Valley of the Dolls Movie

OP = straight male

You're dead to me, OP.

The theme song was nice.

That's WHY it's so good!

If you don't get it, you don't get it. Don't give it another thought. Seriously.

The book is MUCH better, OP. A great trashy read.

OP, you need to go back to Camp "Camp."

At one time I thought I should check it out, but the abundance of unfunny Helen Lawson posts at DL has turned me against ever watching it.

ITA, r8, the Helen Lawson posts were never funny. But I still love the movie!

Younger gays just aren't into this kind of thing. It's like Judy Garland - a total relic.

Are you serious? The Helen Lawson jokes always cracked me up.

You watched it alone at home, I take it.

The sequel (in name only) is vastly superior--and much more enjoyable.

If you've never seen it, do yourself a favor.

The book sucked, but it was a BEST SELLER. %0D %0D Bette Davis wanted and didn't get the Helen lawson role. Judy Garland was fired from the cast and quickly went into a downward spiral she%0D never came out of. Susan Hayward in her last good role. The movie version made author Jacqueline Susann sick to her stomach. Starlett Sharon Tate was later murdered by the Manson Family.%0D %0D Lots of history, lot of shabby drama. Lot of bad music. CAMP.

I should mention that I'm a lesbian who loves camp!

Younger gays spend most of their time studying nuclear physics and planning fundraisers for the poor. %0D %0D Older gays get drunk on Appletinis and wallow on Mother's lime green shag carpet while singing "It's Impossible" along with Neely O'Hara.

VOTD is the most important book ever written. It, and not the Bible, should be in every hotel room across the world.

one review in the TV Guide was "guilded garbage".....SPOT ON!

GREAT BAD MOVIE!

Who the fuck asked your opinion, OP? Opinions are like assholes and I KNOW ASSHOLES!

"Younger gays spend most of their time studying nuclear physics and planning fundraisers for the poor."%0D %0D In between the meth and barebacking.

R8 please do not let the Helen Lawson jokes stop you from watching VOTD. And r10 if you really think that you are missing a wonderful funny (though not meant to be) movie. Also Patty Duke's performance is what makes the movies so over the top (again though not meant to be).

Campfest? Honey, it's a film version of "Valley of the Dolls."

What were you expecting? Henry V? L'Avventura? Grand Illusion?

I will plant...%0D %0D My own tree...%0D %0D Right up OP's tight ass, that fucking Mary.

I'm not the Butler, Neely.%0D You're not the Breadwinner, either.

Has anyone noticed that at the end, the Garland character's (Patty Duke)understudy who goes on for her is a Barbra Streisand-like dressed actress?

Of course! and that Richard Dreyfuss, was the man talking to Neely about what she was wearing.

"Whatever happened to the lead actress? Barbara Perkins?" She opened a chain of pancake restaurants.

This movie is great because Neely O'Hara is "Fresh as Sprintime!"

You're a Reagan baby, aren't you, OP?

Who are these insufferable straight cunts on the DL lately?

Well I just watched this for the first time, in response to this thread.

I found it pretty boring. Great in certain parts but just not the fabulous mess I was hoping for.

I adore / am obsessed with Showgirls and I like Mommie Dearest.

It could be generational.

you know how Bitchy fags can be.

The theme is pretty good...

R31, I know where you are coming from.%0D %0D I'm only four years older than you, but felt the same way after watching it the first time.%0D %0D Give it another try. Drinking helps.

Read the book then see the movie. Read the book even if you've seen the movie the book is absorbing.

The book is a great page-turner. It's quite a bit different than the movie, and it really holds your interest. The first time I read VOTD years and years ago I stayed up until 5:00 in the morning to finish it because I could not put it down, and I very rarely do that.

OP, the movie is campy and fun. One of the great things about the movie are the clothes, hairstyles, etc. This film is the epitome of the 1960's. There is a scene in which Barbara Perkins models high-end fashions that are the pinnacle of 60's fashion. I love it and I think it%E2%80%99s really a fun movie. I once heard that Sharon Tate's Character is loosely based on Carole Landis I think the Barabara Perkins character is loosely based on Jacqueline Susann herself. I forgot who the other charters are loosely based on. BTW, supposedly Carole Landis and Jacqueline Susann were once lovers when they were young and struggling in their careers. %0D %0D %0D Was actor Paul Burke who played Lyon Burke in the movie gay in real life? Bi? Straight? He was so handsome!%0D %0D Martin Milner who played Mel Anderson was so handsome as well. Is he gay? Bi? Straight? in real life? Has anyone ever heard anything about these two actors?%0D %0D BTW, Lee Grant has kept the same dam hairdo she had in the 60's and 70%E2%80%99s to this very day.%0D

The novel had been scandalous and the film was expected to be a ground-breaker in the realm of frankly adult entertainment. In order to get the joke you have to understand that everyone involved thought that they were doing something bold and daring when all they accomplished was something bland and silly.

It's not surprising that younger viewers don't grasp what an exercise in failed expectations the film is. They grew up watching raunchy material on daytime TV and can't recall an era when "four-letter words" weren't allowed to be spoken or spelled out in respectable media sources.

Barbara Perkins, Julie Garland, Pammy Duke, Shannon Tate, Susan Hayworth...

[quote]One of the great things about the movie are the clothes...

Clothes? Clothes?

R37, repeat after me:

Gowns by Travilla!

"One of the great things about the movie are the clothes... "

One thing are?

Oh dear....

It may work better in a crowd. Try seeing it at one of its many revivals and you'll have a great experience.

It's worth it just for that really long commercial.

I'm gonna heat up the lasagna.

Starts at 4:15 R43.

Thanks R45.

[quote]"Whatever happened to the lead actress? Barbara Perkins?"

Why she's going to be at The Hollywood Show, the biggest autograph show in LA next weekend!

The book was required reading in an English lit class at the University of Mo- Kansas City campus a few years ago.%0D %0D

I met her at the LAGLC when they hosted a fundraiser doing a reading of the script. Mapa played Anne. Vilanche played Jennifer. He-larious. Oh, and Louganis played Neely. Barbara Perkins was simply charming at the reception.

