So what went down between Rue and Dorothy Lyman on "Mama's Family" that caused Rue to quit?

She doesn't say that, OP - she says the show decided to write her out, not that she left by choice.

Regarding her role, she does say she was disappointed because at the time she was cast, her character of Aunt Fran was supposed to be Mama's spitfire nemesis, but before writing the pilot script, the producers saw and loved Lyman on "All My Children" and decided Mama's nemesis should instead be a daughter-in-law played by Lyman, and that Aunt Fran should be mousy and uptight.

But she never mentions any problems with Lyman personally, nor does she connect Lyman with her being written off the show.

Didn't Aunt Fran swallow a toothpick and die?

Didn't she leave to do "The Golden Girls?"

She choked on a chicken bone, r2.

No, r3, getting written out of "Mama's Family" when she did turned out to be a lucky break because it was meant she was free when "Golden Girls" started casting, but the two things were independent of each other.

Carol Burnett was a huge fan of "All My Children". My guess is she wanted Dorothy Lyman to bump Rue.

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Not to mention the fact that if she hadn't left, we'd never have had Iola Lucille Boylan!

[quote]I had a friend over for dinner

30 years ago?

I assumed that Rue left simply because the show was canceled by NBC. I imagine the pay-scale was lower in first-run syndication. It was stranger that Vint's kids were written out of the series, although Bubba's arrival certainly improved the scenery.

On the first episode of the syndicated series, Vint says Buzz and Sonia had gone to live with their mother, out of state. They were never mentioned again.

R9 of course Betty would return for an episode. Does she ever turn anything down? I'd be very curious to see what is on what must be a very short list.

[quote]Betty White came back for a cameo as Ellen when Mama was in the hospital.

Ken Berry ("Vinton") also guest-starred on GOLDEN GIRLS as Rose's former St. Olaf boyfriend, Skipper, called so because he liked to skip.

This dinner party sounds riveting.

[quote]Didn't Aunt Fran swallow a toothpick and die?

Yes.

[quote]She choked on a chicken bone

No.

Aunt Fran and Mama went to the Bigger Jigger for dinner. Fran had a roast beef sandwich and a string of it got caught in her teeth. She went to the bathroom to pick it out with a toothpick. Mama thought she'd play a joke so she went into the bathroom with a fish tail (she had fish for dinner), stuck it between her teeth and yelled to Fran, "Just be glad you didn't order fish!" She surprised Fran who inhaled the toothpick. We didn't see any of this, just Mama describing it to Vint, Naomi, and Iola while waiting for the limousine to take them to the funeral.

I know WAY too much about the show...

The way that Thelma describes the fish tail in her mouth is beyond funny, especially the way Thelma grits her teeth and juts out her jaw to show how it looked. I swear you can almost see the fish tail between her teeth.

They come back from the funeral and find a most delicious looking morsel finishing off the ice cream after eating all of the food that was for the guests coming back to the house. He thought it was a welcome home from juvie party for himself.

Bubba brings a whole new dimension to the show from then on. The tight jeans barely covering that bubble butt and full package era is just around the protruding corner. Yum.

[quote]Aunt Fran and Mama went to the Bigger Jigger for dinner. Fran had a roast beef sandwich and a string of it got caught in her teeth. She went to the bathroom to pick it out with a toothpick. Mama thought she'd play a joke so she went into the bathroom with a fish tail (she had fish for dinner), stuck it between her teeth and yelled to Fran, "Just be glad you didn't order fish!" She surprised Fran who inhaled the toothpick.

I always thought this was horrible. Mama basically killed Fran. I didn't understand why people were laughing at this death and the laugh track was turned up so much. It was just a horrific way to die and not funny at all. And Mama didn't even have any guilt over killing her sister. It was just all fun and games for everyone. Disgusting!

Dorothy will also be Opal to me.

Dorothy & Rue were friends pre-Mama's Family.

She even cast Rue in a play she directed.

R18 must be a blast at parties.

When it was on NBC "Mama's Family" was a piece of crap; unfunny, stupid and lame. When it went into syndication it was somewhat more bearable. But there never should have been a tv series based on those "Family" sketches. Thelma Harper was a monstrous human being; those tv shows tried to soften and humanize her, but it didn't really work. She was always someone who thrived on other people's misery.

Did Rue and Lyman ever work together on AW?

First off Mama's Family was cancelled. Then two years later, it resumed production and went into syndication. By that time both Rue and Betty were signed to Mama's Family.

So even if Rue wanted to do Mama's Family she couldn't because she was attached to Golden Girls.

In terms of Naomi, Carol Burnett was a HUGE All My Children fan. Her hubby (soon to be ex) was developing Mama's Family and when Carol read the breakdowns, she told her husband she knew the perfect actress for Naomi. Dorothy Lyman who just won an Emmy for Opal Gardner on AMC.

