Pamela Smart

She did it

I think the only set up was the one female student wearing a wire while Smart self.incriminated herself in some way. It's been ages so I don't recall exact details.

She won't get out anytime soon. She's still crying innocent and showing no remorse.

Her voice alone is deadly.

Lying whore.

Lying homicidal whore.

To me she was average looking at best, never got the "hot" thing.

I'll take lying whore for 200, Alex.

[quote] To me she was average looking at best, never got the "hot" thing

Straight, desperate, and horny teenage boys have a very loose definition of " hot" in that the looser a gal is, the hotter she gets.

Helen Hunt did a better job as Pamela Smart than Nicole Kidman

Helen and Chad Allen steamed up the sheets during their love scenes.

Love the movie "To Die For". Nicole Kidman is at her most beautiful.

"Helen and Chad Allen steamed up the sheets during their love scenes."

In the tv version of Moment by Moment!

what does the documentary say?

"I won't tell you what I think of Pamela Smart because I am a Christian woman!"

[quote] In the tv version of Moment by Moment!

What's that suppose to mean?

Here are the two on-screen lovers in a passionate embrace (Chad & Helen)

Here is the trailer for the Helen Hunt/Chad Allen version

r13, they are about as straight as John Travolta and Lily Tomlin.

I haven't watched the show, but she was caught red-handed. Lots of weird behavior - She threw out all Greg's things in trash bags right away, down to the frozen wedding cake. It was widely known she hung out with her teenage students quite a bit. She went right back to dressing slutty and cruising for dick immediately after Greg died, and made no attempt to hide this. She was more worried about the dog being traumatized by the killing, and ordered the shooter to put "Halen" in basement first. She was getting off on being interviewed by some local news celebrity. I remember a lot of the stuff from the trial and the family's statements. She is where she belongs.

[quote]To me she was average looking at best, never got the "hot" thing.

She looked okay in a two-piece bathing suit. By New Hampshire standards that makes her a super-model. This murder "had it all" - seduction, illicit sex, insurance money, betrayal, wiretapping, and a young and colorful cast of characters.

Pam Smart was a cold, calculating murderer, doubtlessly guilty and the principal author of the crime. She mistakenly thought that her word as a 22-year-old adult would have more weight than that of three teenagers who were copping to murder. She wrongly assumed that any alibi that was physically possible would have to be taken as reasonable doubt. Even the defense's own star witness couldn't help but incriminate her just by relating her actions. It is despicable that she continues to protest her innocence.

I know it's a creepy queer cliche to say a killer (or rather his accomplice) is sexy, but I was young in 1991 and I thought Patrick "Pete" Randall was a little hottie, even if he was a homicidal thug.

In the documentary she said the 3 boys jail cells were together so they had plenty of time to plan out a story to frame her.

She was married less than a year when her husband was killed, I didn't know that. Her husband was decent looking but maybe when she got attention from horny teenagers she thought the single life would be more fun.

Smart was guilty as hell.

She manipulated the hell out of those boys.

For the one boy, it had to be the sex because Pammy was not that attractive.

Funny thing about that, R19. In court the boys told three slightly different versions of the night of the murder and the planning leading up to it. This is actually taken as proof of authenticity because rehearsed alibis tend to sync up too neatly whereas the recall power of three honest witnesses often leads to minor variations in detail.

The boys were busted by a teen witness who overheard an incriminating conversation that led to two of the three killers to confess to him in full. They had nothing to protect and everything by telling all they knew from that point forward and they knew it.

You could tell Pam was pissed off that they boys were getting to plea bargain for lesser sentences. At one point she attempted to sway the jury by declaring that if she were guilty, it would only make sense for her to plea bargain too and since she didn't, that must make her innocent. The infuriated judge ordered the jury to ignore that remark.

All the boys involved are out on parole, with only William Flynn eligible for parole in June 2015. Less than a year.

Yet Pam is still locked up for life.

Why parole for all four boys, yet not for her?

The kid she was having sex with was 15. They watched that movie 9 1/2 weeks and simulated the sex scenes. He didn't want to kill the husband but she said divorce wasn't an option because the husband would get the furniture and the dog. Kinda sad in that when the kids made the husband get on his knees before they shot him, they asked him for his wedding ring. His response was that he couldn't because his wife would kill him.

If memory serves, Smart was pissed because hubby had cheated.

Because they were only doing her bidding, R23, and she was the only person to significantly profit from her husband's murder. She cooked up the entire plot then seduced a shy outcast and told him that they could only go on being together if he killed her husband. He fell for it and recruited his friends who fancied themselves "hitmen" and went through with the deed wondering right up to the last second whether they'd really do it or chicken out.

