so clearly gay but wanted to be straight so badly he wouldn't/couldn't admit his homosexuality to himself, let alone anyone else. I've also been with guys who really are bisexual, comfortable with their sexuality, and had no issues with them (and some awesome, mind-blowing sex). My point is that it tends to be the, shall we say, confused men who have given bisexuals a reputation.

If a straight dude finds out his GF or wife is bi, he usually will pester her incessantly for a threesome. They never feel "threatened" by it. They want to participate even when it's not about them.

Straight me are so stupid and selfish.

Straight men aren't threatened by female bisexuality because women cannot knock up other women. Male possessiveness and jealousy stems from the fact that it's possible for them to be fooled into raising and providing for another man's offspring, which could mean the end of the cuckold's lineage. Women can't "accidentally" mother some other woman's child (except in modern day rare cases of hospital screw-ups), so male cheating doesn't inflict the same kind of psychic devastation for the scorned woman.

R93 I've known a lot of women who hide their bisexuality from men, too. For starters, as R68 pointed out, many men who date women fetishize bisexuality in women and think it a) automatically makes the woman nothing but a sexual commodity and b) means the woman is going to be totally okay with him fucking other women or inviting random women to have a threesome when a lot of bisexuals aren't into threesomes and c) means the woman isn't going to want to be monogamous when plenty of bisexuals are into monogamy. So if the guy wants a monogamous "serious" relationship with a woman, he may not see a bisexual woman as a viable candidate due to these often erroneous views.

Likewise, lesbians often don't want to date bisexual women because of the widespread perception that bisexual women don't want to settle down with a woman and only want serious relationships with men (sound familiar?). This is sometimes but not always true. In my experience, lesbians are less leery about dating bi women than men are, but it still certainly exists to a notable degree.

So, yes, MANY women who have sex with both men and women hide it from their partners, especially their male partners. Anyone who doesn't think so hasn't been on a modern college campus, where plenty of coeds will happily sleep with 239472342 women and become nice married straight-identifying housewives as soon as they graduate. One of my first girlfriends was this way. She broke up with the girl she dated after me specifically because she met a man who was willing to marry her and she didn't think she could have the family and kids she wanted with a woman. Sad. To this day, she hasn't told him she's slept with a ton of women before him. He's religious, you see. And of course she is now, too.

Bisexual erasure has so many social ramifications for gay, straight and bi people. I think (hope) it'll be the next big social conversation we have about sexuality as a society.

Straight men, think the lesbian thing is great, because in his bis ego filled head, only he has the tool (his cock) to give them, what they really need !!

R80 and his ilk are the biggest liars. I don't care if "Lance" was the only man you slept with along with 50 girls and women, everyone can see you don't give a fuck about female gender. You are GAY GAY GAY GAY, not "complicated."

Lots of homophobic straight men love lesbians because they think femme lesbians are there to put on a show for them and butch lesbians want to BE men and therefore that assigns value to maleness and masculinity. Whereas gay men are perceived by these guys as rejecting the value of masculinity, or if they like to be fucked up the ass, they're actually assigning value to femininity, which is 100% outrageous and threatening to homophobic straight men. The hatred of the (perceived) feminine is closely tied to homophobia. Which has a lot to do with why gay or bisexual men in communities that value the hypermasculine reject anything but a straight identity regardless of their actual sexual orientation.

Gay men aren't innocent in this either, as we delude ourself into thinking every guy who's sexual proclivities aren't black and white and boring must be gay and hiding it.

It's as narrow a thought as straight people who think every gay man wants to dress up in women's clothed and have sex in bathrooms.

I certainly do not wear women's clothes

R101

When you don't fit into their "box" straight men are usually shocked, especially if you don't fit the stereotype.

Some of them are turned on by a successful non-stereotypical gay guy who shares similar interests in culture, music, politics, business and philosophy. It busts their preconceived notions.

I will say it again, MOST men who have sex with men do not want to go near GAY as an identity.

Even the fact that GLBT is used as an umbrella keeps them away from bisexual.

It is cultural

R104

Most? No, but a very large minority of MSM (awful acronym) are not comfortable with the "lifestyle" implications, the reactions of friends and family, and the "bi erasure" of the gay community.

I have no doubt that some of the "straight" guys I've fooled around with would be more comfortable if male bisexual behavior was not stigmatized. "Fooling around" with another guy will be as mainstream as female bisexuals in a few years.

"You fix one sink, you're not a plumber.

You change one tire, you're not a mechanic.

But you suck just ONE cock...!"

The "gay" label is tainted by its associated with non-masculinity or effeminancy.

Shelf Help: 'Not Gay: Sex Between Straight White Men'

Is it possible that, for white men, sex with other men can function as the ultimate re-affirmation of straightness and privilege?

This fascinating book explores the worlds of white men who have sex with other white men—in military hazing rituals, in public restrooms, after meeting on Craigslist—and yet identify as straight. It is tempting to assume that, no matter what they say, most such men are, in fact, repressed or closeted: that they are “really” gay but are unwilling or unable to say so. Instead, Ward argues that for white men, sex with other men can function as the ultimate re-affirmation of straightness and privilege. It verifies their ability, denied to so many others, to do what they please, call it what they want, and still be “normal.” At first, the thesis sounds almost willfully counterintuitive, but it builds to a surprising plausibility, or at least an interesting confusion. This is oddly fitting: After all, what realm of human behavior wriggles free of our intuitions more reliably than sex?

A straight guy would let me suck his cock in my building when he was horny...no words exchanged by him other then hey, cool, feels good, wow! I would enter his apartment, door open and he would be on his back pretty hard already then I would proceed to suck him till he came in my mouth then leave. Then he move :(

Basically the article answer is:

Q: What's the difference between a heterosexual man & a homosexual man?

A: A six pack of beer.

Rubbish

r108, why are you so desperate, dude?

r108, have some morals and self-respect, mna.

mna mna man!

I'm 100% homo and wouldn't have sex with a woman even if my life depended on it, so to me, this guys are bisexual or closeted.

The article concludes that the findings give a clearer understanding of this phenomenon. Since they didn't come to any conclusion no clear understanding is inferred.

Now, when reading about these men having sex with other men but not expressing any kind of affection, that to me is the very expression of repression of same-sex attraction. You know, they cannot fight their sexual needs to have sex with other men so they succumb to it, but avoid the kissing or any kind of affection so as to keep the delusion of heterosexuality intact in their minds. Notice how their care so much about avoding actions tha might be labeled "gay" except for the sex.

Guys should avoid having sex this this kind I think.