At that time Rue had thought she had the inside shot at Naomi. To her surprise they asked her to read for Fran. A job being a job, she took the part.

So in short, Rue was not fired. The show got canned, and when it resumed production she was already on Golden Girls.

You are forgetting the mad-for-television movie: "Eunice."

That's crazy. If Rue had stayed with Mama's Family, Betty probably would've wound up playing Blanche, which was the original plan. And Elaine Stritch probably would've been Dorothy, since I don't see Bea taking the role without Rue in the mix.

That "Eunice" special was ghastly. It was a bad rehash of a lot of the Family skits, using the same elements of several of them: Duke Reeves, Carl in the toilet, Fluffy the rabbit. There weren't many laughs; it was a lot more depressing than funny. The characters (with the exception of poor Phillip, the only sane, successful Family member, played by Ken Berry) were constantly screaming and sniping at each other over nothing, constantly belittling each and tearing each other to pieces. Their lives were worthless. In a 15 minute comedy sketch that can be made to seem amusing but to watch it for a solid hour is draining. I was sorry I watched it; it's not comedy, it's tragedy.

I have a cookie jar just like the one on top Mama's fridge. Inherited it from my grandma. Fresh cookies, anyone?

R16 [quote] I know WAY too much about the show.

Yes, and I think it's making me fall in love with you.

The introduction of Bubba was like a light going off in my body. I needed no more explanations. There was no more confusion, no more doubt. Bubba did that for me, y'all.

Yeah, Bubba awoken stirrings in me too. I must've been about 15 when he first appeared. I had no idea what it meant to be gay, but I remember thinking how handsome he was and how he filled out those tight jeans so perfectly. I wonder if Allen Kayser(sp?) knows he so many gay admirers back then.

R32, you were fifteen and didn't know what "gay" was? I knew as far back as I can remember, around 5-years-old. Even then, I knew that gay was two men being sexual together. Then again, I was repeatedly molested since I was a toddler, so I guess I was more aware of those things than the average kid. It just amazes me that some people didn't know what sex was until they were into their teens.

She was married 4 times and I believe she really thought she was a great beauty.

R34 wasnt her book called "My first FIVE husbands?" and then she divorce that one, too.

Anyway, the show (in any of it's incarnations) sucked. Even the CB show sketches always went on way too long (and people complain about SNL)

R18, you aren't the only one to find the recounting of Aunt Fran's death unamusing. I thought it was horrible. Nothing remotely humorous about it.

Did Betty appear on the syndicated version when she was doing GG? Damn, she'll do anything won't she? I remember during season 1 or 2, she did some cross-promotional stunt with NBC's soaps.

I read several articles stating Bea Arthur could not stand Bette White. Also it was Arthur's decision not to continue that caused the show to end The writer's could have had her return to Stanley, and find another "renter."

Betty made guest appearances on Mama's Family.

[quote] Bea Arthur could not stand Bette White.

Rue said the opposite. That Bea would never go on her dinner or lunch break, without Betty

This whole Betty/Bea feud has been blown out of proportion. Yes, there were occasions when Bea's and Betty's respective personalities clashed on set, but they didn't hate each other. Bea was reserved and a stickler for professionalism and getting the job done, whereas Betty was a cut-up and happy-go-lucky and that sometimes got under Bea's skin. When you think about it, in that regard they weren't that different from their GG characters -- Dorothy was always getting exasperated by Rose's cheerful disposition. They're not different from colleagues in an office -- one who wants to do her job and go home, and the other who likes to socialize and be the class clown. But they got along more often than not and usually had lunch together.

R28/R29 I recently started watching the syndicated series. I'd only seen the first two seasons and didn't much care for it, though always thought Mama was a hoot. But the syndicated series seems better -- and Bubba is a vast improvement from the previous kids. He's naturally funny, and it doesn't hurt that he's hot.

My favorite bit (so far in syndication) is when Bubba was hiding some runaway delinquent (played by the voice of Lisa Simpson, forget the actress) in his room, and Mama comes to tell him she's been nominated for some church position, and Bubba's slowly closing the door on her as she speaks, until finally she's like, "I'm not trying to sell you a vacuum cleaner -- OPEN THE DAMN DOOR!!! and the door flies open, almost off its hinges. haha

I haven't read through all the comments, but what I've read elsewhere is that after the show was cancelled after season 2 Rue and Betty White went on to Golden Girls. So obviously Rue was not even available for the new Mama's Family when it was brought back by another network.

Neither were the 2 kids who played Vint's kids. The boy who played Buzz went on to become quite successful outside of acting. I have no idea what happened to the girl.

