The Gilded Age Series 2 Part II

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Previous thread.

Posting this reply from another poster that closed the first thread.

[quote]Did I miss it in the show - how much money did Oscar lose since it was most of Agnes's money?

[quote]How much money would Agnes have actually had to live and partake in society as she did? As with Austen novels, could we assume she was invested in the equivalent of 4 or 5 percents (Georgiana's £30K would have generated £1200-1500 annual income - compared to Bingley's £5000/year).

[quote]According to United States Census data, between 1880 and 1890, the average annual wage for an industrial worker rose from $380 to $564. So, Agnes must have been paying her staff at least that much - her butler was excited, but not in utter amazement at the $100 he was offered to help at the Russell party. $3000-4000 (chef, maid, butler, clock guy, younger maid, ladies maid).

[quote]Agnes must have had something in the neighborhood of $200-300K earning $8-12K/year to live like that?

What amazes me about the situation of Agnes and the like is that so many of their men would actually be working as bankers or lawyers to probably cover most of the staff overhead. Very much different compared to their noble counterparts in Europe. The fact that Oscar’ some doest appear to do much of any real work is puzzling. How did he fill his time? He’s even admitted that his family’s wealth is small, outside of the value of their home.

Oscar really is a complete failure. But the actor is so lovable that I felt bad for him after he was conned.

So, beyond the foolish investment, why wasn’tOscar generating wealth?

maybe the twist is agnes courts larry as she now needs new money to save face. and we know Larry is into older women.

[quote] The fact that Oscar’ some doest appear to do much of any real work is puzzling.

You're telling us it's puzzling!

Care to try again?

Sorry for my typos. On my phone. I mean it’s odd that Oscar doesn’t seem to work. All the men on the show have jobs. Even Larry took up a trade. Hit cousin, Charles Fane is also employed. No men sit at home spending their family money besides Oscar.

Just odd that he’s allowed to live like that.

I thought at some point Oscar said (or somehow we were told) that he works in "finance"... i.e. a banker?

He is a banker. His family owns part or all of a bank. He talked about it in S1, when he had dinner with the Russells the first time. (Maybe the only time.)

R9 yes. so if he is a banker, the family cannot be "completely broke", right?

R10 that's what I thought, so in theory they have an income stream to keep them in servants and bustles. But it's Fellowes. He is notorious for making shit up or ignoring his own writing. Minor, but indicative, Cora Crawley in Downton didn't originally have a mother in New York... she referred to an Aunt. By the time Shirl arrived it was a mother and she was long established in both New York and Newport. But la la la...

I agree r11. I think there is something just kind of lazy about Fellowes. There is a story buried in the whole thing with the Duke of Buckingham, the difference between the American rich and the English aristocracy. It has to do with security. A duke is a duke is a duke, rich or poor, intelligent or stupid, good or bad. American "aristocrats" are so much more nervous, worried constantly about who is ahead and who is behind and who is rich and who isn't and who is accepted and who isn't.

In that sense, I'm not sure they are quite getting Mrs. Astor right, although I like her as a character and actress in this. But I think the Astors might have been one of the very few who didn't have to constantly look over their shoulders. They are putting her kind of on a level with Bertha Russell and Aunt Agnes, and I don't think she was. I suspect she was more of a prize, like a Queen, than somebody who had to play the game the way other ladies had to. The invitation to join Mrs. Astor's 400 was the ultimate prize. She wasn't some high end movie star competing for a prize, she was more like the Oscar itself.

r12, if you read about the real Caroline Astor, you'll find your suppositions are wrong: she was actually a deeply insecure woman.

She was the youngest spoiled child of one of the most socially unimpeachable families in old New York, the Schermerhorns, and she married one of the richest men in the city to advance herself. But he did not love her, and they had to spend a long time together until she produced the much-longed for male heir (she had four daughters before she had John Jacob Astor IV). While trying to prepare one of her daughters for marriage, she enlisted the aid of a relative, a not-that-wealthy member of an old Southern family, Ward McAllister, who was well versed in social etiquette, and the found they both had a mutual obsession with breeding and manners and with a disdain for new money (whom they thought had neither). They became obsessed with forming a kind of social barrier to the nouveaux riches. So they first formed the idea of the Society of the Patriarchs, which would hold exclusive balls and parties with the intent of keeping out the new money. In the meantime, since she had finally produced the longdesired heir, her husband William Backhouse Astor would have nothing to do with her, and spent almost all of his time away from their houses on his yacht (which was then the largest in the world) entertaining his parade of mistresses. (He actually was often repelled by his wife's social snobbery--the story goes that when they first married, she apprently told him he would have to refer to himself from then on as "Mr. William B. Astor" instead of "Mr. William Backhourse Astor" because "backhourse" sounded too much like "outhouse"--that's almost certainly apocryphal, but it does say something about their relations.)

