Aspergers: extreme narcissism?

Webmashter! Stealth Aspergers Thread!

because they have a syndrome.

I didn't know they were liars.....

Both aspies and narcissistis have an empathy deficit, but the similarity stops there. Aspies aren't exploitative or entitled - they're just socially retarded.

entitlement is a weird issue. I used to work with someone who used to demand answers to all his questions and freak out if you didn't answer him. They were usually personal questions. After a while I was like what is it to you?

I am a college prof in a sci/tech uni and have had quite a few. Occasionally they are aware that they are being assholes by inconveniencing myself or their classmates... But I suppose if they sometimes recognise this, like Sheldon does on Big Bang, it means they are low on the Aspie scale or have developed some kind of self monitoring???

It is way over-diagnosed and people like to call themselves "Aspies" because it sounds better than "socially clueless."

We don't receive any training on this by the way. I find them often rather amusing, and they do very good work - thorough and conscientious, so there's that. Except the situations where they have their own "brilliant" idea that is way off task but they insist on pursuing it.

I'm just very alert.

Aspies are lovely people- Jeffrey Dahmer, Adam Lanza, Robert Durst etc etc

maybe 10% of silicon valley and maybe higher % at the executive level. and they are not maniac murderers.

R7 autism is a spectrum disorder as you surely know.

There are high functioning people with ASD who are better placed than those with more extreme ASD, to manage their social behaviors and to acquire new social skills , though that process inevitably is a matter of trial and error.

OP, you fundamentally misunderstand the nature of ASD and NPD. The behaviors in the person with ASD that so infuriate you, are NOT motivated by a wish to upset you, inconvenience you or provoke you for malicious reasons. They are behaviors which stem from a DEVELOPMENTAL DISORDER, a disabled ability to intuit the give and take of social interaction. The majority of people with ASD find social interaction stressful, anxiety provoking, and baffling. Most try their best. If this person you know is upsetting you, calmly point it out, and be very unambiguous. You will likely see positive change if this person is high functioning.

NPD on the other hand is seen in people who are not usually disabled - they are quite capable of understanding the rules of social interaction and they know perfectly well which behaviors are rude, obnoxious, discomforting etc to others. They simply do not give a shit, because their sole priority in life is getting their needs and wants met, on demand, all the fucking time.

The reply above was to R6 not R7

Here is Bomer acting incredibly Aspergic

The Mexican reporter asks an innocuous question and he becomes a total dick and gives her the Aspie death stare

FF to 2:30

Jeez I am R6 and I know all that R13. I am not the "down on aspies" poster in this thread. I know how to deal with aspies. And I am not confusing it with NPD. You are confusing posters. Fank you.

"Aspies are lovely people- Jeffrey Dahmer, Adam Lanza, Robert Durst etc etc "

None of those freaks had Asperger's, you asshole.

Studies have shown that people with Asperger's do NOT have any special propensity for violence. They are also not "liars." They're socially awkward, they behave inappropriately, they don't do well in social situations. But there is absolutely NO evidence that people with Asperger's are inclined to criminal behavior.

R12 yes I do know and this response is sincere, not defensive or sarcastic. I work in a mental health clinic. Bipolar and personality disordered patients much prefer diagnoses like ADHD and Asperger's and in my experience many MDs will go along with it.

Matt Bomer looks like a sociopath!! total flaming phony

Aspies are insufferable

Funny I watched the video and feel I wasted my time. When does he "go all aspie". All I noticed are his creepy-pretty eyes.

I'm an Aspie, and I'm not a liar or criminally-inclined. In fact, people tend to appreciate my honesty, unless it becomes too blunt for some, and I always try to follow the rules and live an upstanding life.

The problem that people tend to have with me is that I can be too literal and specific, and only want to talk about my interests. Also, I can have a tantrum if things don't go my way or if people don't react the way I expect them to. My outbursts have mellowed in adulthood, but some people still find them disquieting.

For the most part, I'm just trying to survive. It's hard for me to keep jobs or friendships, because I'm often on survival mode; I'm just trying to make it through the day. Often, just going to the grocery store is an accomplishment for me. When I'm on survival mode, I also tend to neglect maintenance, e.g. bathing, brushing teeth, cleaning apartment. My apartment has gotten so nasty (my brother calls it 'Grey Gardens') that I've been threatened with eviction notices.

Of course, I have depression a lot. It can be frustrating to high-functioning Aspies like me, who sometimes wish for a friend or a significant other but can't get either because people are 'turned off.' It's a very lonely existence, and I often struggle with suicidal thoughts.