How can you be doing advanced theoretical thinking like that and still be stuck with the county toilets?

[quote]I'm 100% homo and wouldn't have sex with a woman even if my life depended on it, so to me, this guys are bisexual or closeted.

And of course your limited experience can be extrapolated to the general population. I've had sex with women, am I bisexual? Don't think so.

[quote]Now, when reading about these men having sex with other men but not expressing any kind of affection, that to me is the very expression of repression of same-sex attraction.

One huge problem with that theory. Check out the leather bars in a big city. You'll find hundreds if not thousands of gay men who have sex with no affection whatsoever.

In the same way, there are straight-identified men who want to have a purely sexual experience with another man. They're not interested in romance with another man; no tenderness or affection required. Just like some gay men, they just want to fuck.

R116 Openly gay guys can also have sex without expressing affection, but that doesn't negate their same-sex attraction. The case with these self-identifed heterosexual men is that their avoidance of expressions of affection towards the man their are doing is so not to destabilize their self-proclaimed heterosexual identity.

They make concessions in order to maintain a self-procaimed heterosexual identity in their minds. They cannot suppress their need to have sex with other men, even the article states that some of these men have sex with men without anything forcing them to do it, so they set their own rules as to what will define them as gay and that is expression affection towards the man they are having sex with because they convince themselves that only love and affection define sexual orientation.

sexual attraction is also aprt of sexuality. If attraction is irrelevant then sexuality si a joke. I can define myself whatever please, but that doesn't change the fact that my behaviour contradicts my self-proclamation.

Do we observe the same phenomenon among gay guys? How many openly gay guys are out there having sex with women? If this phenomenon exist among "heterosexual" men then there is no reason not to expect the same behaviour among openly gay guys...

If you gave me $3000 to have sex with a woman, I would take 100 mg of viagra (or more) and affix a picture of young alec baldwin shirtless, firmly in my head... and I could probably do it.

But, seriously - I would not be "bisexual" . I could probably even fake enjoying it...and I might even enjoy it for real. I hear the vajeen is soft and welcoming. But I wouldn't want to do it repeatedly.

R117 What you're continuing to miss, or intentionally overlooking, is that many people--straight, gay, and bi--are quite capable of separating their romantic desires from their sexual urges.

I never had any problem having sex with girls though I figured out eventually I'd never fall in love with one. So, am I gay (as I say) or bisexual?

[quote]If this phenomenon exist among "heterosexual" men then there is no reason not to expect the same behaviour among openly gay guys...

Again, we're down to self-identification, third-party labeling, and romantic vs sexual attraction.

The men being studied identify as straight. Their primary sexual interest and sole romantic interest is with women. I'm the exact opposite. Now, if you want to label me bisexual that's fine, but I'll always answer "gay" when asked about my sexual orientation.

I love my 25yr old straight dude that I suck often ...just saying, no complications just a hot cock>cumming in my mouth!

r120, you should be ashamed. Watch yourself, bro!

Why should someone be ashamed of a consensual sexual relationship between two adults? What, exactly, does "watch yourself" mean?

Some nutty people post here.

I am what I am! and you are what you are!

R119 The problem with your statement is that you are disassociating sexual attraction from the whole concept of sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is defined as the sexual, emotional and romantic attraction to the opposite, same or both sexes. Sexual orientation is not exclusively defined by who you feel romantically attracted to.

These self-identified heterosexual men probably feel not too romantically attracted to men and experience stronger romantic attraction to women, but that that doesn't define them as heterosexual.

Their contradictory behaviour is very telling and if you consider that society still sitgmatises homosexuality (and that is a key factor to scape the, in this case bisexual label and the very reason why they avoid the kissing and affection in general towards their male sex partner) there is no firm ground to give credit to these men and their self-proclaimed heterosexuality.

I am specifically talkig about those men in the article who willingly search for sex with men and who enjoy it; not those who use drugs and stuff like that.

They can explain themselves all they want. It should be spread on the flowers to make them grow.

The lack of understanding on this thread is palpable.

Is amusing how difficult the researchers have made such a simple phenomenon. They could have just cut to the chase and said the obvious. THESE GUYS ARE EXTREME CLOSET CASES WHO HATE & THINK THEY'RE BETTER THAN HOMOSEXUALS BUT WANT THE HOMO SEX. There, could it be any easier?

[quote]Using a sensor to monitor sexual arousal, the researchers found what they expected: gay men showed arousal to images of men and little arousal to images of women, and heterosexual men showed arousal to women but not to men.

[quote]But the men in the study who described themselves as bisexual did not have patterns of arousal that were consistent with their stated attraction to men and to women. Instead, about three-quarters of the group had arousal patterns identical to those of gay men; the rest were indistinguishable from heterosexuals.

[quote]Additionally, the bisexual men were more aroused by the bisexual stimulus compared with the homosexual and heterosexual men. Some bisexual-identified men have bisexual genital arousal patterns, although it remains unclear how common they are.

- 2012 study (it's still not entirely resolved, even in academia)

straight dudes, gay monks, crazy crackers, dumb ass fools.

If you like sex with both sexes, then you are by definition bisexual. That's what the word means. You can't claim to be heterosexual if you enjoy sex with the same sex, seek it out, and engage in it even semi-regularly.

Not straight then is my opinion.

That's right. These men make their own definition of sexual orientation to aliviate the anxiety that causes them to acknowledge a non-heterosexual sexual orientation.

I think it very much depends on where in the bisexual spectruum you are found. For example, the closer you are to 50/50 % attraction to both sexes the more problematic it qwill become to suppress your same-sex attraction and eventually you will have to come out of the closet because hiding behind a heterosexual idntity that doesn't exist will make you feel bad inside.

If you feel more attracted to women, let's say, 80% attracted to women and 20% attracted to men, most likely it will be easier for you to create an image of heterosexuality about yourself to present to the world, you will have it easier to convince yourself you are heterosexual given the fact that your attraction for women is stronger, however, since tehre is a 20% of attraction to the same sex you will not be able to brush it aside and when the body asks for it you will look for the instances to express this other side of you.

The more attracted to the same sex the more you need to come out of the closet and be homest with yourself because it is much harder mentally to fake heterosexuality when your attraction to the same sex is so strong.

This video guys.

I hang with some straight-identified dudes that acknowledge they "get down with dudes" sometimes, but they will snap your neck if you call them gay. They view gay identity as effeminate and girly. They also tend to have a lot of kids with different "baby mamas." ONe of them is 28 with eight kids by four baby mamas.