Mrs. Astor's snobbery was a refuge from her unhappy marriage. She actually had a kind of genius for it, and very wisely intuited at some point that keeping out some of the new money families (like the Vanderbilts) would be a losing battle because everyone liked them so much because they were so social and spent money on their friends and entertainments so lavishly. Eventually, after her husband died and she felt betrayed by Ward McAllister (who wrote a tell-all about high society), she still gave grand parties but would only come to the beginning of them, retreating upstairs while her married daughters continued the work of hosting. Eventually people stopped coming, and in her last six months she gave her only interview to the press where she bitterly complained about how much high society had changed since she ruled the roost.

So no, she was neither a confident person nor one who did not look over her shoulder. She was an insecure and snobbish bully.

Part of her genius

Like Meghan, r13?

So Maude Beaton was a fraud. I didn’t see that one coming actually.

That is very interesting r13. I still resent it and renounce it, but you do seem to have the facts.

Is Alarm Clock Jack up?

Is he up what?

Up for some fun!

Really enjoyed the last episode. I suspected Oscar was being scammed, but I didn't think Maud would be in on it.

Mrs Astor fucked around and found out

How though, R21? Didn’t she beat Bertha by getting the Duke to come early as her guest?

[quote]one of the founders of their family banking business, the United Manhattan Trust, established in 1797.

Agnes's husband, Arnold van Rhijn, was the son or grandson.

[quote]so many of their men would actually be working as bankers or lawyers to probably cover most of the staff overhead. Very much different compared to their noble counterparts in Europe.

One distinction is that "working" is how they all made their money, rather than inheriting land from which they earned money. Bingley's sisters wanted him to buy an estate from which he could earn an income from tenant farmers and such. The nobility never worked much beyond being landlords.

R23 that’s simply not true. The old guard in NYC were all asset rich or cash rich folks. Most of their money came from their inheritance, not via work. That’s why there was a clash between the working new class and the old money crowd.

[quote][R23] that’s simply not true. The old guard in NYC were all asset rich or cash rich folks. Most of their money came from their inheritance, not via work. That’s why there was a clash between the working new class and the old money crowd.

Let me clarify my comment. I'm not saying that they all continued to work. I'm saying that the money was all originally made by entrepreneurs who worked to make their fortunes, unlike the nobility. Many of the fortunes were based on going concerns.

My predictions for the finale:

- Bertha will somehow get one over on Mrs Astor AND Mrs Winterton (although it would be more interesting if it were the other way around)

- Ada's late husband will have conveniently left her pots of money

- Oscar, unaware of this windfall, will attempt to throw himself off the Brooklyn Bridge. Marian (or possibly John) will stop him

- The plans for Miss Garnet's school will be scuppered

- Peggy will get together with Fortune

- Marian will call off the engagement to Dashiell

Maybe Alarm Clock boy will make a million from his invention and save Baranski from ruin out of gratitude for her donation towards his patent.

Streep daughter 3 needs to fuck the neighbour son already.

I hope there is a third season, if only to continue sharing our thoughts on this weird and wonderfully irritating show.

R26 excellent guesses and I agree. I think the cousin and her husband will help Oscar. Marian and the Russell’s son will definitely end of together.

Alarm Clock Boy

I would like to see his hole.

The fraus at Reddit, who sound not dissimilar to some of you, at various points thought or think:

Maud was a lesbian who was going to join Oscar in a lavender marriage.

Maud was not in on the fraud.

Alarm Clock Jack will give Agnes the money she needs because she gave him five bucks for his patent application.

Agnes' five bucks makes her an investor in Alarm Clock Jack's future... which has grown from having patented a part that would be used in manufacture to Alarm Clock Jack's proto-Apple domestic alarm clock manufacturing juggernaut.

Alarm Clock Jack will be so rich by S3 he'll be marrying Gladys Russell, much to Bertha's consternation

But he better get making those billions because Bertha is also going to sell Gladys to the Duke of Buckingham by the end of the next and last episode of the series, if he sits in her box at the opera.