Incidentally, her murderous rage began when her husband confessed to cheating on her with another woman shortly after their marriage. One nasty but telling little detail about her mindset was that she left the basement door open and gave the boys permission to keep anything they could rob from the condo. But on the day of the murder, she left the condo wearing all her best jewelry including rings on every finger and multiple chains around her neck. She wasn't about to let the young killers posing as burglars to rob her of her best stuff.

It seems like just about every murderer in the world has some idiot in favor of their release from prison. In Smart's case, it's the "captivated director (in Salon's words)" Jeremiah Zagar, who wants the world to know that Pamela Smart is "not the demonic ice princess that the media created."

Zagar says that “on a baseline level, I hope the film shows she got an unfair trial and gives her the chance to tell her version of the story.”

This dumbfuck says "Pam Smart is a person who has been affected adversely two ways. One is that she got a really unfair trial and that unfair trial has caused her to have an incredibly disproportionate sentence that has put her in prison for the rest of her life. The other thing that happened was that her story was stolen from her." SHE'S been "affected adversely?" What about her poor dead husband? I think HE was the one most "affected adversely." And what about her 15 year old lover? I'd say his association with rather "adversely" affected him, too.

He's asked this question: "Do you think there’s any chance the current or future New Hampshire governor will intervene to free Smart? Is that something anyone’s hoping for?"

His answer: "The public opinion may change. The men got out but the taxpayers of New Hampshire continue to pay for Pamela Smart to be in prison … it’s ridiculous. By turning her into a realistic, nuanced person and changing the narrative, people can see she’s not the demon that was created, she’s not the ice princess, she’s something else. She’s someone else, who’s not a danger to society. And for her sake, I hope that happens."

Yes, poor, poor Pamela Smart has been so wronged and she's not a bad person and she deserves to get out of prison. Good Lord, what an idiot. But then it's kind of understandable. Pamela Smart obviously has a "way" with men. I think this clod of a director fell under her spell) he finds her "funny, smart, and effervescent") the same way her underage lover Billy Flynn did.

In interviews Smart DOES come across as an ice princess, a very cold, emotionally detached woman. But I guess for this Zagar person she turned on her fatal charm.

"And what about her 15 year old lover?"

Yeah, how about that innocent little angel who killed a man? Pam's guilty as fuck but let's not pretend the boys were so wonderful....

lol @ R12

I'm another person who liked the TV movie that starred Helen Hunt. I miss those kinds of TV movies.

"Yeah, how about that innocent little angel who killed a man? Pam's guilty as fuck but let's not pretend the boys were so wonderful...."

He was a 15 year old kid who was taken advantage of and manipulated by an adult woman. I don't think that absolves him of responsibility, but it was obvious that she was the one in control of the situation.

She was never that much to look at, but she could do herself up to look sexy, as she did in those pictures of herself she gave little Billy Flynn. Obviously she knows how to get men to do what she wants, and is still doing it. That director seems to have lost his mind.

What's the title of the documentary so I can find it.

[quote]Helen and Chad Allen steamed up the sheets during their love scenes.

With what, a steam cleaner?

r32 “Captivated: The Trials of Pamela Smart” on Monday nights

"She was never that much to look at, but she could do herself up to look sexy, as she did in those pictures of herself she gave little Billy Flynn."

Little? Ha! He wasn't a toddler. Teenage boys commit crimes every day. Juvenile detention centers are full of them. Yes, Pam, is pure evil but to act like "little Billy" was some angel or had no say in the matter is just silly.

r30, me too. I also loved the Amy Fisher case and the TV movies for that were good too (I liked the Alyssa Milano one the best)

Thanks r34

[quote] To me she was average looking at best, never got the "hot" thing.

She was what you would call "New Hampshire Hot".

"Yes, Pam, is pure evil but to act like "little Billy" was some angel or had no say in the matter is just silly."

Nobody is saying Billy Flynn was an "angel." But I don't think this this unprepossessing, puny 15 year old boy was the mastermind behind the murder of Smart's husband.

The smitten director rather lamely tries to pin all the blame on Flynn by saying that something Smart said was "misconstrued" by Flynn, leading him to believe that she wanted her husband dead. Of course, being madly in love with her he took it upon himself to relieve her of the burden of her marriage by killing her husband. That's what Smart would have you believe. But it's pure bullshit.

Billy Flynn is guilty of murder, but Pamela Smart is even guiltier.

Billy Flynn will be out of jail in less than a year.

Pam is stuck in jail until she dies.

And who pulled the trigger?