Yes, a diagnosis of Asperger's is much more preferable than a diagnosis of bi-polar disorder or schizophrenia or borderline personality disorder. Parents would rather have their disturbed child labeled with Asperger's Syndrome than any of the aforementioned. That's because the prevalent image of a person with Asperger's is someone who is quirky and socially awkward, but also highly intelligent and gifted in some special way. That is really a crock; there are Aspies who are NOT super intelligent and gifted. It's not like all Aspies are the same. Asperger's is actually tricky to diagnosis. Some people with symptoms of it don't have it; some people who don't have overt symptoms do have it. But it's the psychiatric disorder du jour these days, and it's becoming very overdiagnosed. I think some doctor's tell parents their kid has Asperger's just to give them hope.

The parents of these people drank too much and took too many pills, and illegal drugs. And ate a shitload of processed food. I'm surprised millennials aren't more fucked up than they are. Aspys are just one more result

I dated an Aspie for a time. All the things that I did that usual people do to show they care and love someone he seemed impervious to. Trying to establish and maintain an emotional connection with an Aspie is a total drain and not worth the effort. It's like dating an inanimate object.

I have a friend with a teenage son with autism/asperger's. He's very socially oblivious despite being very bright in school, but he's definitely not a narcissist at all. He's very sweet to his mother and two little sisters and pets. Very polite kid who tries very hard to not be an asshole. He is aware he exhibits behaviors that upset and annoy people, and though he doesn't really seem to get WHY, he does seem to not want to.

I agree with the person who said they can't really help being annoying and aren't really doing it on purpose.

R21 I hope that you have sources of professional support i your life to help you manage your ASD.

Please get in touch with Aspergers groups and find some support for yourself, if you have none currently, or if the help you are currently getting is not really benefiting you.

Please remember when you are feeling low that most people out there are kind. They may not look it, as most people have a lot on their minds and many things to worry about (money, health, relationships etc). But if you want some social life to ease your sense of loneliness, go for it - find some 'Meet Up' group online, or even start your own, based around your interests.

Good luck!

It's just something they made up to justify socially unacceptable behavior.

Instead of making these malajusts toe the mark, we now encourage them.

Just like now. If you take the population of the state hospitals in 1950 of all fifty states and the population of prisons in all 50 states in 1950 (yes I know there were only 48 then but you get the point) and combine them. You will find they are right along the same proportion as in 2010. The only difference is the prison population is way up and the state hospital population is way down.

So we somehow got the brilliant idea while it's cruel to lock up mentally ill people in state hospitals, it's much better to let them out, and leave them to roam about till the get arrested for something or other and toss them in jail. That's hardly any better and maybe worse.

We Americans can't warehouse mentally ill, but we ill warehouse crims. Americans can't tell the malajust to straighten up and fly right and act like a member of society but we can tell them it's OK to be weird because they're sick. And of course the "normal" people pay the cost.

Thats a load of malarky. Maybe some people don't have it and are diagnosed with it, but it exists.

If you are a regular poster on DL you are likely 'maladjusted' too R27 so get down off your high horse and develop some compassion.

ASD people are frequently high functioning and able to live independently, although yes, they do tend to suffer from depression and anxiety, but those can be treated without detaining them on a psych unit, for goodness sake.

There is an argument that some people with long term mental health problems should be detained in psychiatric institutions indefinitely e.g. the severely personality disordered, and the severely psychotic. No reasonable person includes the vast majority of those with ASD in with those groups.

Mnay aspies are super manipulative and sympathy seekers with no empathy! sounds sociopathic, sans the charm

Aspie/sociopath/alcoholic/drug addict. The names change but the behaviour remains the same.

sigh

Many aspies are gay

Bipolar and Aspie, as y'all refer to it , ate not the same thing. Not at all!

I am bipolar and proud of it, but I do not have any traits of symptoms or signs that would make u think I am anything else.

All the psychiatrists on this thread please elaborate.

This: "only want to talk about my interests" is true & exhausting to those forced to interact. Does anyone offer social boot camp for high functioning aspies?

I do believe that many people are afflicted with Aspergers. But, I do not believe that everyone who claims to be an Aspie is one. People avoid taking responsibility for their behaviour if given the chance, so labelling themselves as Aspies seems a good way to absolve themselves of any accountability.

r36, and aspies ironically take no responsibility!!!

Evil aspies lie even when it's so implausible

Hang in there, R21. It's cheesy to say out loud, but it does get better.

I'm a lot like you, except really clean. Lol. That will drive people just as crazy. I don't have many friends myself. I like it that way to be honest. I really hate accidentally offending anyone.

I have a significant other who loves me, despite my issues. We even joke about it. It took a while to find him, but I did. Relationships are possible for people like us.

Pathetic. why is there such an obsession on this site with aspergers? I also don't understand why so many here post negatively about the condition and people who have it. You just sound ignorant and hateful. Do you really hate yourselves that much that it makes you feel better to tear down people who have aspergers? I know several people who have it and they're very sweet. They do the best they can to manage it.

The APA says there is no such thing anymore They've eliminated it in favor of other diagnoses.