Anyway Alarm Clock Jack doesn't matter because Larry and Marian are going to fall in love so deeply by the end of the next and last episode that George Russell, feeling the love, will give Agnes all the money she needs. Because distant inlaws are always giving other distant inlaws hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars out of sentiment and George Russell is just that kind of guy. And because Agnes has been so great to his wife.

Which really doesn't matter because Marian's railway stock that Mr. Raikes told her was worthless in E1 S1 will turn out to be work gabillions of dollars and Marian will save the day anyway.

And they can add that to the pile of trazillions that is left to Widder Ada because dead Rev was sitting on a heaps of money he told her nothing about. Which considering the marriage lasted about three minutes before he died of back cancer, is probably not a bad theory.

At least it wasn't pernicious anemia that turned into regular, have a steak and don't worry about it so much anemia.

Has anyone verified if The Duke is a real Duke and not a long con played by slutty maid turned rich lady?

[quote]Which really doesn't matter because Marian's railway stock that Mr. Raikes told her was worthless in E1 S1 will turn out to be work gabillions of dollars and Marian will save the day anyway.

I've always suspected there has to be something to the railway stock although, if Raikes had it, he wouldn't be marrying for money since he could have had Marian and social position with her and the stock.

As a minister, Reverend Luke Forte wouldn't have a large pension. However, it's very possible he came from old Boston money which is legally his, but he never had a use for while preaching although that's unlikely given that:

[quote]The Forte family is Italian-American. They emigrated to Boston in 1794 during the French Revolutionary Wars, even though it was unusual for Italians to reside there for a time. The family was Roman Catholic, but Matthew's father married an Episcopalian woman. His father died when he was still young, and the strong character of Matthew's mother led him to enter the Episcopal Church.

The Irish and Italians, as shown by the school teacher, were not held in high regard, so Forte having family money would be somewhat surprising.

I'm curious, why did you always suspect there was something in the railway stock? And what basis is there to think that he came from old Boston moment that was legally his?

[quote]I'm curious, why did you always suspect there was something in the railway stock?

It seemed odd that her father (Agnes's brother) would have bought so much worthless stock, and Raikes had been so shifty about it and pursuing Marian. It seemed like he withheld information, then intended to marry her to gain access to her money. When he skipped out on her, I figured it really was worthless. If she had been a relatively rich heiress, Raikes wouldn't have stood a chance. But, if she were poor, then his chance of marrying her then "discovering" her stock wasn't worthless had a better chance of working.

[quote]And what basis is there to think that he came from old Boston moment that was legally his?

There isn't. I was responding to the previous comment about Ada being left a pot of money to save the day after Forte's death - I noted " although that's unlikely" in my comment. I provided the quote regarding his Italian heritage to support that his having a family money was "unlikely". Obviously, as a minister he didn't make a fortune by working, so family money would have been the only viable source for Ada to inherit as his widow.

Why would her father buy worthless stock? Is it not more likely he bought stock that turned out to be worthless?

Oscar Van Rijn is William's teacher at Eton in "The Crown."

Holiday Gift for Datalounge.

Morgan Spector is a damn hottie!

CNN guy lost me at “It’s subtle; it’s nuanced.”

It has only just now occurred to me that the year this season takes place in was the centenary of the end of the Revolutionary War and the Treaty of Paris. I wish they made the English duke mention that fact and/or threw a gala to mark the occasion. Surely this huge milestone was fêted back in the day?

I fondly recall the fetes and parades celebrating the bicentennial of the Treaty of Paris. Good times.

[quote]It has only just now occurred to me that the year this season takes place in was the centenary of the end of the Revolutionary War and the Treaty of Paris. I wish they made the English duke mention that fact and/or threw a gala to mark the occasion. Surely this huge milestone was fêted back in the day?

This is why I love Datalounge.

R30 - ugh.....that picture makes our Alarm Clock Jack look like Sheldon from BIG BANG THEORY.

I just got home and am about to start the final episode. I am so curious how the Van Rhijns will prevent themselves from having to sell oranges in the streets of the East Village.

Is Agnes's lawyer played by Patty Duke's father?

No, William Schallert is dead. i just checked.

Ok, that was a great finale and, not surprisingly, many DL predictions came true. I hope we get a season 3 somewhere.