[quote]"guilded garbage"

Unionized landfill supervisors?

[quote]The theme is pretty good...%0D %0D But the rest of the music is intolerable.%0D %0D Sounds more like the 1950s than 19 sixty fucking 7.%0D %0D Bunch of squares made that film.

I've always been more a "The Best of Everything" queen.

I wouldn't pay any attention to that. You know how bitchy fags can be!

Roger Ebert and Russ Myer co-wrote a sequel (or what was supposed to be a sequel) titled "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls."%0D %0D I don't think I have ever met anyone who has viewed this film...anyone here??

[quote]I don't think I have ever met anyone who has viewed this film...anyone here??%0D %0D Yes, they're always running it on some minor movie channel here in England.%0D %0D It's a big bore, maybe slightly hipper in a silly American late 60s way, than VOTDs.%0D %0D There are clips on youtube.

[italic]Beyond[/italic] is camp, but it's self-aware camp. (I think Roger Ebert recalls laughing the whole time he was writing the script.) Tip: Watch it stoned.

Gotta get off, gonna get%0D Have to get off from this ride%0D Gotta get hold, gonna get%0D Need to get hold of my pride%0D %0D When did I get, where did I%0D How was I caught in this game%0D When will I know, where will I%0D How will I think of my name%0D %0D When did I stop feeling sure, feeling safe%0D And start wondering why, wondering why%0D Is this a dream, am I here, where are you%0D What's in back of the sky, why do we cry%0D %0D Gotta get off, gonna get%0D Out of this merry-go-round%0D Gotta get off, gonna get%0D Need to get on where I'm bound%0D %0D When did I get, where did I%0D Why am I lost as a lamb%0D When will I know, where will I%0D How will I learn who I am%0D %0D Is this a dream, am I here, where are you%0D Tell me, when will I know, how will I know%0D When will I know why?

I feel a little top heavy!!!

R57: I love you. My fave part of that number is the double-strand necklace that keeps looping around one, then the other, then both breasts. Thanks for the words!

Oh, and "You're not the breadwinner, either." poster - I love you too! That's my favorite line in the whole movie!

It's PARKINS!!!

Judith, you're thinking of the "It's Impossible" song.

The clothes, makeup and especially the wigs were incredible. VOTD has the most beautiful wigs and hairpieces I have ever seen in a film. I wish that ultra-glam big hair 60s look would come back.

It's fun to go down to the Music Center in downtown LA and grab the handrail on the stairs and utter "Tony!"

The Gillian Girl commercial was maybe my favorite part.

Me, too.

r41 enough with the OH Dear stuff

Love it!!!!!

Barbara PARKINS made her name on the 1960s TV series of Peyton Place. Never liked her much and her career went no where after "Dolls."

Sparkle, Neely! Sparkle!!

Who are are you hiding from Helen? The reviews couldn't have been that bad.

Marry me R44!

See below for the link to Neely Ohara's Wikipedia page. She is the only character from the movies that has one.

The movie is worth watching for the sheer campy awfulness of the "Come Live With Me" duet between Neely and Tony sung at the sanitarium.

When does VOTD "jump the shark" What scene? I want to see it on the big screen.

r74 from the opening LOL

r72%0D %0D Did you even read the entry? Helen Lawson has one as well

R66 enough with the enough with the OH Dear stuff.

I remember being transfixed by the book. The movie was less engrossing. I don't like watching brats (Neeley), but I have no problem reading about them.

More important information and photos at link:

Paul Burke (r.i.p.) was the grandfather of Alia Shawkat, who played Maeby on Arrested Development.

To the poster who said it was a film made by squares, uh, THAT'S what helped turn it into a campfest, dear.

Will someone elaborate about the book. Was it the new "Peyton Place?" Were readers shocked and scandalized?

Was it a hit right out of the gate and did it take time to grow.

In my early obsession with the Guinness Book of World Records I always loved the pic a Jacqueline Susann...

And then would someone talk about the exciting buildup and buzz surrounding the release.

OOOH they're turning it into a major motion picture!!!

She's doin' NUDIES!

r81 at the time it was the most shocking novel.

shocking to whom? it was trash - even as a teenager, i knew it was trash. the book, the movie. at least the movie was funny, unintentional as the humor may have been. parkins was a beautiful girl. remember Judith krantz? big big success at that time too; also wrote trash. whatever happened to her?

[quote]Will someone elaborate about the book. Was it the new "Peyton Place?" Were readers shocked and scandalized?

In "Lovely Me" (the Susann biography), the manuscript had made the rounds of New York - Irving Mansfield was a two-bit press agent and got his wife's book read, partially because her first book (about their poodle) had been a surprisingly good seller and got a lot of goodwill for its light tone. But Valley was an enormous manuscript and people hated it.

Finally some high-up publishing figure brought it home to get his wife's opinion, and supposedly she said the next day "This is terrible. But I couldn't stop reading it all night. You have to buy it."

The book was assigned to Michael Korda, who was a young editor at the time, and according to him he worked on every page with her, getting it into the barely publishable shape it became.

What Susann did - more than the book itself - was create the first modern celebrity novelist, marketing herself on every TV show she could and making personal appearances everywhere. (I loved the fact she showed up at the warehouse when the book arrived to hand out donuts and coffee to the truckers: "C'mon, I'm countin' on you fellas to make this book a success!" She autographed books for them and they loved her.) She was also conscious of her own style, which was pitch-black wiglets, mink coats, Pucci dresses, boots, and later, the ankh.

Back in the 1960s, this was all seen as incomparably vulgar by the New York publishing world, even more vulgar than the book. But it sold millions and millions and millions.

I like you, R86.

The ANKH. Whatever happened to it? Mom and sisters wore that shit out.

Of all the famous dead people I would love to go out and get drunk with, Jackie Susann is at the top of my list. By all accounts, she was a hell of a lot of fun to hang out with.

Thank and I love you R86. I knew it was off topic, but I just love elaborations.

I wonder how many budding authors she created.

Have any of you seen the Michele Lee biopic? Is it any good?