I'm not gay but the guy that fucked me is

From now on please refer to me as Gay Adjacent

This is like the thing people tell about Middle Eastern men. They have same-sex sexual encounters all the time, but they avoid mentioning the word gay or even bisexual. They don't consider themselves either gay or bisexual despite the fact that they flirt and have sex with men.

r106, same with the L word :(

R138 North African and Middle Eastern men who have sex with men but are not "gay" have tender affectionate friendships with their male lovers. So this "no affection" occidental MSM thing, is not "like" what you call "Middle Eastern" and probably meant mostly north African anyway.

I'm not talking about the affection Middle Eastern men show in public; I'm talking about what they do in places that are more private where they can flirt with other men and then go to bed. The only thing that you should not do is saying the word "gay".

Bi is the off ramp to Gay St.

r142, or to straight st :(

Bisexuality is much more common among human beings than this conservative society is willing to admit.

[quote]ONe of them is 28 with eight kids by four baby mamas.

AND has sex with men on the side? Jesus. He needs to put the penis away for a while. Or, just stick to men.

As long being gay equals bad, shameful, disgusting, unmanly, etc.in our society some guys will find ways to define themselves as anything but gay.

But I believe it is important to make certain distinctions. If a guy gets paid to have sex with men (for example as escort, hustler, or porn performer) it should be considered a transaction or service and not get dragged into a sexual identity discussion. Sexual identity is about the willingness to have sex with a person you are genuinely attracted to. Sexual identity is also about accepting your sexual desire and not about what you get out of that sexual encounter (except sexual gratification, of course).

I seriously don't how you can have consented sex with the same sex if you don't feel attracted to the same sex. Not counting the case of men using drugs for it.

Perhaps, having sex with the same sex for money is just another way in which these men lie to themselves. If they weren't paid money to have sex with the same sex they couldn't deceive themsleves to think of themselves as heterosexual...

If the subject gets you so worked up, why do you continue to hook up with "Straight" guys? Stick to gay men. Ask to see their card, and if they don't have one, move on.

It's certainly not uncommon for gay (bi) men to marry, have children, and even sex with other women. They do so out of pressures from family, peers, religion, career aspirations, and society in general. And of course there are gay men repulsed at the idea of having sex with women and could not be aroused enough to copulate with females. There are guys who do not view receiving a blow job from another man as being gay. Some all-toppers deny being gay. Getting straight (no pun intended) answers in polls or interviewed are so skewed due to so many people being in denial about their true sexuality or fear of being discovered. Maybe lesbians are a bit more willing, by comparison, to render more realistic answers in general. That may be debatable though. I find it hard to believe that more than a few are totally 'bi'. Most are more apt to lean one way or the other, while willing and/or capable of having sex or romantic relationships with the other. My gay nephew has this very good looking friend who always has an attractive, out-going girl hanging on him. This guy is very effeminate in his speech and mannerism and appears attracted to non-sexual activities one may view as stereotypical gay . He registers high on the gay-dar if you are a seasoned gay observer. Yet, this guy is very religious, and his parents are very fundamentalists. He may not even be having straight sex. I expect he is conflicted and deeply closeted, or occasionally engages in gay sex whereby he feels safe that no disclosure will be revealed, but has guilt afterwards. I believe this sort of individual will tell the source conducting a survey that he is indeed straight, and in his overt mind, he's conveying the truth.

Speaking of deception, straight men are notorious for exaggerating their number of conquests. My partner of quarter century-plus, had countless relationships with women in his teens, twenties, and into his early thirties. It took him a long time to finally accept he really wanted to be with one person and a guy--me I firmly suppose. My point, not all is a simple yes or no answer, and oftentimes when it is--it's still complicated.

What I have usually read and heard about exclusively gay men who have married women is that in order to have sex with them they use either drugs or alcohol, otherwise, since there is no attraction involved they could not respond sexually and also the guilt of forcing themselves to act a way they aren't.

I remember when I was a teen in the closet and everytime a girl would approach me telling me that she liked me I felt so guilty for hiding and lying about my true sexual orientation and I didn't even have sex with them. It was really stressing.

r150, I can relate. I am a very feminine and attractive gay woman who was closeted for yrs. I did have BF and sex, but I also needed to get chemicaly altered to do it. I felt guilty and empathy for guys who liked me and it was not reciprocated

It is even harder for guys having to fake heterosexuality because you have to get hard with a woman when you don't feel attracted to her and the pressure in your mind to pass off as heterosexual and the guilt for doing what you're about to do.

The word here is "bisexual". Just a minimum amount of attraction to the opposite sex can help you get hard and perform.

The refusal to accept the label of 'gay' because 'gay is effeminate' is rooted solidly in misogyny.

Only a misogynist thinks that "feminine" is less than, horrible, awful, and 'beneath' a man.

[quote] I love my 25yr old straight dude that I suck often ...just saying, no complications just a hot cock>cumming in my mouth!

I am 40 and he's ok with that so no problem just getting off when horny so STFUAO

r153, alright, but people aren't gonna change because they realize it's based on misogyny. Even women put down effeminate men.

R155 the idea that feminine = bad is deeply ingrained in society: men, women, children all subtly taught this message through life.

There are certainly guys that fall into this category. Sex act alone doesn't define one's sexuality. I've had sex with women in my younger days and certainly didn't turn out to even bi in the end. All kinds of circumstances can arise where a st8 dude would have some form of sex with another dude. Can be as simple is you're a bit drunk and another dude offers you great head when you're horny as hell ( and not in a relationship with anyone to do it for you) to you just need a relase. Certainly there are some in denial about it but there are certainly guys that it really didn't mean anything else and they move on with their lives never having the desire again. Dude get's a hard on we dont't tend to be that complicated in certain situations.

Not believable. If you can get hard with the same sex at the same time you say you don't like the same sex you obviously are bisexual to some degree and in denial. I cannot get hard with women and I have had the chance to be with them since puberty hit.

This has all to do with the fear of acknowledging a non-heterosexual identity and having to lose privilige, being seen as inferior, etc.

They cannot suppress their need to have sex with men every now and then, they focifully block their affective needs with the same sex so as not to see their self-ploclaimed heterosexuality fall apart. They might feel much stronger attracted to women, but still they look for men from time to time.

If sexual intercourse were such a mechanical thing then most gay men would not feel the need to come out of the closet (the concept would not even exist), you could perfectly pass off as heterosexual for the rest of your life. You would still have sex and the priviliges of a heterosexual person.

I believe in experimentation, especially when you are just begining to know yourself, but when the pattern repeats itself during your life then that's not experimentation; that's a part of you you cannot suppress for ever.