Alarm Clock Jack looking adorable as always. Not a shocker where the Duke ended up. DL called a lot of it which is always fun.

The scene with Frances at the girls' school showed her at her creepiest. I think they purposefully cast a child actress with beetlebrows so we didn't feel too heartbroken for her when she got the bad news about Marian.

The likelihood a Mrs. Russell would have given the extra tickets to her cook and housekeeper are pretty tiny.

Both Bertha and Agnes showed their softer sides tonite. The sexual tension between Jack and the Russell boy made me tingle. Can we all admit that Louisa did a fine job this season?

It was weird they wouldn't play at least the opening bars of the overture to "Faust" since that's the show both opera houses played that night, but I guess they're trying to avoid unfortunate comparisons with "The Age of Innocence (which uses that music as its opening theme).

I thought the episode was going to end with Oscar shooting himself like Mr. Morris last season did.

Gladys looked adorkable in her lavender maribou-festooned lollapalooza of a gown.

My favorite moment was when the camera turned to Bertha at the top of the stairs in her green gown, so everyone could swoon at her entrance, and then she clomped down the stairs like a big cow! Hilarious!

R53, I will admit that, except that she needs to work on her awkward gesticulating. Her hands are still a problem. Otherwise, she's much improved over Season 1.

[quote]The sexual tension between Jack and the Russell boy made me tingle.

Watching that scene, I just knew their meeting would perk up you DL boys.

The finale was excrutiatingly predictable.

Poor Gladys looked like a circus poodle in her opera gown.

Did Aurora and her husband end up at the Academy or at the Met? I can't remember. They're so solidly Old New York it would be bizarre if they ended up at the Met. (I couldn't believe Agnes would ever have let Marian go, nor that she wouldn't have yelled at Marian for being a jilt, which was much frowned upon in society then).

Aurora was sitting firmly behind Betha in her box, r62.

Don't try and make any kind of logic out of these inane scripts.

Bertha giving her Tony winning servant girl a little wave at the opera was a nice touch. If it doesn't come back at least they've sort of wrapped things up.

I agree about two things posted upthread-

Meryl Jr. reallybdid improve this season.

The sexual chemistry between Alarm Clock Jack and Larry was downright palpable.

[quote] Did Aurora and her husband end up at the Academy or at the Met? I can't remember. They're so solidly Old New York it would be bizarre if they ended up at the Met.

The Fanes have been growing closer to the Russells since George saved them from penury in the first season, and being younger than Agnes or Mrs Astor, it is logical that they are more willing (and better able) to make the transition into the new arriviste class.

The choice of Faust for opening night was so apt, given the Faustian bargain which Bertha has struck. She relished her great triumph, but she has sold her daughter to achieve it. There is misery in store in season 3.

The finale was wonderful. It wrapped up a bunch of stories effortlessly without any cheeses cliffhanger. Louisa Jacobson was really lovely as Marian. Finally they put her with Larry and I look forward to Season 3. And bravo to Bertha. Bad ass bitch.

Bertha pimped out her daughter

Pimps up, hos down

I think George is going to be very, very unhappy with Bertha for pimping their daughter.

My favorite part was seeing Mrs. Astor’s face when she walked into an empty Academy.

Donna Murphy is so good as Mrs. Astor

The finale was excellent, but I am a little disappointed by the ease with which Mrs Astor has been supplanted by Bertha. It makes Mrs Astor seem a fairly weak figure, and makes Bertha’s rise seem boringly uneventful and free of real jeopardy.

The final scene with Agnes, Marian, Ada, and the butler was a hoot.

We need a third season.

Mrs. Fish steals every episode she's in.

[quote]The finale was excrutiatingly predictable.

Why thank you! It may interest you to know I set a personal best and wrote the whole thing in 14 minutes!

This show reminds of Entourage. There are no stakes and any problem is solved in an episode or two.

I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned Morgan Spector's ass in those tight pants!

I cannot believe you bitches are not hooting over the astounding resolution of the Van Rhin's financial misfortunes. The reverend was secretly hording millions from a fabric mill in Massachusetts? Really, Julian??

If he thinks that American TV viewers are idiots, he may very well be right.

I know. They should've saved that for next season. Imagine watching the 3 women scrape by "in the Jewish quarter" trying to toast their own bread, button their own shoes and empty their own slop jars. Have one of them fall in love with a garment factory owner if they need money again. Missed opportunity

Hooting over it? We saw it coming from a mile away.