So, bitches, how does it feel to have a disease which no longer exists?

New study apparently showing that 92% of serial killers and mass murderers have Aspergers - to be published in the American Journal of Medicine

That "study" is an absolute crock of shit, a total lie. It reminds of those "studies" that claimed vaccines cause autism. That was a crock of shit, too.

Sorry about that - I posted the link. I read more carefully and noticed over at the side this site had an article about proving the existence of God (in a joint "study" with Bob Jones "University"). Wish I could delete it.

It's absolutely fabulous, R42. Thanks for asking.

R41/R42 did you even read the article? They didn't do away with a recognition of the set of symptoms that were formerly grouped under the heading of Asperger's. They didn't come out and say, "We've decided there's no such thing as Asperger's, those people are just ass-holes." Very little actually changed, as the concept of a spectrum existing for the severity of symptoms of Autism already existed—and Asperger's was already thought of as being on the high-functioning, low severity end of that spectrum. I can't say that I've seen the DSM-V but my guess is it's not going to be much different at all. I bet it will be more like "the syndrome formerly known as Asperger's."

In short, Aspberger's syndrome isn't gone. It's now included in the spectrum of autism. Learn to read!

Frankly, I don't like the change, for multiple reasons.

First, it's rather imprecise. Yes Aspergers is likely a mild form of Autism, but functionally they're very different. An individual with Aspergers can go through their entire life seemingly largely unimpaired, save for the occasional quirk. Those diagnosed with autism, or what we have until now typically defined as autism, typically face far more difficulties adjusting to day to day activity. Because they are functionally very different things, it just doesn't make sense to give them effectively the same diagnosis. Schoools for example, often use a diagnosis to decide how to handle students, and shuffling children with Aspergers through the same programs as children with autism would effectively be a disservice to both groups.

The second problem is the ideas and images associated with the term autism. Fair or not, society views autism as a severe impairment. Aspergers on the other hand, is either unknown, or associated with quirky oddly balanced savants. While it may not be fair to view the autistic as impaired, its even more unfair to lump both groups under a single label with such baggage.

A diagnosis should mean something, they should give reasonably educated individuals some idea what the needs and shortcomings of an individual are. By trading two separate specific diagnosis for a single highly imprecise one, they muddy the waters and make things very confusing for people.

I mean, I do understand the logic, but broad definitions like this really bug me.

Aspergers would never "monopolize the conversation" OP is confused

Okay- first and foremost, 'Asperger's Syndrome' is not simply disappearing. It is being included as part of what has so-far been called 'autistic disorder'. These diseases are called the 'Autism Spectrum' because there are many different manifestations of Pervasive Developmental Disorders, and they are related to each other in some ways. Read the actual information that's been released before you start making sensational statements.

Secondly, while there are undoubtedly people who 'self-diagnose' themselves as having Asperger's, there are also many people who have been diagnosed by a qualified professional. You don't know who really has been diagnosed, or who chooses to call themselves an Aspie because it's cooler than being Autistic or having ADHD or because the subjective nature of psychological diagnosis means that someone might not have directly observed/noticed the 6th out of 6 characteristics necessary for an Asperger's diagnosis, and therefore gets labelled PDD-NOS, which most people take as 'We-don't-know-what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-you-get-over-it". It's not a matter of wanting to feel special enough, it's a matter of wanting some sort of explanation and course of action to deal with one's difficulties while not wanting to hear Rain Man jokes for the rest of a person's life.

Third, those of us dealing with Asperger's Syndrome (as I am with my son who suffers from it- and yes, it was diagnosed by a professional) have known for quite some time that AS is part of the autism spectrum. This is not a new understanding of Asperger's, it is simply a change in the classification of it. The descriptive term may cease to be used, or it may continue as an 'unofficial name' for the particular combination of symptoms. The people who need treatment will still get treatment. The people who don't won't. Hopefully, the people who don't have any education or understanding of it will simply, respectfully, keep their ignorance to themselves.

[quote]Many aspies are gay

There's a recent study on autism spectrum disorders among 91 transsexuals, both male-to-female and female-to-male. In addition to sex, the transsexuals were subdivided according to sexual orientation - one subgroup was attracted to the opposite-sex (opposite in relation to their birth sex), and the other exclusively to the same-sex. The latter we can logically consider a subtype of gay men/lesbians.

MTFs and FTMs were not distinguishable in measured autistic traits. However, all transsexuals found to fit an autism diagnosis - there were five of them - belonged to the non-homosexual group.

Autism is correlated with gender dysphoria - that's why they're overrepresented among transsexuals. But you're wrong about their being gay - as the study above suggests, autism doesn't have much to do with homosexuality. There probably are two *separate* paths to gender dysphoria - one involving homosexuality, and another autism.