R40, you need to read more about the case. The verdict was correct and so were the sentences. Flynn admitted his guilt and plea bargained for a lesser sentence for turning state's evidence. Smart to this day pretends to be innocent. She absolutely deserves life without parole. The boys would never have killed her husband if she hadn't manipulated Flynn into doing it.

[quote]That's what Smart would have you believe. But it's pure bullshit.

There was no misconstruing anything. Flynn and Raymond Fowler made an aborted attempt on a previous occasion to kill Gregg Smart. Pam was furious at Flynn because he chickened out on that first try. She applied even more pressure on Flynn. There is a mountain of evidence showing that Pam had every intention of getting her husband killed while making herself look uninvolved in the crime.

Funny detail: on the wiretap recordings in which she incriminated herself beyond reasonable doubt, the foul-mouthed Pam said "fucking this" and "fucking that" so often that one of the jurors quipped, "It looks like we have no choice but to find her fucking guilty."

If I remember correctly she also told the boys how awful Gregg was and that he was physically abusive so they'd feel more justified in killing him.

I saw the documentary.

I have no doubt Pamela was the master mind behind the killing. She was definitely guilty.

However, after seeing the show I do not think she received a fair trial. The venue should have been changed. They railroaded one of those boys to make his info match the others

Even though she didn't receive a fair trial she's where she deserves to be.

She claims her husband had a one night stand which is pretty shitty after just getting married. If it is true that is.

Why would anyone make a documentary about this bitch? If this dickhead wanted to focus on media coverage of high profile cases and the possibility of an unfair trial, there are surely others who are actually worthy subjects.

"Why would anyone make a documentary about this bitch?"

I think the very disturbed director considered her hot and sexy. I think he got a hard-on for her, so he makes a movie trying to show her in a favorable light. But I don't think many people will change their minds about her. She's not a sympathetic character at all. Hopefully she'll rot in prison. That's all she deserves. The father of her murdered husband had this message for her after her conviction: "may you live long and suffer."

r46 - It was the first televised trial, before OJ and before Survivor and the rest of the reality shows took over television.

She's a manipulative murderous whore.

She's exactly where she should be.

THE END

[quote]If it is true that is.

It is true. He confessed it to her. He told others he regretted confessing as she made life hell for him in the aftermath. He had long hair and they were into heavy metal music when they fell in love. Once married, he got a businessman's haircut and sold insurance. They lived in a condo.

She ran the AV room at a neighboring town's high school but she wanted to be another Diane Sawyer. She looked at his cheating as a free out to her marriage vows. She resorted to murder because she wanted to keep all the furniture and the dog. She gave the hired killers explicit instructions not to get blood on her white leather sofa.

Pam never cried when they found her husband shot through the head. She never cried during or after the funeral. Baffled witnesses could only attribute her icy composure to previously untapped strength of character. Once the news of the boys' arrest broke, however, Pam was distraught, suddenly awash in tears and unable to face reporters without betraying her devastation.

She only confessed to having an affair with a fifteen-year-old. She tried to pass this off as a purely physical attraction. William Flynn was an awkward adolescent from an underprivileged background who was easily manipulated.

Flynn discussed Pam's plot for him to kill her husband with his friends, as did Pam's female friend among the student body, a fat loner named Cecelia Pierce. She wore the hidden mic that police used to get Pam to incriminate herself. One of her co-workers at Burger King testified that Cecelia claimed to know a "teacher" who was plotting to murder her husband. Pam foolishly shared her plans with too many young people who were bound to blab and give away the game.

Jesus, she has not aged well. Actually, none of them have aged well. Prison diet?

First rule for killing your husband, don't tell a bunch of teenagers.

The fellow prisoners in the scene where she read her story (or whatever) looked like they wanted to kill her.

I don't think prison has been kind to her at all.

"I don't think prison has been kind to her at all."

Some people thrive in prison. Karla Faye Tucker, the Texas pick-ax murderess, positively blossomed on Death Row and became a moony-eyed Jesus freak in love with the world. Smart hasn't fared as well, probably due to the fact that she's such a cunt. In October 1996, Smart was severely beaten by a couple of inmates, resulting in a metal plate being placed in the left side of her face. The two inmates beat her after accusing her of snitching on them about their prison relationship. No, Pamela Smart is not an endearing personality. But obviously she was able to manipulate the director of the documentary into viewing her as sympathetic and misrepresented. But she's a remorseless murderer. Look at her eyes, her affect; this woman is without a conscience, without a soul.