R158 This has been explained so many times, what don't you get?

What people are attracted to for a romantic/long-term relationship and how they define their own sexuality [italic]does not necessarily correlate to their sexual behavior.[/italic]

They may fairly be called bisexual in the strictest sense of being capable of having sex with either gender but, for all intents and purposes, they're living heterosexual lives. They date women, they fall in love with women, they marry women, they're publicly known as straight which is exactly how they view themselves.

Again, trying to disassociate sexual attraction from the concept of sexual orientation is silly. The definition of sexual orientation is "SEXUAL, emotional and romantic attraction to the opposite sex, same sex or both sexes".

Your sexual orientation is not exclusively defined by romantic attraction.

R159 you're missing the point. The concept of bisexuality in and of itself is complex and there are many varying degrees. The predominant it appears would be men who are romantically/sexually attracted to women but also have a exclusively sexual attraction towards men. So what if they live heterosexual lives. As long as they are having sex with men whether in the open or on the side they are textbook bisexuals. End of discussion Sexual behavior goes hand in hand with identity and orientation. Stop trying to disassociate so much

R161 Amen to this.

R161 Your last post made little sense.

[quote]The concept of bisexuality in and of itself is complex and there are many varying degrees.

I agree. So why go on and try to make it simplistic?

[quote]The predominant it appears would be men who are romantically/sexually attracted to women but also have a exclusively sexual attraction towards men.

What does this even mean? Apparently some words were left out. It sounds as if you're saying most male bisexuals love women romantically but are only sexually attracted to men. If so, I'd love to know the basis for such an extraordinary statement. Certainly it doesn't derive from anything in social science research.

[quote]As long as they are having sex with men whether in the open or on the side they are textbook bisexuals.

I basically stated this already although I'm not sure what a "textbook" bisexual is. Whose textbook? Different researchers conceive bisexuality in different ways. Masters and Johnson, in their work Homosexuality in Perspective, exen propose an additional category called ambisexuals but we'll save that for another thread.

[quote]End of discussion

Well, hardly. Research and debate on this topic will continue as long as sexually is studied. But given the binary view of sexuality most DLers have, "End of comprehension" might have been more appropriate.

DLers are largely stereotypical, effeminate gays. They usually don't understand the large number of same-sex oriented men who are masculine, mainstream, and don't identify as gay or with gay culture.

R164 Yes, very true. They're ghettoized gays who haven't ventured far from their comfort zone into the real world and can't see beyond their own narrow view.

R163 explaining bisexuality in an understandable standard form for the sake of the thread does not mean I was simplifying bisexuality itself smh I don't appreciate your condescending tone either

[quote]What does this even mean? Apparently some words were left out. It sounds as if you're saying most male bisexuals love women romantically but are only sexually attracted to men. If so, I'd love to know the basis for such an extraordinary statement. Certainly it doesn't derive from anything in social science research.

It's very straight forward. Most bisexuals tend to want to live and straight life despite their slight attraction towards men. They rather have a wife/girlfriend than a husband/boyfriend. That's just common sense tbh. It doesn't have to be derived from any social science research imho. I've been on gay boards and forums for years and just listening to experience to everyday gay and bi men on these boards is more than enough for me. Real life examples and experiences give a better outlook I say.

[quote]I basically stated this already although I'm not sure what a "textbook" bisexual is. Whose textbook? Different researchers conceive bisexuality in different ways. Masters and Johnson, in their work Homosexuality in Perspective, exen propose an additional category called ambisexuals but we'll save that for another thread.

The textbook that understands the complexities of bisexuality. To me a textbook bisexual is any degree of bisexual, not a rigid view of it like so many have. Ambisexuals are simply a derivative of bisexuals, it doesn't add much of anything in this discussion. People who identify as ambi, pan, omni etc simply seek to clearly explicitly express the fact that gender does not factor into their own sexuality/attractions more-so than someone who identifies as bi

Sexuality is about attraction. If there isn't attraction, sexuality doesn't exist

[quote]I don't appreciate your condescending tone

You mean like using the phrase, "End of discussion." Oh, wait, that was you.

[quote]Most bisexuals tend to want to live and [sic] straight life despite their slight attraction towards men.

That well may be true (and may be what you intended) but it's certainly not what you originally wrote.

Your earlier post described men who have "exclusively [sic] sexual attraction towards men" not a "slight attraction towards men," a nearly opposite concept. Thus my request for clarification.

I don't need attraction to have sex. I can close my eyes and stick my dick in a glory hole, no attraction, just pleasure.

I let guys suck my junk in the steam, many are not 'attractive' to me. Unless they are trolls if the head is good I close my eyes and it gets hard and shoots the same way as if the guy was hot.

There is certainly that element for sex for some guys r169. You don't always have to attracted to the person to get off. You can be completely detached from it other than the pure physical sensation with zero degree of intimacy involved. Not saying that tends to make for the best sex but it certainly happens. There are times a sexual act cn say little to nothing about your sexuality. Some folks try to go far to deep on the topic.

r169, are you saying you actually do that, or are you saying you COULD theoretically do that type of behavior?

Isn't it interesting that this behaviour is being observed in self-indetified heterosexual men but not in openly gay men? I mean, how many gay men do you know that have sex with women?

A person who enjoys sex with members of both sexes is bisexual by definition. There's no escaping that label. Words have meanings.

It doesn't fucking matter who you're romantically in love with or not. If you can only fall in love with the same sex even though you enjoy sex with both sexes, then you're engaging in bisexuality and hemophilia. If you enjoy both sexes but could only be romantic with the opposite sex, then you're engaging in bisexuality and heterophilia.

This isn't rocket science.

I once knew a guy that was exclusively homosexual, yet exclusively heterophiliac, which was a nightmare situation for him.

"Bisexual" doesn't say a damn thing about who you fall in love with. It's about who you have sex with.

R171 I actually do it.

R172 there are plenty of gay men that have had sex with the opposite sex at some point in their life. I'm one of them figuring things out as a teen. It wasn't my true attraction but eh i had a hard dick so i made it through the experience and performed. I'm sure i was thinking about some guy crush at the time but i wouldn't call those experiences awful either. Not everyone is a gold star gay. Glad i had those experiences looking back because there is now zero curiosity of what it's like etc.

Already been explained. Sexual Orientation is not defined by romantic attraction exclusively but by emotional and sexual attraction, too. If you can have sex with the same sex while you identify yourself as hetero, you're not hetero; you're bisexual.

And I highly doubt that any man who self-identifies as hetero and has sex with men might not, at some point during his lifespan, feel romantic attraction to the same sex when the right guy comes along.