Didn;t he pull the same crap on DA?

I mean hooting over it precisely because we saw it coming from a mile away.

Even better than the contrivance of Ada’s suddenly being rich pales in comparison to the contrivance of her not knowing it until just the right dramatic moment.

Even the Bates and Anna Show took a few episodes to solve the cash crisis. This was rushed.

Alarm clock Jack is going to have his invention stolen from him. The question is whether Larry is complicit or not. There is a small, but real chance that Alarm clock Jack will be murdered and Larry will be charged with the motive to steal his invention, but will eventually be exonerated when the real killer who wanted to steal the invention is caught.

Gladys is going to fight marrying the duke, but will fall in love with him, so George will give his blessing.

Marian and Larry will be star crossed for the majority of the run of the show.

They will continue to underuse Christian Baranski.

Anvils were falling when Ada moaned about the paperwork. Nobody is poor on a Fellowes show for more than two episodes, unless they already were poor and then he couldn't care less. Lord Grantham lost the family fortune about 3,000 times over the course of Downton and without fail more money arrived on cue, usually in an amount twice the size of what was lost to begin with.

They certainly squeezed a lot into that one hour finale.

The plotting is hoarier than the most melodramatic sensation novel. Julian Fellowes’ East Lynne or Lady Audrey’s Secret, anyone. And the dialogue is as artificial as any in Restoration Comedy, but with none of the wit.

Of course I watch every episode.

The previously-unknown inheritance from the priest and Marian's break-off of the engagement were both totally predictable. The last scene was delicious. Bring on season three!

Agree that Bertha's obstacle-free rise to the top has been boring as hell. They needed Mrs. Astor to flounce into the Met and announce "I own 51% of this lousy opera house!"

Obstacle free? It took several months for her to overcome Mrs. Astor. Hasn’t the show covered a couple of years?

I don’t believe all those society people would cross Mrs. Astor just to catch a glimpse of a non-Royal Duke.

But it wasn’t just about the Duke. It was about the new Metropolitan and being seen as important.

Do you suppose Agnes's last name is a riff on Rembrandt with just a slight spelling change?

The actor who plays Oscar is in his late 40s. Is Oscar supposed to be that old and never wed?

Oscar looks just like Edgar Allen Poe. I thought her House of Usher joke was a nod to that

The actor who plays the Opera director also played Meryl Streep’s son in Only Murders in the Building. I wonder if Meryl makes power calls to get her friends and family jobs.

The new Metropolitan Opera was important, but they didn’t have to see it that night and fuck Mrs. A.

Jeremy Shamos. The show is a boon to theatre actors.

[quote] I cannot believe you bitches are not hooting over the astounding resolution of the Van Rhin's financial misfortunes. The reverend was secretly hording millions from a fabric mill in Massachusetts? Really, Julian?? If he thinks that American TV viewers are idiots, he may very well be right.

To be fair to Lord Fellowes, he thinks viewers of all lands are idiots. And that said idiots must not be subjected to anything shocking or dramatic. The drama-free resolution of the Van Rijn descent into penury was typical of the shit he used to pull in Downton Abbey, where half the storylines were wrapped up by the arrival of a letter or a policeman appearing to give a summary of the off-screen action.

The Boring bates was saved from prison (after week after tedious week of his miserable dialogue) by the arrival of a report about his ex-wife.

The Second Mrs Bates was shockingly raped, but her rapist never faced any dramatic on-screen comeuppance: he simply disappeared and fell under a bus off camera.

In TGA, I knew Fellowes would fail to let us see Ada’s big moment where she actually discovered that she is now a wealthy widow

[quote]The Second Mrs Bates was shockingly raped, but her rapist never faced any dramatic on-screen comeuppance: he simply disappeared and fell under a bus off camera.

The Rapist Of The Second Mrs Bates experienced eventual justice when he was dropped by his backing dancers and had to pull out of Strictly this series.

Imagine the first episode of the next series.

AGNES: Well, Bannister, wasn't it fortunate that Miss Ada married a man who didn't know he was dying, and that man turned out to be the heir to a fortune that he had rejected after he entered the priesthood.

BANNISTER: Indeed it was Miss Agnes, after the predicament you found yourselves in when Mister Oscar lost all the family money to that scheming woman who infiltrated society. If only homosexuality was legal than Mister Oscar would be able to live his life as a proud gay man with that handsome gentleman he plays tennis with.