I love the story of the world premiere: It was held aboard the cruise ship M/S [italic]Sapphire,[/italic] (see link) and Fox produced a documentary about the event that featured Tony Scotti burbling the theme song in a gondola. Jackie Susann left the screening in disgust and pronounced the film "a piece of shit" to reporters.

[quote]VOTD has the most beautiful wigs and hairpieces

Yeah, how do you like that? They won't even go down the john.

Here are several photographs taken by Travilla or his partner on that cruise R91.

Try Barbara PARKINS

r93 anymore? What is the website that you found those at?

[quote]The movie is worth watching for the sheer campy awfulness of the "Come Live With Me" duet between Neely and Tony sung at the sanitarium.%0D %0D Oh God, yes!

I've posted this before (given how often this film comes up for discussion here) but one of the funniest things about this movie is how all the styles are frozen in a small block of time while the plot apparently carries on for a decade or more. The rise and fall of the three young women takes place over a decade but the styles and fashions begin in 1966 and end in 1967.

The book took place over a twenty-year period, from 1945 to New Year's Eve, 1965. The movie seemed to take place in the course of one year. I highly recommend reading the book, even if you've seen the movie. The relationships between Anne, Nelly and Jennifer make a lot more sense in the book. In the movie, they're just three random women who seem like acquaintences, but in the book you learn how the three women all met one another and how they all became part of each others' lives.

Yes, r97, but ALL 1960s movies were like that. Take WW2 drama The Americanization of Emily (1964), Julie Andrews with her 60s bouffant do:

I like re-watching Parkins' first encounter with Susan/Helen, when she snarls "I know all about run of the play contracts" and demands a fountain pen "not a lousy ballpoint" - and of course that climax with Barbara rolling in the surf as Dionne sings the song ....

Yes, r93 anymore pictures? Don't you just hate it when someone posts something interesting and than just disappears?

The book is schlock--it's so terrible that it's not even campy fun. The movie is extremely entertaining during the high-pitched scenes of hysteria--it's unthinkable without Duke and Hayward--but deadly dull when it tries to capture "real" life, e.g., anything with Anne Welles. (Welles is the stand-in for the author. Lyon Burke is supposedly David Begelman.)

"This movie is great because Neely O'Hara is "Fresh as Sprintime!" "%0D %0D No no NO. The line was: "Younger than Springtime...and twice as exciting!" Geez, get it right. And use spellcheck.

And I read once, that before the move starting shooting, that Patty Duke and then husband thought the character of Neely would win her a second Oscar.

Has anyone heard anything about Susan Hayward on that set? I haven't heard anything, which is weird because Susan Hayward was a big movie star. %0D %0D The poster that said when the book was first published, it was considered a piece of trash that is correct because I have heard the same thing. I once asked my mother how was the book when it first came out. I remember mother laughing and she said people thought the book was just trash when it first came out and at the same time people thought it was very seedy because the book touched on topics never discussed before. She said if you compare the garbage that is produced now days, that book was just child's play.%0D

It always cracks me up the way they use the word "fag" as if actually saying it and acknowledging that gays exist makes the movie modern and hip. It's almost as if the action stops for that one word.

Someone has to have seen the 1981 tv remake with Lisa Hartman.

Why isn't THAT on YouTube.

[quote]Why isn't THAT on YouTube.

Luck?

For R95 and R101.

Tate in Hayward's Costumes.

[quote]Has anyone heard anything about Susan Hayward on that set?

According to one of Travilla's pattern makers, when Hayward saw the sketches for her costumes, her reply to each one was "It's a dog."

And the rumor that Garland stole her wardrobe from the film is a complete fabrication. Travilla made her a copy the pants suit she wore in later concerts to ease the sting of being fired from the film.

With the funny videos of Sally Kirkland on youtube, I'm surprised no one has done a compilation of her work as Helen Lawson on the 90s soap version

[quote]the "Come Live With Me" duet between Neely and Tony sung at the sanitarium.

I'm with you guys.

I think I had an out-of-body experience the first time I saw that scene. Stunned into another dimension by the sheer awfulness of it.

Also, thanks to this thread, I have had "Come Live With Me"/"It's Impossible" swirling around my brain for the last few days.

Damn - those are some catchy tunes. They're like earwigs. I think Susan Boyle should do a mash-up of them on her next album.

Jazz instrumentalist Dorothy Ashby did a funky cover of "Come Live With Me" in the early '70s.

That was actually very pretty R112.

Do you know what sanitarium it was recorded in?

Thanks r93 but where is the website for these pictures, would love to see more...

There is no website R114.%0D %0D I've been working with the Travilla Estate for the past few years and these are images from their archives.

Thanks r93, any pictures of Patty Duke?

r93????

Who cares what anyone thinks of this film..it's gorgeous trash. Parkins, Duke, Hayworth and Tate were perfect in their respective roles. I first saw this while being babysat by my cousin, it was right after the '72 Munich Olympics massacre and it took my young mind away from that dreadful time. I also had a huge pre-adolescent thing for Martin Milner, a very sympathetic character swept to the side by his out of control pillhead wife (Duke). Lee Grant was her usual cooly smouldering self as Tate's sister-in-law with a secret. %0D %0D The scene with Barabara Parkins walking in the snow after leaving it all behind is one of the more beautiful and poignant moments captured on film. Listen youngins..I was "too young" to (also)love "The Women" way back then, but I did. Forget about when VOTD was made and just roll around in the splendor of it all. They don't make'em like this anymore.

R104, EVERYONE thinks that about a good role before they start the movie.

[quote]Will someone elaborate about the book. Was it the new "Peyton Place?" Were readers shocked and scandalized?

Rent "Isn't She Great". It tells the story of Jacqueline's journey. It's not very good but you'll see what happened and Bette Midler bears as much of a resemblance to Jacqueline Susann as pursed lips do to an asshole, but it is what it is

There really is no good campy movies like this anymore

Anne.. she took the red ones.%0D %0D Jennifer.. she took the blue ones.%0D %0D Neely.. she took the yellow ones.

This is a marriage bed, Lyon.