But what I found most surprising is that Carol Burnett apparently stopped speaking to Vicki Lawrence when she found out she had signed to do a new Mama's Family with her soon to be ex-husband Joe Hamilton. It too many years for Carol to get over being mad at Vicki.

R39 why is it surprising that Carol stopped talking to Vicki? And why was Carol being so petty?

I actually loved the Eunice dramatic special. It didn't cheat the tragedy for cheap laughs.

Burnett was amazing in the post funeral scene and even Betty White proved to be a fine dramatic actress.

In the interviews Dorothy didn't even know if Rue was still alive, lol

Carol had no reason to be pissed, didn't she steal Joe from his wife and they had eight kids?

R43 Carol and Joe only had 3 kids together, including the one who died from cancer in the early 2000s.

I meant Joe's wife before he married Carol, I think he had 8 children with her.

[quote] R 39 why is it surprising that Carol stopped talking to Vicki? And why was Carol being so petty?

According to Vicki Carol called her up out of the blue one day at home to pitch a new show with Eunice, Mama, etc., and Vicki told her she had already signed with Joe Hamilton to do a Mama re-do. She said it was obvious Carol was incensed and she hung up and that was the last time they spoke for years until finally one day Carol called the house and Vicki's husband answered. Carol did not want to talk to Vicki, only her husband. The husband told Carol how much the loved and missed her and Carol told him to "give me some time to get back to normal, about a year or so" or something to that effect. Sounds like Carol had some serious emotional problems after the divorce.

[quote]On the first episode of the syndicated series, Vint says Buzz and Sonia had gone to live with their mother, out of state. They were never mentioned again.

No, he doesn't. Vint's first wife ran off to be a showgirl in Las Vegas which was a laugh because she'd have been a 40 year old show girl (think Barry Manilow's Lola). The only mention of Buzz and Sonja, is when Mama is uptight about after the funeral the get together at the house and she says "no Eunice and Ed, no Buzz and Sonja" That was it.

When Vint and Naomi have their baby it's written as if Vint never had children before.

Betty White did an episode of the syndicated series. I recall in an interview she said, she would've done more guest appearances but she was never asked.

Here it is from Vicki Lawrence's mouth...

"A funny thing happened the day I signed with Lorimar. Carol called and said, 'I think I'd like to put together maybe a little syndicated show with the family characters. I'll do Eunice, you do Mama. Doesn't that sound like fun?' I said, 'It does, but I just signed with Lorimar to do Mama's Family for Joe.' It became a very abrupt conversation, and Carol hung up. I then went to Al and asked him what he made of the whole thing. He agreed it was really weird. I wondered if I was about to get caught in the middle of yet another struggle between the two of them . . . During her divorce, Carol and I went through a 'cool' period. She 'divorced' everyone and remained distant for a lot of years. She called the house a few years ago. I was standing at the sink peeling carrots, fifteen feet from the phone, but Garrett got to it first and I only heard his half of the following conversation: 'Hello? Oh hi. Yeah, sure, he's in the other room, on the other line. You want me to tell him you're calling? My mom's here, you want to talk to her? No? Okay. Goodbye.' When he hung up I asked him who it was. 'Carol Burnett.' I was shocked. 'What did she say?' 'She didn't want to talk to you. She only wanted to talk to Dad.' Al called her back later that night, made a point of telling her how much we missed and loved her, and she told him, 'I'll be back. It's just going to take a while longer. Give me another year or so."

Carol was pretty close with Vicki's husband, eh? Did they have a thing?

Carol sounds like she was a nut.

[quote] Did Rue and Lyman ever work together on AW?

I think when Rue was on AW Lyman was still doing EON.

[quote] Carol was pretty close with Vicki's husband, eh? Did they have a thing?

Al Schultz was the make-up man on The Carol Burnett Show. You're always sweet to the make-up artist otherwise they will make you look like shit on camera.

[quote]Vint says Buzz and Sonia had gone to live with their mother, out of state.

I think you have it mixed up. Buzz and Sonja were only mentioned as "No Buzz and Sonja" and then when Momma get's the note about Bubba, Naomi asks why he'd come here, Iola says "Because a minor on parole cannot leave the state."

Carol's only happy when she's breaking up marriages.

Has it been mentioned how much of a bore Sonja and Buzz were and how hot Bubba was? I dont think thats ever been brought up on DL.

I always wondered why the original NBC first season featured Buzz and Sonja. Either it was the actors or bad writing but they never clicked on the show from the start which helped it get canceled. The syndicated version was good, cheesy fun, specially with Iola and Bubba's arrival.