Behaviour tells much more than a thousand words.

That's simply not always true R176. There are times you can have a sexual experience and it have zero to do with your sexuality. The issue gets clouded by the fact there are certainly plenty of closeted gays or bi's out there avoiding the label and all that they associate with it (rightly or wrongly). But there are also times a hetro guy has a sexual experience with another dude for whatever reason. One of the reasons folks can be so uptight about the whole thing is this belief (a it seems to be gays that are the worst about it) that a sexual experience labels you for life about your sexuality.

R177 Anecdotal experience doesn't count here. Many people who are not clear about their sexual orientation experiement, especially during their teen years. That group of people doesn't count here. We are talking about men who identify as straight who some of them have even formed a family but that from time time seek sexual intercourse with the same sex even when their heterosexual sex life is totally satisfactory. These men show a pattern that goes beyond experimentation.

R177 that category certainly exists as well. The point is there are all kinds of categories when it comes to sexuality. It's just not true that everyone who has had sex with another dude falls into the bi category. Some men in particular have an ability to completely dissociate their mind from a sex act or go to another place in their mind to get it up. Hell the wind blowing gets some dudes up.

It is possible to have sex with someone without being attracted to them. This shouldn't be so hard to understand.

I don't have a hard time believing that straight men would have occasional sex with another man. I have two friends -- one I've known since childhood, the other for about 12 years -- and I believe they are straight. They have no attraction to men, yet, once in a blue moon, will let a guy blow them. They are both very very well hung, so maybe it's partly a function of showing off? I also know one other guy who lets his wife put toys up his butt. He loves the way it feels, and he asked me if I would fuck him, because he trusts me. He also said I can't touch his dick, I can't really touch him other than fuck him, and he won't touch me. I turned him down, even though he is drop dead handsome, but I'm sure he'll find someone. He'll be uncomfortable the first time he does it, but he might relax a little and allow more things to happen. I really would characterize all of them as straight, even though they would allow another guy to do something to them.

Here's an analogy. I'm a vegetarian. I might just slip and have a burger once a year, but does that make me NOT a vegetarian? Things aren't as black and white as a lot of people would like to believe.

Exactly. Most guys have certainly done that in their life same or opposite sex. Sometimes you got what you got to work with.

R168 [quote]You mean like using the phrase, "End of discussion." Oh, wait, that was you.

I wasn't conversing with a single person (you) with my original post though and and talking down to them like you did to me directly in your response, but nice try!

[quote] That well may be true (and may be what you intended) but it's certainly not what you originally wrote. Your earlier post described men who have "exclusively [sic] sexual attraction towards men" not a "slight attraction towards men," a nearly opposite concept. Thus my request for clarification.

It is what I originally meant, the wording was off though. I meant exclusive attraction towards men in the sense of having occasional sex with men but not being interested in any romantic relationship with a man .I didn't mean they only have sex with men exclusively, sorry for the confusion.

True 181. There are certainly some str8 dudes out there that will get head from another dude in the right situation/circumstance. I'm not one that has a thing for str8 guys but i had a buddy like that in college. He wasn't seriously involved with someone in those years and just loved great head. It wasn't anymore complicated or repressed agenda than that. It was just a lot easier with me since most girls ( unless you paid them) were not into the just stopping by droping the pants and getting a agreat blow job. Eh he was pretty hot great dick so i certainly didn't mind the arrangement and wasn't anything more than that sexually. It was what it was and we both understood that.

Bisexuality, period.

If men could get hard for anything then there wouldn't be men sexually unsatisfied.

How you like to over simplify such things there R185. Life is a lot more complex than that.

For some straight guys, a gay mouth is just a masturbatory sex toy, nothing more.

But the thing is a str8 guy having his dick sucked by a guy has nothing to do with being bi or gay. It's just a MOUTH in a gloryhole. He will get off regardless of the gender of the person because the penis responds to stimulation, it doesn't have it's own brain to register homophobic bullshit.

This is not hard to understand. If it was a guy having full blown sex with a man well then things are more complicated for sure

Correct. I don't know why some have the the need to complicate such things. Sometimes it really is that simple a dude is getting off and enjoying the physical sensation. Certainly not every guy is that way but there are plenty that are presented with the right situation. Doesn't mean anything about their sexuality in such situations.

R186 It has already been explained in this thread why these men are lying to themselves, the sociocultural reasons to deny a non-heterosexual sexual orientation as well as the selective definition of sexual orientation these men hold on to.

Seriously, if having sex with the sex you are not attracted to were so easy then no one would feel so stressed out for having to fake heterosexuality. The coming out of the closet thing very much has to do with the fact that men who could not get hard with women could not hide their true sexual orientation anymore because the cock was already telling it.

I spend long times not having sex with men and I have my need just like anybody else, but it has nevr crossed my mind seeking girls when I feel desperate fro sex with someone.

If you identify as heterosexual but a man crosses your mind to have sex with at that moment your subconscious is telling you something.

R186 clearly you have your own agenda here. There are times it involves NONE of what you're talking about and times it certainly does. Not every sexual experience or partner involves all that thinking or repression.

R187 & R188, a "str8" guy could choose any number of sex outlets RATHER than a man's mouth. There is his own hand, or a heterosexual partner, or a number of sex toys. There is porn and one's own imagination. The choice of object for sexual pleasure is significant. The choice of object is also situational, and for some men, fungible. But given the understanding of heterosexuality is that one has sex exclusively with the opposite sex, then guys having sex with guys are not heterosexual.

People claim the heterosexual mantle because it affords security, steady company, and a certain amount of increased social standing. It is the accepted default norm for adult relational behavior. In many parts of the world and in the U.S., homosexuality is not accepted, or not fully so. This leads guys to all sort of mental gymnastics to reconcile what they want long-term (social acceptance, privilege), with what they want short-term (a blowjob). People do this all the time in all manner of situations.

Get over it..not all sexual decisions are based on all that. You seem to be the one playing mental gymnastics here and probably ove think everything. Sometimes sex involves none of those things.

Have in mind that heterosexual sex is far more accessible than non-heterosexual sex so heterosexual men can look for women everywhere for this purpose, let alone hetrosexual porn to get off in the privacy of your room.

But interstingly, the article tells us about men who identify as straight but every now and then seek other men for sex, no drugs involved, no unfulfilled sexual needs involved.

Why then do they seek men when there are women available (prostitutes, for example) everywhere and some of them even have girlfriends or wives?

The brain of a heterosexual men is modelled to respond s certain way about women and their minds are constantly creating sexual scenes about having sex with women the same way our gay minds are contantly creating scenes of gay sex that drive us to search for it with men.