AGNES: Enough about homosexuality Bannister! Now tell me, how is young Jack getting on with his clock making venture with the handsome Russell son. As disappointed as I was that Marian broke off her engagement our widower cousin with the strange daughter, she will at least marry into a wealthy family and enjoy the best seats at the opera.

BANNISTER: Indeed Miss Agnes, and it's such a shame that Mrs Astor died in an unfortunate donkey riding accident when travelling in the Alps. I wonder who is to take her place as Mrs Russell's main nemesis?

Blake Ritson (Oscar) is also straight in real life. Shocking.

R99 and R97 he’s wonderful in Here We Are; such a talented actor and a wonderful voice.

R103 I don’t buy it.

Why don’t you ask him?

In Season 3, Ada gets tired of Agnes bossing her around and throws her out. Agnes and her rascist maid ends up in the Jewish quarter, where they both meet elderly hasidic men and marry them for their money. Then they kill them off. Mrs. Astor, to get even, marries her daughter to the Prince of Wales. Edgar Allen Poe arrives to give a lecture and finds that Oscar is his spitting image and they switch places. Jack and Larry make so much money together that Jack buys a house on the park right next door and marries one of Queen Victoria's other children, reducing poor Bertha to a sobbing heap, as the Duke ended up hating Gladys, and has her beheaded, but keeps the "French" chef she brought with her to England, not knowing that he isn't French nor a hetrosexual. Peggy takes her mother to the new Metropolitan Opera, and when the diva loses her voice, Mrs. Scott gets up from the audience and takes over. She becomes a star overnight.

Why wasn't Oscar at the meeting? Surely Ada knew he would be the MOST relieved that the situation was no longer a problem.

And yes what exactly did Larry mean when he said he thought he and Alarm Clock Jack should "go into BUSINESS together"? We've all heard that line before.

[quote]There is a small, but real chance that Alarm clock Jack will be murdered and Larry will be charged with the motive to steal his invention, but will eventually be exonerated when the real killer who wanted to steal the invention is caught.

Is this before or after the two guys have a torrid affair?

So, was Fellowes actually lucky that both Dan Stevens and Jessica Findlay-Whateverhernamewas left DA and forced him into some plot twists he never could have come up with on his own?

Which actors would we like to see leave TGA to provide some plot twists next season (if there is a next season)?

Blake Ritson, who plays Oscar, is also in a couple of episodes in the last season of “The Crown.” He plays Prince William’s house master at Eton. Without the Snidely Whiplash mustache he looks years younger than he does in “The Gilded Age.” And Ed McVey, who plays Prince William, is a nice-looking young man.

The correct title is “Lady Audley’s Secret” not “Audrey.”

Look, Fellowes isn’t Scorsese. The fast reversals, easy solutions and endless happy endings aren’t an impediment to enjoying his shows at this point, they are the REASON we find them so relaxing and entertaining. I am happy that so many NY theater people are getting to work and make a living in this and that the photography and plush locations and plusher costumes look so glorious in HD TV.

I loved the moment when Mrs. Russell took her seat in her central box at the Met, loved the hubbub she caused as well as the applause when the Duke showed up. The whole season built to that moment, it was well staged and directed and it did not disappoint.

And I thought the hints of where they could go next season, including Cynthia Nixon becoming a philathropist and (probably) a suffragette, should be great fun. It’s all going to be terribly silly, unrealistic and lush as well as anachronistically reflecting 2024 rather than 1884, but at this point Fellowes has sapped my will to have this show be better.

I give in, you win, Julian, you old Tory closet case. I’ll be there for you next season.

I hope there is a Season 3 (it’s the number one show on Max when it airs a new episode), but even if it wasn’t it ended on a high note:

The triumph of Bertha

The new age appropriate love of Marian (Larry)

Peggy starting out anew with her family reconciling

R111. I know it’s “Audley,” though apparently Autocorrecr does not and I posted without proofing.

R107, keep a screen shot. You might be able to sue later.

Season 3 will see every episode tell part of the story as Agnes and Ada countersue each other for the right to sit in the centre of the settee.

So Peggy works for Agnes, lives in her house, eats her food, yet she's out and about changing the world in every episode. I want that job.

But I have to prove myself, r116! Both my employers have Tonys and my mother has 6!