Mama's Family (with Rue) was cancelled by NBC in 1984

Golden Girls (with Rue) premiered in 1985

Mama's Family was revived for new episodes in 1986, the second year Golden Girls was on.

Got it guys?

Originally Sonja was played like a burn-out/stoner type and then about half-way through the series NBC run they started femming her up and dressing her in pastels and very fem clothes and yet the character was still played as a total slacker/burnout so it didn't make any sense.

I loved original Sonja, she so reminded me of myself at that age, bored, and lazy. I hated when they made her more feminine. They should have kept the character on there. Karin was great.

[quote] So obviously Rue was not even available for the new Mama's Family when it was brought back by another network.

It was never brought back by another network. It was first-run syndication.

R59 why were you bored and lazy?

R60 what does that mean?

^ It was brought back not for network TV (ABC/CBS/NBC) but for airing on local TV stations.

[quote]According to Vicki Carol called her up out of the blue one day at home to pitch a new show with Eunice, Mama, etc., and Vicki told her she had already signed with Joe Hamilton to do a Mama re-do. She said it was obvious Carol was incensed and she hung up and that was the last time they spoke for years

Allegedly this was also what happened between Carroll O'Connor and Sally Struthers when she did the short-lived "Gloria" series: O'Connor was upset with her for signing on to do it without his knowledge and stopped speaking to her. (I can't remember why he felt she should have informed him first.) Don't know if they ever made up or not before his death.

Ugh. She was the worst part of the show, r59.

Did Rue and VIcki! get along well?

Rue said that Lyman’s pussy stunk.

Was Carol mad at the rest of the regulars too?

[quote]Allegedly this was also what happened between Carroll O'Connor and Sally Struthers when she did the short-lived "Gloria" series: O'Connor was upset with her for signing on to do it without his knowledge and stopped speaking to her.

He couldn’t have been too upset. You do know he did the pilot episode of Gloria with her, right?

I wish that show would be rebooted.

Cleary R70 didnt see the Roseanne reboot. Same thing.

Cleary?

Naomi wasn't as stupid in the first episode.

[quote] Carol Burnett was a huge fan of "All My Children".

So was I at the time, the only time I faithfully watched a soap. Dorothy was the star winning at least one Emmy for her work. It's kinda sad she was lured away, I enjoyed her more as Opal Gardner. I think Dorothy made a lot of the choices about her character that made her funnier and more of a standout, too. I remember seeing Opal sleeping and she was sucking her thumb, for example.

Bubba was a stud but Buzz sure had a cute little ass on him.

I think Burnett told Lyman she would pay her 10 times what she was making on AMC to bring opal to mamas family.

My first ejaculation was thinking of Bubba. We had no internet porn back then and fantasy was just about as good as you can get....his package....damn. Between him and Andy on WKRP

"I was peelin' a carrot when the phone rang..."

[quote]Dorothy was the star

Really? REALLY?

[quote]Yeah, Bubba awoken stirrings in me too. I must've been about 15 when he first appeared. I had no idea what it meant to be gay, but I remember thinking how handsome he was and how he filled out those tight jeans so perfectly. I wonder if Allen Kayser(sp?) knows he so many gay admirers back then.

Bubba was so hot and he was on the swim team. They should have had him running around in his Speedo. Even in the Hawaii episode ( where it rained everyday and never had a hour of sunshine) he was wearing board shorts. Keyser does the autograph circuit so I'm sure he gets his share of gays guys getting the DVD signed. He was at Chiller last year and looked great.

Why did DL leave The Nanny? It went downhill without her at the helm.

They spent several passionate nights scissoring and chowing down on each other's entryway carpets, but then Dorothy Lyman decided she was on the way UP and Rue was on the way DOWN.

I think you need to know the time line: The NBC version of "Mama's Family" was canceled in April of 1984. Rue was on that version but Carol Burnett did some episodes, too, as Eunice. But, while they were doing the NBC "Mama's Family", the Burnett/Hamilton marriage was ending and they divorced in May of 84.

Then, Joe Hamilton put together a syndication deal for new episodes of "Mama's Family" through Lorimar in 1986. It's kind of obvious that Carol was pissed/bitter that Vicki Lawrence was "siding" with her ex-husband....which, of course, was ridiculous. It's show business and you go where the work is. Carol was being a bitch about it all and poor Vicki was stuck in the middle between the two people she felt huge gratitude towards, for discovering her and giving her a professional acting career.

I love Carol Burnett but if you really look at some of her actions over the years, she was just as ruthless as the more obvious showbiz types. She snatched Joe Hamilton from his wife and dumped her Broadway career (in the middle of a hit show) to further her TV career. She's not quite the "America's Sweetheart" she likes to project.

^Good post, R83.

R30 so sorry that happened to you