I wonder how much of the idiosyncrasies that distinguish trans activists - the unbridled anger, the proneness to express violent desires etc. - is due to elevated autistic traits in this population.

r51, a stupid aspie

R22, that's simply not true. Parents want the ODD or ADHD diagnoses for their children because they are a faster path to disability or they get them the heavy duty drugs, so their kids will quiet down and not cause trouble.

[quote] I didn't know they were liars

Aspies claim not to be capable of lying. Yet, I've caught many in lies...huge lies. Then again, maybe those people were not aspies after all and were simply lying about it.

R54 I'm an Aspie who posted upthread. It's not that I'm incapable of lying, but we'd prefer not to lie. I, for one, like to stick to the facts, and if I'm forced to go off-script (so to speak) I quickly lose my sense of self. It's hard for me to pretend to be something I'm not., so I'm a very bad actor. Also, I don't like the feeling I get in my chest when I know I'm not being genuine. In short, I'm a terrible liar because I can't even fool myself, never mind anyone else.

The good thing about being an Aspie is that I'm not easily swayed. I don't change my interests for people. I don't change my morals or opinions. That came in handy growing up when peer pressure was involved. However, a drawback is that I can be very gullible and taken advantage by people. I've been swindled by people I'd considered friends. I have a hard time "reading" people and their motives, so if someone is nice to me I can't see beyond that. A line from INTO THE WOODS has come in handy: "Nice is different than good." I have to remind myself sometimes when I encounter people, which isn't often because I'm usually holed up in my apartment. I get anxiety and sometimes it's hard for me to go out of doors.

I am no expert, but there are definitely deceptive qualities in these types. Perhaps they are unintentional and just play out that way practically...

For example, there is someone on this very thread who first billed himself as dealing with the disorder as the father of an AS son. Later, he billed himself as an Aspie. Now, it's quite possible this is because both he and his son have the condition. It's is also possible he is 'lying by omission' when it suits the rebuttal better.

It's all extremely confusing...

Ive taught Aspie's and r55 description of himself seems to fit what I know of most Aspie's. Lying is very difficult for them, because they're so literal, so black and white. Lying takes imagination and in many (but not all) people with Aspergers this side of them is not fully developed. I've seen Aspies telling the truth even when it would have been far less embarrassing to just lie. I once asked an Aspie student why he was 30 minutes late to class, so he went into detail about his "explosive diarrhoea" when he could have just said he over slept or missed the train. Most people with Aspergers are incapable of lying without giving themselves away, plus it rarely occurs to them as an option and coupled with how uncomfortable it makes them they rarely bother. On the flip side, they're terrible at picking a liar too. They assume because they always tell the truth so does everyone else.

This thread caught my eye originally because I work with someone who now identifies as an 'Aspie.' I have worked with him for 15 years, and he revealed this diagnosis about 2 years ago. I am not sure if he just got the diagnosis, or just decided to come out to coworkers.

Anyway, he exhibits exteme behavior at department meetings. He will go off on tangents and give soliloquies that will sometimes ramble on for several minutes of left unchecked. If anyone tries to reel him in by suggesting he is off topic or causing us to have to stay at the meeting longer than necessary, he throws what can only be described as adult style tantrums.

I have seen him begin to shout and curse, flip over tables, and threaten coworkers (usually about reporting them for not supporting his disability). I have no doubt he would have been fired long ago has he not identified as Aspie. In fact, some of the more cynical coworkers are convinced he revealed the diagnosis to avoid impending termination.

I was hoping someone with experience would have insight about the responsibility of those around an Aspie to deal with what can be creepy behavior of not scary and abusive at the exteme.

What are people's thoughts here?

How much is a coworker required to put up with out of sensitivity and support to a condition?

In closing, I have also seen him appear to lie about the tantrums, but it's hard to tell for sure. He claims either they didn't happen or that they are not getting the minutia correct in the recollection to superiors. I can't tell if he is lying, or just doesn't perceive the situation as inappropriate as it it to others as well as social norms in a professional setting...

Is narcissism a real disorder? It seems like everyone just throws it around to describe anyone selfish and entitled. I think 90% of people fall into that category.

There's a cure for Asberger's Syndrome.

It's called 'manners.'

R58 Is your coworker named David O. Russell?

All jokes aside, R58. Report him. You shouldn't have to deal with that.

Do you think Rose Nylund from THE GOLDEN GIRLS would be considered an Aspie?

For one, she's very literal, e.g. DOROTHY: (entering the house, shaking off her drenched raincoat) "Whew! It's really coming down!" ROSE: "What's coming down?" DOROTHY: "The Liberace marquee at Caesar's Palace!" Also, DOROTHY: "I single-handedly ruined a man's life." ROSE: "Which hand?" DOROTHY: "This hand!"