RE: It always cracks me up the way they use the word "fag" as if actually saying it and acknowledging that gays exist makes the movie modern and hip. It's almost as if the action stops for that one word.%0D %0D Jennifer did not "know better" than to talk that way off set to Neely.

r109 that was a nice picture of Sharon too in your link.

DOLLS ... the instant turn-on!

The nation's most startling and hotly discussed best seller -- now on the screen, with every shock and sensation intact!

Lawson took the yellow pills?%0D %0D Um. No.

" Hello. Lyon Burke's Room"

BUMP

Just saw this again last night, this time with someone else who appreciates camp- as one is meant to watch it.

It really is the most dreadful, incoherent mess. By turns hilarious and boring, and painfully soapy. Plus, it's SO DATED! Is this *really* meant to be the 60s? It's more like the 50s.

And I know we've done her to death, but it really must be said that the only character that is played with any interest is indeed that of Helen Lawson. She should have been in it a lot more, because Patty Duke just overplays it so much she comes off as a ridiculous tomboy.

But she gets just 3 scenes which is a terrible waste of the most believeable and interesting character in the whole campy mess.

The 'sequel' is miles better.

There is no way that Patty Duke comes off as a tomboy in this movie(If you want to see a tomboy go rent her movie BILLIE). In this picture she might be over the top, but for the most part she is glamorous, in some of the best costumes she ever wore in a film.

Sure, Patty Duke may have worn some gorgeous gowns, but did they suit her? Hell no!%0D %0D Remember the long white grown she wore for the confrontation with Helen Lawson? It'd look great on a model, but on a girl as short and chunky as Patty Duke, well, it made her look like a votive candle.%0D

r132=Barbara Parkins.

Patty Duke's Neely O'Hara is not a tomboy, she is a coarse guttersnipe.

but a glamorous one LOL

Come Live With Me. Hmmm..

Remind me to have them play this if I ever slip into a coma. Apparently just hearing it is enough to pull you out of it to sing along ha ha ha.

Rubbish.

BUMP

[quote]At one time I thought I should check it out, but the abundance of unfunny Helen Lawson posts at DL has turned me against ever watching it.

I agree.

One of the great experiences of my youth was getting high on weed (and buzzed on beer)and seeing "Valley of the Dolls" and "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" at a double feature one Saturday night in 1973 (I remember the year, since the event was right after I turned 19). The audience was packed, and I'm guessing 90% was gay or "curious." First Patty Duke and then Ronnie "Z-Man" Barzell. I felt exhausted after it was over.

The book is amazing trash. True story. In grad school, I had a prof who had been nominated for the National Book award. Over coffee after class one day, he told a group of us that his younger sister read the book and then the prof thought "let me see how bad this crap is." He finished it a couple of days later. Read it if you get a chance. Say what you want but Susan knew how to tell a story.

boobies, boobies, boobies...

I've often read that Jacqueline Susann said it had sold more copies than anything since the bible. Was that true?

I eat feces.

It held that record for decades, r141. No fooling.

Oh, to hell with 'em! Let 'em droop.

I'm feeling a little top-heavy.

Actually Valley of the Dolls was assigned reading in a lit course at UMKC (University of Mo Kansas City) a few years ago.

"Was this the original campfest?"

Not the original, but arguably the ultimate.

Patty Duke was CBS top choice for the role of Laura Avery on Knots Landing.

I'll Plant! My! Own! Tree! And! Make! It! Grow!

Yes, "You Can Lead a Horticulture but You Can't Make Her Drink" was indeed my favorite "Helen Lawson Show."

Judy Garland VOTD wardrobe test.

[quote] What Susann did - more than the book itself - was create the first modern celebrity novelist

Excuse us?

Agree that the Helen Lawson jokes, which were funny for five minutes, are the most tired and stale thing still on Datalounge.

The jokes aren't stale. That's my pussy.

I would have loved for that to have happened r148

RE :150 Sad to see that - Judy looked like she could hardly stand on her own So wobbly. Now I get the idea why she couldn't have done the role. If they saved the wardrobe test, is it possible there is some footage of her at all, playing the part ? Would be facinating to see.

?Barbara PARKINS made her name on the 1960s TV series of Peyton Place. Never liked her much and her career went no where after "Dolls.""

By the way, whatever happened to the elusive Stephen Douglass (who played Steven Cord in Peyton Place)?? Information on him is virtually nil on the internet. No lead on where he came from and where he's gone.

Ted Casablanca is NOT a fag... and I'm the dame who can prove it.

[quote]Agree that the Helen Lawson jokes, which were funny for five minutes, are the most tired and stale thing still on Datalounge.

AGREE!!!

R155- I don't think they got around to filming. First official day of shooting, Judy was discovered drunk and passed out on a pool table with her dress hiked up above her head. There were also rumors that, after she was officially fired, she took a dump in her dressing room waste basket.

not true r159 Judy would not come out of her dressing room until the director came and got her and he refused. This continued for a few days and then she was fired.

OP, I didn't really "get" the movie the first time I saw it but love it now.

I think the first time I was too young to appreciate camp. I'd read the book at about age 13 (probably a telling sign for things to come). When I saw the movie, I was looking at it in terms of how accurate an adaptation it was of the novel (not very) and if it stood on its own as a good movie (not really).

I was a little confused after seeing it, it was so strange. It wasn't until later I started appreciating the unintentional humor of the film.

They filmed bits of the dressing room scene where Helen is first introduced, but nothing more except for wardrobe tests.

And it wasn't that Garland wouldn't come out of her dressing room until the director came and got her, but that they didn't film her scenes until later in the day and she was kept waiting around and during that time would drink and take pills to calm her nerves.

Also, Garland didn't steal her sequined paisley pantsuit from the film, but the studio gave it to her as well as paying her full salary. She then ordered three more suits in different colors from Travilla for her stage concerts.

Well the sequel, besides the campness and one of the most shocking murders I have ever seen on celluloid,and I think which should be recreated in a horror movie, you boys know the one, has considerably better music than the first movie. The real tragedy of course was the subsequent death of Sharon Tate. It is impossible to know how her career would have progressed through the seventies. If she wasn't murdered at the time and her marriage to Polanski remained intact, just what influence could she have exerted on popular culture in the ensuing decade is something to ponder about?