There is so much happy horseshit in this thread from all the convoluted thinking of the so-called "bisexuals" you need a shovel to get through it all.

How about straight-identified dudes that only play the active role with dudes, whether orally or anally?

R196 I find them even less believable as straight as the guy on the receiving end of a sucking. Why would a straight man want to suck a cock??

R196 Easy to answer. That's the role most will prefer because in their minds, since they are still pratising the "dominant" role it makes them think that their heterosexuality is not under question.

In the Middle East, homosexuality is just as prevalent as it is in the West, except that it happens when people can't see. Most Middle Eastern men will prefer to be the top because of the same reason I wrote in the above paragraph and the role is a bit less sitgmatised socially.

I think most men are bisexual to some degree and in massive denial about it. Truly bisexual men have few outlets; most women do not want a bisexual husband or boyfriend, so they are forced to be closeted about it. I'm happy to give them the downlow man sex that they crave, however.

[italic]Bisexual[/italic] is becoming a trashcan term. There are a lot of people, mostly men, who say to themselves (and sometimes to others), "I have relationships with this but like to fuck that. I am romantically attracted to them but want to have sex with those." Well, that's a neurotic attempt to segment and compartmentalize their sexuality to lessen their anxiety. There is a lot of fantasy and bullshit at work. I can't say that all bisexual men are just neurotic or narcissistic or too frightened to experience their own sexuality. However, every single man I've ever met who said he was bisexual or just liked a little mansex now and then was one of these. and I'm not the only homo to experience this.

There are certainly a lot of those R200 but just liking a great blow job in the right situaiton doesn't necessarily put you in that category. You get the full spectrum of dudes. From those who would never in any circumstance with a dude, to eh some head why not to those in dential, to those bi guys who do like some man sex but never form intimate romantic attractions for other dudes. It's not a one size all kinda thing. All kinds out there. Not all of it has to be labeled. If it's consenting folks eh do what you do. I like Dan Savage's term hetroflexible. It applies to some.

This reminds me of a chapter in a book about the bodybuilding subculture. This chapter addresses the contradictory behaviour of many bodybuilders who identify as straight but engage in the activity known as "hustling". Basically, hustling is when male bodybuilders offer sexual services to gay men. In the bodybuilding world this is very common, not a secret at all.

Bodybuilding is known for being pursued by men who seem to have insecurities about their masculinity and anything related to homosexuality, bodybuilding is also known for being very homophobic despite the fact that it is very homoerotic. Almost a neurotic need to disassociate their beings from anything that might be perceived as feminine or homosexual.

The chapter tells how some bodybuilders are very homophobic yet become hustlers. They generally are the tops and, in order not to see their self-proclaimed heterosexuality in jeopardy, they also use homophobic language during sex so as to reaffirm in their minds a heterosexual identity.

The book is very much centered around the sexual aspects of the activity given the so many contradictions you will find in that subculture.

And your fantasies of what you read are not really about reality. What you tell us is so typical of the gay man fantasy. We've even made videos of all that fantasy. Now let's get back to the real world not your video fantasies.

Sociological works carried out by sociologists out on the fields collecting information from the sources and observing it themsleves are not fantasy; it's the compilation of reality.

R203 are you really so dumb? JEEZ It's not a fantasy, it's based on reality moron

Some keep spinning in their own mind

yeah he really is that dumb if he is going to base this all on his "sociological" studies. Actually that called more naive and lacking real world experience

Yeah, he really is that numb if he is not going to rely on sociological studies.

Some people need to go to university.

[quote]Some people need to go to university.

Indeed. There are databases, not available to the public, but accessible from any university computer, that can pull up scholarly research on sexuality, including thousands of studies on bisexuality.

I'd start with PsycINFO but there are others.

R167 If what you say is true then the only people that could use sex toys are those that are sexually attracted to latex rubber.

Masturbation would only be possible for those that were sexually attracted to their hands.

Many life long couples lose their sexual attraction for each other after a couple of decades yet they still continue to have sex occasionally.

If you are incapable of having sex with someone without being sexually attracted to them then you are very much in the minority.

R210 yasssssssssss

a hOle is a hOle to straight guys and a thrOat is a thrOat but most girls don't like sucking cock is what a straight guy told me

I don't think "a hole is a hole". If that were the case, then probably, most heterosexual men would have fought against homophobia just to make sure there are enough fortheir sexual satisfaction.

If that were the case, then it should be common for heterosexual men fantasise about inserting their penises in a guy's hole, however, they don't find the male body sexually attractive.

Anal sex is dangerous!!! prolapsed assholes, HPV, and God forbid HIV!!!

that's why every bottom having sex without a condom these days is on PrEP

r215, good luck!!!!

HIV meds and PREP have horrid side effects!!! have a lll the sex u want, jut wear a condom!!!!

R212 who is that in the gif? He's got a nice ass :)

This will always raise suspicions because this behavior contradicts self-identification as heterosexual. Many times, our self-identification may not be exacty 100% the way we feel and we label ourselves according to what feelings and impulses are more dominant/prevalent.

R219 preach

men want to be manly. that explains it all.

true, r219

So many people here act so shocked about things that are widespread in mainstream society. You would have to be insulated deep in an elite big city East Coast or West Coast gay ghetto not to know that there are huge numbers of men who do not identify as gay infrequently to occasionally hooking up with dudes. They would never identify as gay and steadfastly avoid things associated with cultural gayness, but many of them are rather open about the fact that they situationally or opportunistically hook up with the right dude, and have. Just don't ever use the word "gay" to describe them. This is not new nor abnormal.

Agreed R223. Who you have sex with often is about situational or opportunistic factors. I've been with the full spectrum of guys over the years from a st8 guy that just appreciated some great no strings deep throat head, guys that's were "curious" willing to give it a shot given the particular situation, true bi guys that liked both, closet cases that were really gay, to open totally gay guys.

A guy refusing to identify as gay or homosexual while having ocassional sex with men doesn't make him heterosexual.

I think some gay guys fall for the "I have sex with men but I'm straight" thing because they fetishize heterosexual men and prefer to believe they are heterosexual to keep that delusion that arouses them alive.

Acts say more than a thousand words.

R225 exactly, some guys are far too delusional to fall for this "I'm straight but I enjoy sex with men" Fuck outta here with that bullshit

Studies have shown that describing yourself as "gay" in m4m personals ads greatly reduces response rates.

R3 nailed it.

R2, yes and they're really bisexual or even gay.