She has problems with inference and abstraction, e.g. BLANCHE: "[My sister] asked me for a kidney?" ROSE: "Why would she need a kidney?" DOROTHY: "To feed the cat, Rose!" Also, BLANCHE: "Have you ever head of something called 'dirty dancing'?" DOROTHY: Of course, Blanche, they did it in that movie. ROSE: "What movie?" DOROTHY: "Lawrence of Arabia, Rose!"

She can be infantile: Loves stuffed animals, e.g. owns teddy bears named Fernando and Mr. Longfellow and gets depressed for days when Fernando 'disappears' and almost has a fit when the others nearly sell Longfellow at the garage sale. Furthermore, she loves to play under the bed and re-enact PETER PAN scenes in her bedroom and celebrate birthdays at children-themed restaurant chains.

She talks a lot about a favorite subject, e.g. St. Olaf stories, and is oblivious to other people's protests regarding said stories.

She doesn't understand sarcasm, e.g. DOROTHY: "Do you think it's gonna be that easy getting rid of me?" ROSE: (about to answer) DOROTHY: "It's a rhetorical question, Rose."

She can be tenacious, e.g. when Roger from work doens't want to be friends, she doesn't understand why or won't accept it and goes out of her way to befriend him to disastrous results.

She can be honest to a fault and stickler about rules, e.g. when the girls go grocery shopping for the first time, Rose keeps pointing out the correct price to the cashier who'd put it in wrong, which annoys the other girls. Also, when BLanche wanted to install a hot tub without a permit, Rose called the city inspector on her.

I would say the Rose character is just dim. But, she's not really dim, which makes for comedy. She's a comedy character, not a real person. You won't meet anyone in real life who is exactly like her. But it makes for great comedy.

Ok this will be long winded but here goes

R58 what field are you in? And what is his role within the company?

When you say he goes on tangents are they about his vacation or are they tangents he might perceive as relative to the topic? Eg someone is discussing the sales data and casually mentions a minor glitch in the current data, will your Aspie co worker ramble on about that glitch, how it could be fixed, how it happened in the first place despite being totally oblivious to its irrelevance to the current discussion? Sometimes when an aspie gets on a train of thought they find it hard to get off that train of thought and being interrupted might cause them to feel anxious and irritated.

What are his social skills like? Does he have friends, does he laugh much, does he meet your eye, does he often not get the subtext or sarcasm in a conversation?

Lastly, how often does he "flip out?" Is it always around the same issue?

I'm trying to work out if he's genuinely Aspie r58 because if he's pretending nothing you do will help situation. If he's genuine then his whole demeanor might change by clarifying the rules. Aspie's generally love rules. An inter office email telling everyone that meeting are to be conducted in a timely fashion, that aggressive behaviour will not be tolerated and could result in termination if the rights of co workers to work in peace is violated regardless of the reasons for the aggressive behaviour. Depending on where he is on the spectrum chances are he won't even realise the email is really about him but might take the advice on board.

One of the issues with older people with Aspergers is that they may never had any kind of schooling around dealing with their behaviour. These days aspie kids are often taught how to fit in with their peers (eg Michael if someone asks you how you are, it's polite to ask them how they are even if you don't really care) but adult aspies may have to wing it and it might be as simple as someone not having explained the rules to them. Explaining the rules during the tantrum doesn't work, it helps to explain them prior. (Michael if the situation is making you angry you will need to leave the room, if your behaviour becomes aggressive please note this is grounds for dismissal. Your coworkers rights are as important as yours).

R58 I would also recommend getting legal advice. Having Aspergers shouldn't trump the right of others to work in a non aggressive environment. It might also help to speak with an OT who specialises in adult Aspergers to give some tips on how to best manage his behaviour.

Thank you R65: those are helpful suggestions and pieces of insight. I will definitely try the memo in advance lining out specific procedure. I have actually tried that before, but your post made me realize I was probably being too vague and general to be effective.

In response to some of your inquiries about him:

He has never shown a capacity to enjoy humor or pick up on sarcasm. He takes things literally, often in the way Rose does from golden girls as described up thread. Once, a colleague told him his idea would never sell to the masses. He responded by saying 'we don't work in sales so why does that matter?' This has often made him the butt of jokes within the group, which doesn't help matters. While he doesn't get the joke, he clearly understands he is being pushed further into outsider status.

His eye contact tends to be one exteme or the other. When he is talking, he tends to zero in on one person with intense unblinking stare. I get this often because I think I am his 'soft place to land' within the group and he trusts me the most. On the other hand, if someone tries to speak to him, he never makes eye contact and seems to get fidgety & sometimes blush.

Finally, his tangents are always about something work related, but he tends to focus on a smaller detail or lesser priority. If we were to make a list and rank our top 20 problems by priority, he will zero in on #17 and talk for 15 minutes about a tiny detail about #17.