Maybe the eldergays can answer this: how accepted was it for people in the prestige boxes at the opera houses to have conversations throughout the performances? It's fucking disrespectful on one hand and simply COMMON on the other.

r115, It will be a time when Agnes is forced to relinquish total control. She will become a better person when her arrogance is not needed to protect her. I see the sisters becoming closer now that they are both widows. I picture them, in the future musical episode, doing "Sisters", slowly and dignified. Ostrich fans excepted.

R118, I wasn't actually there at the time, I missed it by just a few years, but I read, interesting that one of the unintended consequences of the Met having such a large house was that the orchestra and cheap seats opened for the emerging middle and upper middle classes. And apparently they were in the majority actually there to hear the opera. So a real tension arose and eventually the rich had to learn to shut up.

[quote] Maybe the eldergays can answer this: how accepted was it for people in the prestige boxes at the opera houses to have conversations throughout the performances? It's fucking disrespectful on one hand and simply COMMON on the other.

It used to be that house lights were kept up in theaters and opera houses during performances, because it was recognized that the people attending wanted to see what each other were wearing and talk to each other during a performance. In fact, in some places the audience would communicate back and forth with the spectacle on stage (although that had really begun to die out among the upper-classes and respectable opera house and theaters during this time--but it still went on among the commoners). It was becoming more frowned upon by the upper classes, but if you read novels set prior to this time (1873), you'll see people still talked in boxes during performances and loved staring at each other to see what they were wearing.

This really changed in the 1870s with the construction of Richard Wagner's Festspielhaus in Bavaria. Wagner believed very firmly the house lights must be entirely dimmed during a performance, and the audience had to keep absolutely silent during his productions so everyone was riveted on what was going on on the stage. Purists did as he bid, given the artistic cult that formed around him. It very quickly became the case around the world that in high society you showed your respect by what was being performed by remaining silent during a performance, and that carries through even to this day in most middle-class and high-class operatic and theatrical venues.

Thank you R120 and R121 for your sincere and informative replies.

I thought it had just been a plot device but those fucking rich bitches really need to know their place

That is interesting r121. Although I have to imagine that while the younger richie riches might actually want to pay attention, for the older crowd that had seemed the same goddamn opera 50 times already it would be a trial to pretend to be paying attention.

Of course they'd seen and met each other 500 times already and probably had the same stupid boring conversations 1000 times, so maybe it was really a question of which was more boring and tiresome, the opera or the audience.

To think of it, few of the men and almost none of the women would have any clue about what was being sung German or Italian.

Helen Keller could have seen all the plot twists---Bertha getting "her Duke" and scheming to marry off her plain daughter to him; Ada inheriting a fortune from the priest; Jack having the promise of a better life; Agnes being saved from "the Jewish quarter" (probably where the German Jews lived looking down on their Yiddish speaking co-religionists); the Streeplette saying "no" to marriage. The idea that Dashiell was in mourning seemed absurd--he didn't seem to register any emotion here.

Yes, and DL saw all of them r125. It really was completely lazy and dull and stupid of dear Julian to have Bertha triumph so completely and so effortlessly (ho, hum, sigh, pretend we care) at the Met and make the Academy opening such a pre-ordained disaster. Boring, in the way that dear Julian is so fucking boring so very often. And oh no, whatever will Gladys do now? Something dull and boring no doubt, and entirely preordained by the need to have Bertha triumph again without the slightest pretense that she wouldn't.

I do give Julian credit for doing with Marian what he should have done with Lady Edith: letting her reject the thing that fraus all call out for, namely the big stupid wedding as the answer to everything. Letting her choose something else, something she might actually choose for herself. That was good. Like everything else here, predictable, but still, glad it happened.

On the other hand, the little girl would at least be doing her shrieking "I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!" speech, but of course we can't have that in this everybody is kind and good and ultimately decent show.

For all its many, many flaws, Downton Abbey was a significantly better show.

The real problem is that Fellowes may (or may not) know something about the British aristocracy, but he knows NOTHING about America during the Gilded Age. You can tell, he just doesn't truly get it - the pervading notion of American exceptionalism and post Civil War lingering conflicts. He may know about Dukes and Earls, but knows nothing of Robber Barons.

He's just writing by Google and checklist. The show's fine and entertaining but not excellent or inventive.

Edith was at her best or at least her most interesting when she was a mess. The problem with DA was that Edith found happiness and had more status(if less power) than Mary.