R225 also nailed the fantasy some gay men, and even bi men I have met have about being with a hetero guy. I know one bisexual man who told me how that was his #1 fantasy but he did have a pretty fucked up thing happen to him as a teenager with a male cousin.

I've noticed that too R215 but I don't get with them I just assume they are HIV+ or will become HIV+ and have safer sex.

This phenomenon seems to correlate with the contradictory behaviour of homophobes who repress their same-sex attraction like those so many pastors.

I mean, both engage in sexual stuff with the same sex, but avoid the emotional and romantic engagement. That way both groups of men don't have to deal with the homosexual/bisexual identity they are running away from.

They are bent.

R223 nails it.

I'd also add that there are lots of guys who experiment when they are say under 25, but then grow up to be fully hetero. There were a good half dozen guys I had sex with in my teens and early 20s who fit into that category. Some were one time things, others more regular, I think for most, I was the only guy they were every with. (I was very bro-ish back then)

Sexuality is a sliding scale, not black and white, and we need to move away from the "suck one cock and you're a homo forever" mindset.

R232 we also need to move away from the "suck several cocks, have a girlfriend" and you're a straight bro forever as well. People need to grow out of their fear of being willing to admit the true/other sides of themselves

In the end, it is very much believed that people who are exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual are a minority. Most people are bisexual to some dregree.

R 234 I was just about to post the same thing.

R232

I think many of the "straight guys NEVER have sex with men" posters are probably unattractive.

I'm handsome and intelligent and "masculine" and have had many men who are "straight" tell me they've never done this before, but why not? Some to satisfy curiosity, some out of misplaced attraction, some out of novelty.

It's just some sexual play, and only 2 have ever turned into anything more than one time flings.

Some guys even take pride in telling people that they experimented.

It's a new world, gramps.

True R236. Its more common than some might think. It's a long known fact gays are capable of getting a hard on and having sex with someone they are not particularly attracted to. I've really only had sex with one guy i consider legitimately str8 and that was all about he loved great head with no strings and it turned him on that someone really did LOVE sucking his cock and it wasn't an obligation thing etc. It wasn't any more complicated than that. It was one sided in that way since he was hot and genuinely a nice guy. I was cool with the situation since i knew what it was and was not. Haven't sucked him off in 10 years now since he's moved onto to a committed relationship etc but still a pretty good friend of mine.

Just so much blatant bullshit in these threads, like R236. Only on the internet will this happy horseshit pass as sane discourse.

"I think many of the "straight guys NEVER have sex with men" posters are probably unattractive."

You keep telling yourself that Miss Mary, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself.

This topic always gets the gays all heated up. If it's just been some fun i've never cared how someone "identified" themselves. Good looking want to mess around we don't need to do a psychological analysis of the whole thing. Dudes are just easy sometimes.

It is really more common than a lot of people think. Just because someone has sex with a guy once or twice in their lives, it DOESN'T make them bi. I'm a vegan, but I might have a piece of cheese a few times a year, but that doesn't make me any less of a vegan. Borders are more porous, and if you insist on labeling, why not choose the label that fits you the majority of the time?

Saying you'e hetero doesn't make you one when your behavior says the opposite.

R238

Wow. You've never had a straight male friend/acquaintance "explore" his sexuality with you?

bi-sexual is the path to being is gay....you are either straight or gay no in between....i did the bi phase in college as I slowly came out and identified 2 years later accepting I am gay....this bi stuff is bullshit after a couple of years

R239

Exactly. How many of those "straight" guys ever came back for a second experience? Only 2 in my life.

But a handsome and "masculine" gay guy can get a "curious" straight guy in bed if the atmosphere is right. Even if it is great sex, it is usually just a one time thing.

Falling in "love" is toxic though. Total recipe for heartbreak.

R243 bisexuality does exist. It is not true that people are only heterosexual or homosexual exclusively. Most people show some degree of bisexuality whereas those who are exlclusively homosexual or exclusively heterosexual, meaning that a person feels exlcusively attracted to one sex or the other are not as many as society tries to make us think.

Cultural bias and prejudice make most bisexual people to identify as heterosexual.

R236 - exactly. The old "just two bros experimenting to see what it's like" thing. Which, for the other guy, was exactly the case. He was horny, drugs/liquor was involved. it happened.

R242 - I think you could have ended your question at the word "acquaintance"-- I think a lot of the "they must be gay" crowd don't have any straight friends, were always too femme to really fit in.

R240 -very well put. Vegan analogy is spot on.

R246

"Guy's guys" don't go for femme guys. I've had some "less masculine" gay acquaintances get pissed if a "straight" gay expressed any attraction to me. As I said, it was a one time thing.

Men admire/fetishize other men who are exemplars of what they want to be, or can compete with them on their level. Fuck, pro wrestling is BUILT on that homoeroticism!

If you can dunk a ball AND deep throat a cock you aren't "gay" just a bro helping a bro out or something.

Men are strange.

Interesting. What type of guys do these "straight" men seek? average masculine or effeminate?

Straight men don't seek out any type of men, is this the twilight zone? I didn't realize DL now stood for Delusional Lionizers i.e. Straight lionizers in this case

Wake up folks

The gay male assholes. like R236/R24/R247, who think straight guys dig the homosex have a heavy investment in maintaining this theory. After all, when you are a total fucking loser and you have nothing else going on in your life except the supposed ability to convince deeply closeted men to have gay sex, you've got to keep the fantasy alive.

And R236, your assertion that one must be ugly if you're not getting sex from a "straight" guy shows the intellectual and emotional development of an 11 year old. Go to an elementary school playground and hang out with your peers.

I only date heteroflexible dudes. Masculinity matters

R236 is "attractive and masculine" but single.

How is it that I, a gay man, would be unwilling and unable to get it up for 85% of the gays out there (srly, have u seen yourselves?), and yet these “straight” bruhs are dicking y’all down left, right and fucking center? Can we say delusional.

The thing is, we know an erection isn’t first and foremost a “mind thing,” but rather a spinal column nerve reflex thing. My cat jumps on duvet and as is his wont does his usual weird claw dance thing .... on top of my groin area!!!...awkward... oops...my dick responds -- *INVOLUNTARILY*--cause that is how dicks work. But never in a million years would I link this involuntary stimulation of genital organ with Mr Tiddles because he is not a sexual object category available in my brain under ANY circumstances. I just could never go there. That is how sexual attraction works or doesn’t work. (BTW just to be clear I hastily reposition the cat ;)

The fountainhead and ultimate proof of these myths is supposedly the situational homosexuality in all male environments such as prison (violent prison gang rape rape is a separate and more complicated issue). But it’s proponents can never satisfactorily answer as to why these (adult) “straight” men don’t just take the much, MUCH easier less stigmatising , less psychologically damaging, infinitely less DANGEROUS option of.. y’know.... masturbating... to fantasies either recollected or wholly invented involving their ACTUAL sexually desired object i.e. women... or use heterosexual porn -- resources which are as plentiful as they are readily to hand!