November 10, 1997 WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. - Pamela Smart, the New Hampshire teacher convicted of seducing a student into killing her husband, told police two inmates attacked her because she told prison officials about their lesbian affair. Smart is pressing assault charges against the two women for the 1996 attack, in which she suffered a fractured eye socket requiring plastic surgery. Smart was convicted in 1991 and is imprisoned in New York because New Hampshire has no maximum-security prison for women. A report Sunday said the inmates suspected Smart of revealing their affair to the prison superintendent.

looking old and matronly

let me try that again

She looks care-worn and under-fed. That is a hard forty-five, although it seems the photographer intended to enhance her haggard appearance.

r56, that hairstyle would make most people look bad

I agree with R44 that she did not get a fair trial and the director makes interesting points about how individuals can get fair trials in a circus-like environment. Also, I wonder if the Cecelia person made all the money on the interviews before or after the trial and if that was disclosed at trial that she personally profited from this whole thing.

That said, there was no information in the documentary that convinced me that she was innocent and it had this distinct tone of "every picks on Pam even though she's such a good person."

I did wonder about her hair - how did she get those curls and Carmella Soprano-style hair in the joint? None of the woman on OITNB ever have curling irons and they are in minimum security.

[quote] Some people thrive in prison. Karla Faye Tucker, the Texas pick-ax murderess, positively blossomed on Death Row and became a moony-eyed Jesus freak in love with the world. Smart hasn't fared as well, probably due to the fact that she's such a cunt. In October 1996, Smart was severely beaten by a couple of inmates, resulting in a metal plate being placed in the left side of her face. The two inmates beat her after accusing her of snitching on them about their prison relationship. No, Pamela Smart is not an endearing personality. But obviously she was able to manipulate the director of the documentary into viewing her as sympathetic and misrepresented. But she's a remorseless murderer. Look at her eyes, her affect; this woman is without a conscience, without a soul.

Yeah Karla Faye Tucker was a good example. She married a pastor who had been working at the prison and she also befriended a writer who later wrote a book about their friendship. The book was made into a TV movie with Diane Keaton as the writer and Jennifer Jason Leigh as Karla.

Susan Atkins and DL fave Betty Broderick were/are in the category of people who thrive in prison. Susan was described as being likable among inmates and the prison staff. Same with Betty Broderick who is seen as a mother figure with younger inmates.

Pam Smart always comes off as unlikable and really smug in interviews and the voice probably irritates her fellow inmates.

She's innocent, I tell you. INNOCENT! It's like we're soul sisters!

A friend of mine was her academic advisor when she was a student at FSU.

Pamela destroyed any credibility regarding her innocence during a tv special about the case years ago. During the special, Pam was interviewed by the host and towards the end of the show, Pam (who of course proclaimed her innocence throughout) was asked "if Billy were able to say one thing to you right now, what do you think it would be?" or something along those lines. Pam's face beamed and she got the most smug, arrogant look on her face (no sadness or tears) ... she didn't even try to pretend to think about it, without hesitation she smiled and said "he'd ask me if I really loved him". Later in the show, the interviewer asked Billy if there is anything he would want to say to Pam. He of course responded, in a sad and pained voice, "I'd ask her if she really loved me".

Pam was completely inside Billy's head. She knew he loved her, she pretended to love him, she easily manipulated and controlled him. She is a murderous life-destroying cunt who belongs exactly where she is.

Billy is the murderous, life-destroying one.

R65, please read R64. There is more than one way to kill a person.

I remember one of A&E's old shows American Justice or City Confidential covered the Pam Smart case and I remember her being interviewed.

What do the guys look like these days?

Tonya Harding always gives off Pam Smart-esque vibes.

They both have a hardness that makes me think they'd have no problem cutting a bitch.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It is a little odd that Flynn is always breaking down and seems very remorseful. She seems cold and unyielding. But he did the killing.

I guess she's like Manson.

If you want another documentary to watch this month you need to see Showtime's "L Word Mississippi: Hate the Sin".

It is excellent. It profiles what it's like to be gay in small towns in the deep South.

She's always had a face that looks like she's pissed off and confronting you over every single thing that has happened. This is her trying to look non-committal and pleasant in a video interview.

r73 resting bitchface

Prison time has not been kind to her. At least the guys bulk up in the weight room.

I live in the NH seacoast and watched this yesterday.

Good lord!

The trashy accents, the trashy people, and Pamela Smart has to be the most singularly UGLY woman I have ever seen.

Nothing ever happens in this boring and non descript state so that was WMUR's only claim to fame as a news station.

NH hot. Love that!

This whole crime boils down to li'l Billy liking wiggling his wienie in Pam's poontang.

[quote]Billy is the murderous, life-destroying one.