We try to remind him that our time together to troubleshoot is limited and needs to be spent more effectively. This sends him into a tantrum and he will tell us he cannot concentrate on anything else until he finishes his thought. He has even suggested we all just shut up and let him finish as a way to actually save time and allow him to be good at his job.

R14 I know everyone says Bomer is really sweet and you keep calling him aspie but I did see him becoming a total dick in a nanosecond few times over shitty small issues. I don't think he has aspergers but short temper.

R58/r66 ok he's really not faking, this guy has Aspergers. I imagine he really does feel he NEEDS to finish his train of thought and will feel rather overwhelmed and frustrated by his inability to do so. I wonder if he would agree prior to the meeting to perhaps finish that train of thought in an email. Eg Michael in today's meeting we're rather pressed for time. I know that you sometimes have something to say that is important but that we don't always have time to hear or discuss in detail. If that occurs would you be happy to put that in an email, which you can start during the meeting so you don't lose your train of thought, and then email to the rest of us? That way if anyone has any questions they can approach you after the meeting and in the mean time the meeting remains within its allocated time slot"

Obviously I don't know your collegue but for some aspies that might work.

I also assume he's quite lonely as aspies often seem like they don't want or need friends but often just don't know how to make friends. Some of that aggression may have to do with his exclusion, coupled with always feeling misunderstood. Having Aspergers can be very isolating. It might help to remind co workers that even though he doesn't get the joke, he still knows he's the butt of the joke and perhaps the snide remarks should stop while he's present.

If your company can afford it and depending on how serious you feel the situation is you could look to speak with someone who deals with adults with Aspergers (an occupational therapist/adult education teacher perhaps) to learn how to best manage this situation. You might also want to include him in this. People with aspergers usually deal really well with direct conversations and he may not be remotely offended by you bringing in someone to help.

Aspies are calculating cruel

Some are and some aren't. But, you can never trust them to do the right thing by you.

R70 how do you mean?

I don't think they are r69 but they can be brutally honest. Some people, especially sensitive people, see it as cruelty, but it isn't deliberate and it isn't calculated, it's just the truth. Aspies have very poor filters so they will casually mention facts or opinions the rest of us would never say out loud if they've never been taught the social etiquette the rest of us learn as we grow up. They mention in front of the entire sales department that you've had four piece of pie in 4 minutes or tell you that colour makes you look blotchy or that report you handed in had six spelling mistakes. It's mortifying to us and seems at times just sheer meaness but to them it's just the truth.

Their concept of what is right or wrong is often nebulous. How cloudy depends where the Aspy is on the spectrum. Don't believe for one minute an Aspie is capable of caring about you, or your heart will be broken.

Unfortunately for Aspies, most of us do not have the patience of saints and can only take so much of them at a time. It can be like having a precocious, obnoxious, know-it-all kid hanging around driving you up the fucking wall.

R68: I asked my colleague in question today if he would help me craft an email to the rest of the department that would outline rules and procedures for initiating topics at our future department meetings. He actually seemed to light up at the invitation. One of only a handful of times I have seen him smile in 15 years!

We are having lunch tomorrow and will make an attempt at some rules and structure. I am a bit nervous about how it will go, but I am also eager to try and be a bridge builder for my colleagues.

I know he loves Mexican food, so I am taking him to my favorite taco shop around the corner from the office.

Stay tuned...

^^written by R58

Uh my guy is definitely mildly aspie even if he won't admit it, and he never talks about himself, he only cares about work, politics, and the mets

That's not aspie, skippy.

That's great r75. Be prepared for him to want to incorporate some rather self serving rules (Marie needs to start bringing a different type of cookies to the meeting because I don't like chocolate) but remind him that this email is for the benefit of everyone, not just an opportunity for him to lay down the law about how he'd like the meeting to go. Be direct and patient. I can't wait to hear how it goes.

The people with Aspergers that I have known actually cared very much about people,. They do not so much lack empathy...they could understand the emotions of others, but what they could not understand is what people were thinking. So they could understand how things might emotionally affect others, they could not understand how someone with those emotions might think so they could not recognize how the behavior arising from those thoughts signaled emotion.

If you came right out and said that you were happy, angry, sad, etc. they would act like anyone else confronted with those emotions. They just could not recognize them unless you explicitly stated them.

The weird thing was that one Aspie was like a lie detector. He could tell when someone was lying...but he could not identify their emotional state. Weird.

Sorry to all you special snowflakes who call yourselves "Aspies" - Aspergers no longer exists! A panel of experts eliminated that diagnosis from the DSM 5. The diagnosis of Aspergers was so over-used it became what we in the biz call a "garbage" diagnosis - a meaningless label. And parents were demanding that their underperforming kids be diagnosed with that to qualify for special educational programs - private tutors (that the svhool districts had to pay for) , more time to take tests, etc.

Adios!