{RE 159} A dump....in her dressing room waste basket ? Horrible. I always wait till I sing at a funeral to do that.

Peter Breck was too ill to make a cameo with the remaining cast. Sadly, he died the 6th.

I've often read that Jacqueline Susann said it had sold more copies than anything since the bible.

Was that true?

This was THE dirty book when it came out. Someone lent my mom a copy and I read it when she wasn't around, usually quite late at night. It was quite the status symbol at school to have read it.

Is it trash? Very much so but compelling trash. It was quite the pop phenomenon, much the way the Harry Potter books are now.

The wig-flushing scene in the book is even better than the movie:

‘Now, out of my way, has-been. You may have no place to go, but I got a guy out there waiting for me.’

‘Guy!’ Neely laughed derisively. ‘You call that a guy? But maybe you better not keep him waiting at that, because from here on in all you’ll be able to get is a fag to take you out – that is, if you pay the tab.’

‘You should know all about that! You were married to one,’ Helen snapped. ‘Christ, you couldn’t even hold your faggot. Not even with twins as a bargaining point. Hey – are they faggots too?’ She started to leave, but Neely blocked her way.

‘What did you say about my children?’ Neely’s voice was quivering.

‘What’s wrong with having little twin faggots? I hear they’re very good to their mothers. Now out of my way . . .’ She shoved past Neely and headed for the door.

‘No you don’t, you old bag!’ Neely shouted. She leaped after Helen and grabbed her by the hair. Helen pulled away, but Neely held fast.

Suddenly Neely let out a gasp of amazement and stood staring at the thing in her hands. At the same time Helen’s hands flew to her head in horror.

‘A wig!’ Neely yelled, holding the long black hair up for Anne to see. ‘By God, her hair’s as phony as she is!’

Helen reached out for her wig, but Neely jumped back. ‘Give me back my hair, you little bitch,’ Helen yelled. ‘It cost me three hundred bucks!’

Neely put it on and danced around the room. ‘Hey! Dig me as a brunette!’

Enjoy!

[quote]they didn't film her scenes until later in the day and she was kept waiting around and during that time would drink and take pills to calm her nerves.

That is the first time I have ever heard a story about Judy being kept waiting. She was notorious on film sets and concert stages for keeping everyone else waiting.

bump

Was Judy really THAT messed up, on the set ? To the point she 'took a dump' in the waste basket. Just logicistically, that couldnt have been easy.Do you think after she walked off the set, the poor cleaner came in, swept up, then looked in the wastebasket, and said " What a dump"

Doubt she took a dump the last couple years of her life. She died on the commode from straining to go #2, due to severe constipation.

Susan Hayward was responsible for the studio paying Judy Garland, she would not be a replacement otherwise.

Wasn't Judy fully clothed when she died on the crapper? She just sat down and died, I believe.

After seeing those wardrobe tests with poor, wobbly, Judy, you can see she couldn't do it. And hard to believe she was only 45 - she looks 60-65. Sad.

Patty sings the theme instead of Dionne.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that with a good vocal coach, Duke could probably have done her own singing in the movie.

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This is playing at Lincoln Center on Saturday night? Who here is going?

R177 Patty's singing there is absolutely dreadful. She sounds like she's had a few too many dolls.

OK, first off, Judy defecating in the trash pail happened during the filming of "I Could Go On SInging".

The films director, Ronald Neames I think, was very pleased when that film was in the can and he could say goodbye to Judy.

To wich Judy said "Your gonna miss me when I'm gone!"

Second, she was indeed kept waiting on the set of Valley for many hours so she occupied her time drinking Blue Nun wine and hanging out in her dressing room with friends and or hangers on. By the time the director got around to her scenes she was shot.

Every actress interviewed from that film has commented on how cruel the director was to just about everyone.

R177 has obviously never seen "Billie."

I'm not even going to read any of the comments. I'm just going to watch the movie WHICH, unfortunately, is not 10 minutes long... though it should be.

I better go heat up the lasagna...

Reading parts of this thread, especially Patty singing the theme song over a montage of stills, reminds me of what a marvelous movie this is. There is so much to enjoy from the first scene to the last.

I thought Judy pissed in the trash can, not shit.

R185 LOL!!!!

I watch Valley of the Dolls at least once a year, twice if someone I know hasn't seen it, and it never fails to make me laugh out loud.

Patty should have been nominated for an Oscar ;-)

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In the nightclub scene, when eye-candy Tony Polar sings, [italic]"Love is a flower that lives for an hour and withers and dies. Where is the prize? Forgive me if I deride love but, Darling, I've tried love, and so I say... come live with me!"[/italic] my balls shrivel up and try to escape back inside my body. Then I feel clammy all over.

Too much wicker, Rose!

Boobies, Boobies, Boobies!

Judy Garland nicknamed Blue Nun wine "the Blue Lady".

".....not until he ties a can to that little broad's tail!"

If Valley was a hit w/ critics and Patty Duke's performance was critically acclaimed, what kind of career would she have had?

Blue Nun wine seemed to be the choice of a lot of people back then when they wanted something to just swill down like it was water. I've read bios of celebrities from that era, and Blue Nun comes up sometimes.

I don't think I've ever seen Blue Nun wine for sale, I don't know if it's still around.

[quote] Patty Duke was practically screaming all her lines.

One of my movie guides says it's one the screechiest performances ever committed to celluloid.

I dont get it as well. I dated a guy who LOVED it and would watch it several times a year. It's not a horrible movie, but it certainly doesn't merit repeated viewings.

[quote] If Valley was a hit w/ critics and Patty Duke's performance was critically acclaimed, what kind of career would she have had?

I think her mental health problems would have derailed a top flight career for many years.

I think while VotD is a campfest, it needs to be remade by HBO or some other outfit that can do it justice.

It should be done as a period piece as in the book. Is Glenn Close too old to play Helen Lawson?

Let's cast it.

Sally Kirkland for Helen Lawson!

[quote]OK, first off, Judy defecating in the trash pail happened during the filming of "I Could Go On SInging".