It sounds to me like those who defend this delusion fetishise masculinity. Probably, they mainly have gay friends who would be considered effeminate whereas the masculine gay guy is very elusive to them. It could also be that the stereotype of gay guy as being all of the effeminate is so strong in them that they still think the masculine gay guy is not really masculine.

Cultural bias tells them that only heterosexual men are masculine. These gay guys fetishise masculinity and search for self-proclaimed heterosexual men to satisfy that need of theirs.

"Most people show some degree of bisexuality whereas those who are exlclusively homosexual or exclusively heterosexual, meaning that a person feels exlcusively attracted to one sex or the other are not as many as society tries to make us think."

This isn't true at all. There is no evidence to prove that most men are bisexual. Studies prove the opposite, actually

I am not at all bisexual. I am 100% gay.

R434 is biphobic and that's just as bad and hypocritical as someone who is homophobic.

Bisexual people exist I'm one of them and I have bisexual men and women as friends. None of us are lying about our sexuality.

I do not believe that most people are bisexual or have desires for the same sex or gender but just have not acted on them, accepted them, or rarely act on them in secret. All the studies about human sexuality I have read including the original Kinsey reports on men and women do not claim that most people are bisexual, instead they show the opposite that most people are heterosexual. The Kinsey scale and Klein grid just show the different ways people can be bisexual they do not say that everyone or most people are bisexual.

There's also some truth to what R254 said. I have a gay male friend that's only into masculine men and he told me how he sometimes would seek out men who identify as "Straight" just because to him they happen to be more masculine.

I guess I’d be considered “straight-acting” (a term I fucking despise as it’s suggestive of masculinity as sole province of the heterosexual males to whom we must cede our own birthright). I’ll admit that in the past I regularly pretended to be straight and curious in order to get out of reciprocating a blowjob, to avoid so much as touching some guys. Sometimes it was hygiene concerns or maybe an unfortunate looking dick... but if I’m honest it was more often than not because he ended up being a little or a LOT more queeny than he initially let on. Often it done out of not wishing to hurt the guy feelings by outright rejecting him, so just let him blow me or HJ and get the fuck away quickly as possible. In hindsight all which probably suggests paradoxically that my role to the more passive, sensitive one lol. Anyway, the point I want to put across is that I feel now that many of these guys were actively colluding in this deception and encouraging me in playing up to their fantasy of this str8 guy encounter. That’s why I’m skeptical. But hey thats just one guys experience.

I think most straight women, if they caught their male partner cheating with another woman, would accept it as a normal if undesirable occurrence, but if they found out their man was cheating with another man they would NOT be inclined to say, "Well, that's just another guy thing."

This lie contributes to the thought that homosexuality is a behaviour and not a valid and existent sexual orientation some people are born with.

I reall can't stand straight men or"straight" men. They seem mental, in my opinion.

R262 so you can't stand your father, grandfather and every other straight male ancestor of yours?

FF R263 for being obtuse.

FF R264 for being an obtuse bitch.

Straight guys after 5 drinks

[quote] Gay men aren't innocent in this either, as we delude ourself into thinking every guy who's sexual proclivities aren't black and white and boring must be gay and hiding it.

Or who won gold without any quads.

BREAKING: 99.9% of MEN LIE ABOUT SEX 99.9% OF THE TIME.

I go to a ABS in the city next to mine every once in awhile. Most of the men in there have wedding rings on, and have straight porn playing as they suck and fuck each other, and a lot of the guys are regulars.

We've been socialized for so long to think of sexuality as binary instead of a spectrum. The idea that people must be all one way or the other, is absurd. People who are strictly heterosexual or homosexual engage in all kinds of sexual practices and kinks that others who also identify as 100% hetero or homo would find odd. Having a desire for a same sex partner imay be benign as someone who has a foot fetish. It's understandable that a man who is primarily heterosexual could enjoy sexual contact with another man, but not feel compelled to embrace that all the time. Is there denial in some of these men? Surely. But there are almost certainly plenty who simply see it as part of their varied sexuality.

Bump

Bump

....

Sexual interaction between males is normal. It forms part of male interaction and communication.

R274: Yeah. For the receiving partner, it sends the message "I am woman, hear me roar!"

Uh oh. Some troll got embarrassed in another thread and is bumping up old posts. Poor Fatt Matt.

R276 knows all about embarrassment because his whole life has been one.

Another bullshit thread to skip over about a population of fucked up men .

Who cares?

Calling heterosexuality “straight“ is incredibly homophobic and always will be.

Message

R279 Calling us "queer" is dehumanizing.

I think the difference is that straight guys who fool around with each other probably do so viewing it as a sexual release, even as an athletic experiment you might say, rather than as some sexual lust activity thing as many gay men might perceive their playing around to be.

They are damaged goods.

Hopefully Muriel closes this 2015 thread.

Goals

[quote][R28] so using your example, if i eat choclate cake all the time, but occassionally eat vanilla cake, I don't have to admit to liking vanilla cake at all & saying I don't like vanilla cake, would be a true statement.

It's more like being a vegetarian; but if you need the release, or you're drunk, or you fight with your wife, or it's just by accident, every so often you eat fried chicken.

[bold]ALL men are predisposed to Homosexuality[/bold]. It's what mother nature intended.

BUMP

Blame people like R284 that we can no longer bump.

Oh great, we're getting lectured by insecure women about why gay guys aren't that attracted to them....

Why are so many gays determined to insist people identify as bi? More research is needed about THIS. Do the gays need some validation?

Bump

[quote]Bump

Why

R293 gay queens like you are bitchy and mean, so I love straight men.

We know, defuckturd. The active self-hatred and homophobia is why we hate you. Seriously, when will you take the hint and get lost?!

R198 I really need to travel to the Middle East at some point. Arab men definitely turn me on. Sounds like Heaven for a total bottom.

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[quote]Straight Men Who Have Sex With Other Men: In Their Own Words.

They [bold]AREN'T[/bold] straight is the answer.

The fetishist of DL love this topic while they jack off to the thought that some "straight" man will fuck them. Newsflash - men who have sex with other men are not heterosexual.

It joost feels reallay noice tyking cock, down't it :D