R81 most people with Aspergers now falls under Autism spectrum disorder, it still exists it's just classified differently. Of course as a person claiming to be a psychiatrist you'd know this.

R79: I will keep that in mind...

On another note: I want to thank you for your calm and wise approach to this thread. Even if tomorrow doesn't go as planned, you have really helped me. I have felt confused and isolated in my own anxiety over how to work with such a person for so many years. Your insight has helped me feel empowered to try and make things better.

You seem like a wonderful teacher and I sure hope your students and their parents know just how good they have it as part of your classroom!!

Autistic people are capable of lying and are as honest or dishonest as other people. Some of them are very honest and some aren't, just like anyone else. When they're "brutally honest," it's often because they don't grasp the social nuances that would be required for tact. Or they want to be assholes. They're capable of that, too - the stereotype that mentally disabled people are precious angels is a harmful and inaccurate one. They're people with flaws and weaknesses and moments of irrational obnoxiousness just like anyone else.

What I have noticed is that autistic people tend to be *shitty* liars, because they don't know what makes for a convincing approximation of truth-telling. But this idea that they're inclined to be beatifically moral is just dumb.

I know a guy I'd say is an Aspie. He's an older gentleman so I don't think he grew up in an era with a knowledge of the symptoms. He was diagnosed as a mathematical whiz when he was about 5 and went on to become a chemical engineer. He is pleasant enough but doesn't know any diplomacy. If someone is boring him he will just say "shut up" and piss people off and be oblivious to it. He doesn't seem to have a lot of empathy. He has kids he's not particularly close to, though one daughter has come to the realization that he has Asperger's. When people die, he's kind of blase about it, even his mother and brother. Didn't shed a tear or seem upset at all though he was close to his mother. Funnily, he doesn't watch tv but he did see some episodes of BBT at his daughter's and enjoyed it and really liked the Sheldon character.

Sorry R82. Guess you haven't perused the peer-reviewed research regarding eliminating Aspergers. A well-respected study on this showed that 75 percent of those currently diagnosed with Aspergers WOULD NOT meet the criteria for autism spectrum disorder. Of course you would not know this - you don't regulary review the published research on this.

Sorry to all you former Aspies.

More trouble gor former Aspies....

I have a coworker who is wearing everyone out and we all are convinced he's got asperger's

He's smart, wants to be friendly and knows his job very well but his lack of social skills is destructive. He's in his mid-30s but seems to be helpless. His parents support him even though his salary is sufficient for a relatively comfortable independence. He's a slob, wears dirty clothes, his work area is a pig-sty. He'll have lunch at his desk and then drop the containers etc. on the floor around him along with a good deal of the food. Won't make any effort to throw anything away. His desk and file-cabinet drawers are stuffed with junk. He LOUDLY interrupts conversations, tries to involve himself in everyone's business, acts paranoid and insecure and thinks any word you have with management is about him.

Management made a constructive criticism in his review and this sent him into an emotional tailspin. Put him practically in tears. He was convinced he was about to be fired even though management, at that time, assured him otherwise. He then proceeded to hound management with constant text messages regarding his work desperately seeking approval, and went from person to person pleading for advice... even though he has years of experience and his job should be second-nature. He has largely ignored the advice he's been pleading for and has begun deriding management for not replying to each and every of several text messages per day.

One coworker finally asked him if he as asperger's. He claimed to have never heard of it.

We have felt bad for him as he is a kind person and very smart and creative but he is his own worse enemy. His paranoia and constant need for approval have done him in.

R88 where do you work?

I never thought Aspergers and Narcissistic personality disorder were similar until I read the personal accounts in this thread. I've been around the personality disordered all my life and there is a similarity between the Asperger stories and my own experience with PDs. I think it's the lack of theory of mind. And the tantrums. And the treating people like objects. And the lack of self-awareness.

R89

Dallas.

Perhaps he'll see this or someone will forward it to him.

R88 that was a very accurate description of the person I know who is an Aspie. Minus the job unfortunately.

Thanks r58, that's a really nice thing to say. But don't sell yourself short, your interest in your aspie go worker is really refreshing. Bless Aspies, but they generally don't elicit a lot of compassion from those around them.

I'm not working in the field at the moment, I was a bit burnt out and have changed careers. However I do miss it and really believe it's my calling in life so will eventually go back. I look forward to hearing how your meeting goes.

r58, hope all went well. I am so impressed by your patience - I have little.

Aspire are social tards

R94: the meeting was a mixed bag, but I expected something along those lines...

Your tip about vigilance toward a self serving agenda was spot on. However, he was receptive to my editing notes on his bullet points. I tried to take the spirit of his concern and mold that into something of actual concern within the group as a whole. That was bumpy and he was agitated about push back in the beginning, but he seemed satisfied when we were done.