It actually happened during the filming of many of her films, beginning with "Pigskin Parade" and continuing through "The Wizard of Oz," "the Clock," "Summer Stock," and many others. It was a Judy garland trademark. "Let me go leave Busby one of my little 'gifts' in his office," she would say during a break from shooting "Babes in Arms."

I think Scorcese should direct the remake and, as R201 noted, it should be done as a period piece.

Wasn't sixty-five episodes enough R202?

Er...Miss Kirkland.

La LuPone for Helen Lawson!

Patty Duke for Lawson. It almost ruined her career, maybe it could revive her career ;-)

The novel VALLEY OF THE DOLLS was great trash, compulsively readable. Susann had worked at the margins of show business for decades, and knew what she was writing about. People felt they were getting the inside dope (no pun intended) about success in show business. As ridiculous as this sounds, the novel has the confident air of someone who knows what she's writing about.

Everyone thought the way Patty Duke looked in VALLEY was the best she had ever looked, especially after her cute-but-unglamorous appearance in everything she had done up to that time.

Someone asked about Martin Milner and Paul Burke. Burke had come off of NAKED CITY, one of the best (and best written) series to ever appear on TV. He got an Emmy nomination in '62 for playing a young cop who was smart and sensitive, a 'new generation' of college-educated policemen. After VALLEY he had another successful TV series with TWELVE O'CLOCK HIGH, a WWII story that had been a hit play on Broadway and then a big movie starring Gregory Peck. I always thought he was a stiff in VALLEY, whereas in NAKED CITY he manages to be very likable and expressive without overdoing it. It's too bad he was never as good again.

Martin Milner was a kid actor on Broadway and in movies and can be seen as an adolescent in LIFE WITH FATHER with William Powell and Irene Dunne. Once he was fully grown he played male wallflowers in '50s movies, the kind who get left behind for sexier stars. He was the prototypical 'nice guy,' which he played again in another literate ground-breaking series, ROUTE 66, where he took a backseat to sexy, volatile George Maharis, then sexy, soft-spoken Glenn Corbett. Milner looked like an archetypical early '60s guy, a hazel-eyed strawberry blond who looked good in white jeans. He was cute, never sexy, though his character often resorts to violence, vigorously spanking both kids and women. Both NAKED CITY and ROUTE 66 can be enjoyed (and they should be, they were great series) on Me-TV. After VALLEY, Milner did the successful ADAM-12 TV series in the '70s where he once again played second fiddle to sexier co-stars. He was always competent and professional, but too bland to be a real star.

Jacqueline Susann herself had a life that was not unlike Valley of the Dolls. I highly recommend the Susann bio "Lovely Me" by the late Barbara Seaman, a very well-written account of Jackie's very eventful life.

It's a shame Jacqueline Susann died at a relatively young age; I can only imagine the kind of books she would have written in the latter half of the 70s and into the 80s.

I thought The Love Machine was better written than VOTD and the story was just as interesting.

"It's a shame Jacqueline Susann died at a relatively young age; I can only imagine the kind of books she would have written in the latter half of the 70s and into the 80s."

Other than perhaps more explicit descriptions in the sex scenes, I imagine they would have been the exact same kind of books she was writing in the '60s and early '70s. Do you see there having been an artistic progression in her work toward something else?

For maximum pleasure, VOTD should be read when you're 12 or 13--a time when you have a child's vision of adulthood garnered from old movies and no critical sensibility whatsoever.

If you read it later, you won't be able to overlook the silliness and the awful writing.

If this camp fest is to be remade, Baz Luhrmann MUST turn it into one of his craptatious monstrosities.

If Jacqueline Susann had lived she would have turned into something like this:

David Lynch for a remake

Can a paying member please post this link as a new thread. Artist's birthday and datalounge's feedback would be fun. Long time readers and posters, but 18 bucks too much just now.

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bump for Patty Duke becoming a grandmother again

Yeah, I never got it either. I did, on the other hand, LOVE Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.

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Forgive me for speaking ill of tbe dead, but Jacqueline Susann resembled an anorexic man in drag. Picture Mick Jagger in mod 1960's clothes. With his current face.

Yes, Jacqueline Susann was a rather hard-looking woman and there was a certain masculine quality to her appearance. Truman Capote famously called her "a truck driver in drag" on the Tonight Show, which were pretty strong words for the time.

Dolores Gray looked like Susann.

OP has no understanding and appreciation for camp. Some gay men don't and I find it puzzling. One the best things about being gay is the appreciation of camp.

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Please, i need you to tell me if there is any lesbianism in this movie. Have you also read the book? Any lesbian themes in it?

Yes, Jennifer hooks up with a rich girlfriend at school.

Thanks for answering 231.Kisses~!~

You're welcome. The affair doesn't end well, sorry to say!

It's ok. I can get it...Ty again!

I like the description of Susan Hayward's bent stance in the I'll Plant My Own Tree song, as if she is in two different zip codes.

[quote]Patty Duke was practically screaming all her lines.

SO?

SHE'S NEELY O'HARA!

I watched the film for the first time just now and I can't say that I liked it that much. As a film it wasn't very good. The story probably works better in the book but I haven't read it so I don't know. I really couldn't even see the film as camp. The film wasn't bad enough to be supertrashy, it was just mediocre.

It made me wonder that had there been real widespread gay entertainment at the time would gay men have cared that much about women's stuff, like this film. I'm 42 so sure I've had my fair share of living in the shadows of traditional roles of men and women, and having many times identify with women in films and books. I even used to read fucking Harlequin books when I was a teen. But now... hmm, I didn't feel for those bitches at all. All the fag-slurs thrown around in the film didn't make me smile at all.

I did manage to watch the film completely without fast forwarding so in that sense I was entertained. But really the film is not something I wish to see again.

I haven't seen this one. However, i have seen 'Behind the Valley of the Dolls', which i suspect is a far better movie than 'Valley of the Dolls'.

At least, i can assure you that it has a great soundtrack and a soft, sexy, feminine lesbian scene. From what i understand 'Valley of the Dolls' definitely lack that. Judy Garland considered the script very dirty and insulting. Well, i suspect, she was right.