Billy was her dupe. He wasn't even supposed to be the killer. His friend Pete fancied himself a hard-core hit-man. Pete volunteered to do the dirty deed. He even planned to use a knife to slit Gregg's throat. But at the moment of execution, he realized he couldn't do it. Billy had a gun which he had only planned to use to threaten Gregg (they were posing as burglars.) Realizing that there was no turning back in the middle of the deed, Billy ended up shooting Gregg in the back of the head.

Neither of them would have ever been in that situation if Pam hadn't seduced Bully for the express purpose of manipulating him to kill her husband. They confessed and earned their parole. She lies to this day and deserves to die in prison.

Anyone apart from her poor mother who takes her side is a numbskull. I get the feeling Pam may confess after he mother dies. I think her pride won't allow her to admit to her mother that she was the one who made the murder happen.

R78, he didn't have to be a dupe. He chose to be one.

"he didn't have to be a dupe. He chose to be one."

Cut him some slack. It wasn't like he was a thirty year old man; he was an easily manipulated 15 or 16 year old kid. She was lavishing the unprepossessing teenager with pussy. It's understandable that he would do anything to keep fucking that poontang.

I saw the documentary today. It was amusing how Billy Flynn was described; the filmmaker would have you believe he was quite attractive, with his "baby face" and "big eyes". He was depicted as being, well, desirable; I mean, he was so cute, how could Pam have not fallen for his charms? Actually, he was nothing to look at, which is why he was so smitten with Smart. "Here's this babe in her twenties and she wants ME"...no doubt he was amazed at his good fortune and wanted to keep the relationship going, at any cost. And I believe totally that it was HER idea to eliminate Gregg. It had to have been.

The documentary has Smart scoffing at the idea that Flynn was a "virgin" when they first started screwing. Yeah, I bet he'd had dozens of lovers before Smart...NOT.

At the end of the film Smart talks about how great it's going to be when she gets out of prison and what a splash in the media THAT will cause. She says that in that disconcertingly grating, unpleasant, affectless voice of hers. Dream on, bitch.

I hold the unpopular opinion that Pam Smart didn't seduce Billy to kill her husband. I think she was pissed off at her husband, had an affair with one of her students, realized she'd prefer to be single, wondered what life would be like if her husband was gone, and planted the idea in Billy's head and it just took off from there. I think the more they talked about it, the more it started to sound "logical".

Similar to story of "Bully" where one person throws out the idea, the idea gathers energy and eventually it's a group think thing.

If I was 18 and killed someone b/c of peer pressure, I might try to blame the group too. It's the easiest way to share the blame. Not saying Pam was innocent but I don't think she's any more guilty than any of the others.

R80, teenagers are perfectly capable of killing people on their own.

[quote]Pamela Smart has to be the most singularly UGLY woman I have ever seen.

Let me introduce you to Ann Coulter.

r70, he has kept the same hairstyle all these years

"teenagers are perfectly capable of killing people on their own.

But I don't think it's true in this case.

R81, you need to read more about the case. Pam, Billy, Cecilia and Billy's accomplices drove around openly discussing the murder in the days before it happened. Pam chewed out Billy for failing to kill Gregg on an earlier occasion. She knew everything.

The state produced no less than 37 witnesses who offered incriminating testimony. Pam incriminated herself on tape. The plot was hers from start to finish.

Smart wasn't a teacher

Her hair in her pre-prison photos is right out of "Working Girl"; that huge, ratty eighties hair. Her hair now is even more ridiculous; long, pale blonde sausage curls. She does NOT have the coloring for blonde hair. I didn't think female inmates could dye their hair in prison, but I guess it's allowed where she is.

The lines between seem a bit blurred to me.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Guilty as charged.

Both Eve Ensler and Gloria Stenim have written letters to the judge urging Pamela be released on time served.

They say she is being punished simply because she is a woman. If this was a man, he'd be out by now.

R92 Nonsense, if she were a man, or a woman who wasn't white and blonde nobody would be giving this nut the benefit of a doubt. People play the lack of evidence card because it's what they want to believe.

No forced entry. She was the ringleader who could have taken a plea deal like they did.

I used to think it sounded kind of hot getting it on to Van Halen (if he was legal age that is)

R93 that is what Gloria Stenim & Eve Ensler and dozens of other feminists say who have taken up Pam Smart cause that she got screwed over by the justice system.

Starting on 01/10/2020, there's a 2020 multi-part special called "Tainted Love, Murder & Pamela Smart."

IMO, she's a psychopath. She does remind me of Tonya Harding.

If she confesses now she can possibly be paroled.

Like Bill Cosby she can't bring herself to do it because of stubborn pride or whatever.

,,,,