His only other issue was over billing in the email. He felt he should be credited as co author. I was firm yet gentle while reminding him of his consulting role. He eventually accepted being a footnote at the end credited as a 'key contributor'

I was exhausted by the end!

^R58

R58/r96 I'm really glad it went well. You sound like you handled the situation perfectly. I'm not surprised you were exhausted, some people would have throw in the towel in the first 5 minutes. Hopefully your next meeting runs more smoothly. Good luck.

r58/r96 I am really inspired by your patience and generosity as a coworker. If only more in management, or more in general including myself, could set such an example. It's not easy work but I hope you got satisfaction. Also have enjoyed reading commentary and advice from r79/r93/r98.

Thank you both!

I'm sorry that the term "Asperger's" was eliminated, because it sent a message to lay people that this was a person with a disability that could be mainstreamed into an environment with guidance and some patience, as opposed to a person that can't function independently (autism).

That's like saying a person that needs reading glasses and a blind person with a seeing eye dog are both on a sliding scale of "visually impaired." Technically, they both are, but nobody thinks eyeglasses means you can't drive, or function in the workplace without assistance. And many more people need glasses than are blind.

Since most people aren't psychiatrists and don't have access to other people's medical records, using such vague terms isn't helping those on the mild end of the scale, it's just encouraging discrimination and ostracizing people that may be pretty functional. It also makes people feel like it's hopeless to try and teach these people better social skills, because they're too impaired to learn anything.

Exhausting and futile attempts at showing them any illuminating insights!!!! essentially sociopaths!!!

They are exhausting! truly from wrong planet

Aspies are master manipulators with no conscience !!! But come across as rule followers to the extreme

Can aspies be taught to say "Please" and "Thank you"? It seems impossible.

Also the biggest snitches on the planet worse than nelly queens

Is it true they have a higher tendency for suicide or is just to get attention ?

R106: were you wronged by an aspie?

R107, by a few

Any stories you feel like sharing?

Most of you have no idea what Aspergers is. Rose Nylund as portrayed is not any kind of aspie.

In fact, most of your examples are not aspies. One suspects that many of you are entitled and narcissistic and expect other people to read your minds without your expressing thoughts, and this causes you to label about a third to half the people you meet as aspies for their failure to do so.

R110: do you have any insight to offer that would help the situation?

[quote] Also the biggest snitches on the planet worse than nelly queens

And just what is it that you did?

I'm not sure that's true R27. As bad as our prisons are, they were usually more humane than mental health facilities. You won't believe that, but it's true.

R21, your not cleaning your room is not caused by asperger's syndrome.

You are not "high functioning" but depressed enough to get a prescription.

Perhaps a lot of "high-functioning" aspies are "low-functioning". I read Elliot Rodgers' manifesto and he was a despairing mess of neuroses completely unable to behave in society. Brushing his own teeth and learning to drive aren't great qualifiers to be functional.

They suck

cold and unfeeling!! Hypocritical and vicious !!!

Aspies as master manipulators? Have you ever met anyone? They lack the insight into nuances of behavior that would be necessary to be successfully manipulative.

Aspies just do not have the subtlety. That is one of their traits. They lack theory of mind, meaning it is hard for them to infer what others are perceiving--i.e. they don't know you are bored until you tell them.

I don't find them to be particularly honest or that they see situations clearer than other people - blurting out whatever is on one's mind isn't displaying the wells of eternals truths, rather displaying biases.

Bump

R119, indeed. They literally make me ill.

R118, you have been deceived. They manipulate and con people.

Try to avoid them.

"I never thought Aspergers and Narcissistic personality disorder were similar until I read the personal accounts in this thread. I've been around the personality disordered all my life and there is a similarity between the Asperger stories and my own experience with PDs. I think it's the lack of theory of mind. And the tantrums. And the treating people like objects. And the lack of self-awareness."

BINGO

OP, why are you so exhausting and creepy? How many bottles of wine have you had today? Tell us about how feminine you are and how much you pine for straight women because you can’t possibly be attracted to other lesbians.

'I don't find them to be particularly honest or that they see situations clearer than other people - blurting out whatever is on one's mind isn't displaying the wells of eternals truths, rather displaying biases."

Yes!! And they love to lecture people. Yet they are the biggest hypocrites .

Yes!! It's all about me

"Trying to establish and maintain an emotional connection with an Aspie is a total drain and not worth the effort. It's like dating an inanimate object." They are hollow vessels with no concern for others. They just like to always have to be right, even when they are WRONG.

The myth about them being truth tellers is wrong. They just doggedly stick to whatever information fulfills their biases.

I worked with one guy who hated Asians (something to do with his great-grandfather in WW2) and chocolate, so Jun Yee who brought choc chip cookies to our meetings instead of banana bread was evil, and trying to bring him down.

r129, They lie a lot. And will NEVER admit they were wrong.