[quote]everyone involved thought that they were doing something bold and daring when all they accomplished was something bland and silly.

Bingo.

The mid/late sixties was such a rapidly changing era, that from the time the movie was filmed to the time it was released, expressions and shock value had left everyone behind.

R238 Do you mean BEYOND the Valley of the Dolls?

Sharon as Jennifer's line, while on the phone with her mother: "I know all I have is a body..." is heart wrenching in hindsight.

So lovely, such a terrible actress.

Remake would be dreadful and would make 3 dollars. But re-casting it is fun:

Anne Wells - Why AnnE of course

Neely O'Hara - Lilo (let's keep the role trashy and cast a troubled actress again)

Jenniffer North - Amanda Seyfried (I know, she already played Linda Lovelace, but hey...)

The hot boyfriend who goes crazy - Zac Efron

Neely's "fag" husband - Matt Bomer

Assorted choreographers/directors/replaced leads - Just get guys & gals from "Glee"

Helen Lawson - M or Cher

To avoid that whole powder room scene, I wonder why Helen Lawson didn't just dye her hair rather than wear a wig?

"a latent homosexual!"

"who the hell are you?"

"where are you?"

"NEELY O'HARA!"

such great dialogue...

"I'll go out the way I came in!"

The first great gay camp movie...

with Judith Lowry (look her up) at the end!

Yes, Barbara WAS beautiful. You gotta love Patty Duke's wacko performance.

Remake please! I'd love to see Cher doing "I'll Plant My Own Tree".

[quote]R243

You're suppose to find out that the aging Helen Lawson is both losing her (singing) voice & also her hair, that she's damn near bald. In the 1967 film, the (white) wig that Susan Hayward wears doesn't let you know that. When the story was remade around '81 with Jean Simmons as Lawson, you see that she is near bald once Neely tears off the wig.

OP, I don't have time for your nonsense. Now get out of my way, I've got a man waiting for me

"that's a switch from the fags you're usually with !"

Art films? Nudies! That's all they are. Nudies!

r248 - At least I never had to MARRY one!

"you take that back..............!!"

"Oh my God.....it's a wig. Her hair's as phony as she is !!"

[wraps scarf around head and walks out of bathroom in a dignified manner] *sniff*

Recognize where I'm standing ?

Anne's home (wasn't it her aunt's?)

[quote]To avoid that whole powder room scene, I wonder why Helen Lawson didn't just dye her hair rather than wear a wig?

If I recall correctly, in the book Helen had to wear a wig because her hair fell out after having it dyed for the show whose opening night they were celebrating. The added indignity of losing her hair betokens advancing age and misfortune for Lawson. Her new star vehicle isn't much good. The plot is trite, the tunes are stale, and the star is simply too old and plain to play a romantic leading lady any more. This is actually a cruelly accurate takeoff on Ethel Merman's near-flop, Happy Hunting, from 1956.

Yes, Anne's home. In the opening scene she was living there with her widowed mother & (her) Aunt Amy (the great Judith Lowry).

At the film's end she goes back there to live with Aunt Amy; Anne' mother dies halfway through the movie.

Kelt, you're cute

Is there actually a Lawrenceville, Massachusetts?

Susann must've really despised Merman once they broke off their relationship.

No Lawrenceville, MA. The house is in Redding, Connecticut about 10 minutes off of Merritt Parkway.

To get the full camp experience it's best to see this in a movie theater, preferably with a gay crowd.

R240, it was a typo. I know. Sorry Roger!

Probably better in a theater than on tv. Still it's not camp in the "atrocious script and budget" sense of "Plan 9 from Outer Space". Nor does it have a hammy star and the "Joan Crawford as Groucho Marx in drag" hair and makeup of "Mommie Dearest". Not a campfest in every scene and more turgid soap opera than anything else.

I read the book as a teenager along with some other sordid fiction"from earlier eras like "Tropic of Cancer". Not enough sex in any of it. Just seemed boring. I think the book and movie were products of their time. The movie would have been contemporary with "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" which obviously had better material and casting. But jut imagine if Patty Duke in her pre-Lithium days had the unsympathetic "slim hipped" role that went to Sandy Dennis or the "Mommie Dearest" Dunaway had Martha, then that film would have been camp for the ages.

[quote]In the 1967 film, the (white) wig that Susan Hayward wears doesn't let you know that.

Not only that, it is actually a luscious and coiffed silver mop - maybe not for 60's standards when everything had to be teased to within an inch of the ceiling.

Still, it almost gave me the impression that Miss Hayward did not want to ugly herself for the role.

Kelt you ARE cute.

And in the shallowest possible of ways, I take back any criticism I directed your way in any other threads.

Call me.

[quote]The house is in Redding, Connecticut about 10 minutes off of Merritt Parkway.

Oh my god, I have to go find it!

Who has actually seen the Jean Simmons version? Anything interesting to remark?

[quote]R267

I remember it fairly well. Didn't care for it, not compared to the 1967 version. Catherine Hicks as 'Anne Welles'; Yuck. Hicks' talents belong strictly on the Christian Broadcasting Network. Bert Convy as doomed singer Tony Pilar & David Birney as male lead Lyon Burke ? Lisa Hartman was cast as Neely; all early 80s glam punk rock. Painful viewing. In the infamous scene where Helen Lawson & Neely have a fight, it took place just offstage. Sizing up Neely's get-up for an awards show, Helen Lawson bellows with disgust, "you look like a porcupine in heat."

in the book Lawson is wearing the wig because its been falling out because she has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy

Susan Hayward did not want to be seen as a balding chemo therapy patient.

Substituting it with a full head of thick white hair is so, so lousy.

[quote]R271

Agreed. Doing the full head of white hair only prompted people to ponder why she didn't just 'color' it.

Wonder if Judy was up for the bald look? She had a sense of humor but who knows if she would have taken it this far.

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I agree with the person who said the book is best read when you are younger. I read it as a somewhat naïve 15 year old back in the 80's and thought it was hot stuff. I then found my mom's copies of 'The Love Machine' and 'Once Is Enough' and snuck them out and read them. I still am surprised my mom had those books, I came from a very strict Christian home and I have never seen my mom read anything more racy than a Danielle Steele or Nicholas Sparks book.

Re: Neely's surprise at Helen's hair being a wig... wasn't it somewhat common for women of middle age or older to be wearing wigs then? And even sometimes younger women?

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[quote]R278

Parkins & Tate, in particular used 'falls' in VALLEY OF THE DOLLS.

It's pretty obvious that Duke herself had a hairpiece on while pulling off Helen's wig. "It's a wig!"

Four words = "Come live with me"

Here's Patty Duke in her dress for the scene where she sings COME LIVE WITH ME at the 'sanitarium' and the singing by Neeley brings the debilitated Tony briefing back to his (partial) senses.

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Rare behind the scenes candid of Patty Duke, Mark Robson, Lee Grant, David Weisbart, Jackie Susann & Barbara Parkins from April 1967.

Barbara Parkins, David Weisbart, director, Jacqueline Susann, Lee Grant, Mark Robson, Patty Duke, producer, Valley of the Dolls, visitor, ...

[quote]The movie was terrible, but the costumes, makeup and wigs were utterly fabulous. I love that 60s glam look.

You find this look a little contrived do you ?

Yeah, it is just a little

It's been years since I read the book, but I thought Anne was supposed to be a cool blonde and Jennifer North was supposed to be very large breasted. Bad casting on both parts.

I just watched this and oh my god.

It's an AMAZING piece of shit!

The music is completely mad. That old woman singing this awful, awful epic anthem wannabe about planting her own tree - Jesus, the second-hand embarrassment is killing me.

So glad I watched it!

Sharon Tate could not act.

[quote]Sharon Tate could not act.

She was a mediocre actress who was very good at playing a very bad actress in this movie.

It's iconic, cf, Showgirls.

I was in 4th or 5th grade when the movie came out and had no awareness of it. The talk of the boy's side of the playground was Berserk with Joan Crawford 'cause people got impaled and sawed in half and stuff and it was rated M.

I love the 'Come Live With Me" song. It's an archetypal, Vegas-y, Peter-Lemon-mood-ring, suave, polyester-slacked icon... with hair that doesn't move.

[quote]The talk of the boy's side of the playground was Berserk with Joan Crawford 'cause people got impaled and sawed in half and stuff and it was rated M.

What school did you go to where boys talked about Joan Crawford movies?

sharon tate was breathtakingly beautiful... so sad.....

i always wondered what are we the viewer supposed to think of "what happened to neely o'hara?" i mean the last we see of her is on her knees in a alley crying about her life... did she become a homeless lady? did she become a permanent alcoholic and confined in a mental place forever? i've always wondered about her character and how she ended up?

was she just screwed up for that 1 night and then got sober the next day and try to rebuild her career yet again?...

[quote]was she just screwed up for that 1 night and then got sober the next day and try to rebuild her career yet again?...

If she's worthy of the name O'Hara, that's exactly what she did.

R287 in the book which is quite a bit different, she went away for awhile, got sobered up, went back out on the concert circuit and had another comeback although there were hints that her bad behaviors were returning. In the book, Anne marries Lyon and they have a child. He continues to fuck around on her and she slowly begins to depend on the red dolls to help her sleep at night. The last line of the novel has Anne taking two pills instead of one after overhearing Lyon in the bedroom with his latest conquest. The Lyon's are celebrating NY Eve with a big party in their apartment. On her way to her own bedroom, Anne catches Lyon making out with s one young starlet in another bedroom. Lyon is not aware that his wife is outside the door. Apparently Jacqueline Susann hated all the changes to her novel for the screen and walked out of the premiere.

Who would remember Jacqueline Susann or her books without this movie?

There was a lit course at University of Missouri Kansas City and Valley of the Dolls was assigned reading as part of the pop culture track.

Three of Susann's novels ( Valley of the Dolls, The Love Machine and Once is Not Enough ) got paperback reprints about 10 years ago from Grove Press.

It's really odd and unpredictable the things that people are still enjoying and talking about 45 years later that have nothing to do with quality or relevance! Still, you gotta admit....We're still talking about it!

My best friend told me about finding a dogeared copy of VOTD at a beach rental in Florida one summer when he went on vacation with his parents -- he ended up reading it cover to cover.

One thing that's been proved over and over about the book is that it's not very good, but it [italic]is[/italic] compulsively readable.

I've never seen the movie, but the preview / trailer for Valley of the Dolls on iTunes is hilarious.

[quote]Still, you gotta admit....We're still talking about it!

We're still talking about the Titanic and the Hindenburg too.

Kisses, Doll(s)!

I'd rather talk about this film than some of the inexplicably Oscar-winning movies of the same era Hollywood wants us to talk about.

" WITH THAT LITTLE WHORE??!"

[quote]What school did you go to where boys talked about Joan Crawford movies?

Funny you should mention that ... a former bf found it quite something that back when "I, Claudius" was first run on Sunday nights on Masterpiece Theatre, several of us used to dissect the episode Monday morning on the school bus. One fellow was outraged that they didn't cast HIM as Livia!

(Private school)

I would have LOVED going to a school where Joan Crawford movies were discussed.

[quote]" WITH THAT LITTLE WHORE??!"

That little whore makes me feel 10 feet tall !!

Did that school have Red Weirdos in the vending machines?

But of course, R303! No wire hangers in the cloak room though...

Of course the best part is the fight in the ladies room between Helen Lawson (HAYWARD) & Neely O'Hara (DUKE).

Patty Duke later recalled that on the day they filmed that scene (see attached) that anyone who had any connection with the film as well as FOX Studios was present.

"Now you get outta my way; I got a MAN waiting for me !"

"That's a switch from the fags you're usually stuck with........."

R263 No. In the book Helen was living with husband #100 on an island somewhere and, when she had her hair dyed her traditional jet black it fell off and she wore a wig until it grew back. She was not undergoing chemo.

[quote]I would have LOVED going to a school where Joan Crawford movies were discussed.

How much seed money would we need for a DL Film School?

Well, I teach in which students are required to watch Mildred Pierce, Mommie Dearest, and Die, Mommie, Die! among others.

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