As for who's Edith here--it's the Russell's homely daughter and Ada. The daughter will get stuck with the Duke she doesn't want (much like the old guy Edith almost married) and Ada will probably have some new calamity. It would be funny if she had a daughter from mher 5 minutes with Forte whom she names after a flower.

Marian is a mix of various outcast and high spirited (for Brits, anyway) minor characters from DA.

It would truly be hilarious if Ada gave birth next season.

I'm all for it.

I know this would never happen but I wish each season would skip a few years as DA did (didn't it?) so we, as the audience, would have to catch up with everything that happened in the intervening years.

If nothing else it would get the ladies out of those damned bustle dresses and into some cunning leg o' mutton sleeves.

60-year-old Cynthia Nixon is gonna give birth?

Yes, r131, the monstrosity would no doubt be quite amusing.

Peggy, stay at that paper. Fuck the editor, don't fuck the editor, who cares? But stick around at the paper. It's one of the few interesting things happening around there.

Also, your novel already sucks. Just stop with that shit.

Seems to me people are elevating Downton Abbey as some standard, when in reality it’s very similar to The Gilded Age. Maybe people think because they were British it was more sophisticated? They both use history and class for well done soap operas.

The Duke will be just fine with the arranged marriage -- he is a bit foppish, isn't he? Perhaps he and Oscar can get acquainted....

No one's elevating Downton. Gilded Age just seems to be recycling much of it and doing it badly.

I'm sure he would be r137. Seriously for all the build up that they are no doubt going to go through of making her presentable, what the fuck does he care. She is just a big bag of money with a dollar sign on it to him. Who the fuck cares if she is interesting or well dressed or lovely (no, sorry, that ain't happening) or really anything else. She might as well be a deposit at the local bank.

r118, Opera houses could be warm. Most of the conversations were muffled behind fans,

I love R42. I am a trivia nerd. But you just blew my mind with that.

The looks that crossed Nixon's face in the last shot... I had nightmares of Jack opening the front door next season to "Hey, I'm Conchita Diaz."

I think Bertha should have a child next season. Clearly, Bertha could berth-a child!

Clearly Aunt Ada — Cythia Nixon — will now become the bohemian she has always wanted to be. She’ll be opening their house to artists, social workers, suffragettes — consider the delicious possibilities. Agnes will fume in her room, there will be arguments — even in front of the servants — I like this subplot.

The most interesting and least likely to be explored aspect of Ada's new wealth is that everyone, including Ada, just assumes she'll use the money to save Agnes and the rest of the family from penury.

I suppose since Agnes took in Ada, it makes some sense. But, the automatic assumption that she would fund their lives now seems presumptuous. Also, was the good reverend simply banking the profits from the business for the past several decades? While it makes sense that he would let the business continue to operate who was running it? Where was the money going? What are the odds that the people he entrusted were honest and not pocketing money on the side?

You know there has to be an upcoming plot where Ada has to deal with the business and save it from mismanagement.

Will George pitch a fit when he discovers what Bertha had done regarding Gladys? Or will he just roll over like everyone else in NY? If there is a Season 3, hopefully it will feature Mrs. Astor teaming up with Mrs. Winterton to take down Bertha.

I do think they have set up S3 to be a lot of tension between Bertha and George over the Gladys deal. Coon has said many times Bertha believes she is doing her best for Gladys because the world is set up for Larry, not his sister. The weird thing is Bertha is a love match herself, yet the idea seems to have no value in her calculation of Gladys' prospects.

But this is a Fellowes show... everybody who needs money finds buried treasure in the back yard worth twice what they lost, so they won't actually sell Gladys into the harem of the duke.

Either they'll fall in love (a la Robert and Cora on Downton) or Bertha's daughter trafficking will be stopped in its tracks, possibly by some worse mother than her. But again, in a Fellowes show, the baddies are barely. This is escapist entertainment, not real drama.

That said, I don't think there will be a season three. HBO has done Dollar Tree under Discovery. This show isn't a big enough draw, a big enough award winner or cheap enough for the new regime.

NBC Universal still owns a chunk of it, Bob Greenblatt is involved and he tried to CPR Smash to the last breath... so maybe they'll try to sell it elsewhere. It seems to me not a bad fit with Netflix, now The Crown is gone.

[quote] That is interesting [R121]. Although I have to imagine that while the younger richie riches might actually want to pay attention, for the older crowd that had seemed the same goddamn opera 50 times already it would be a trial to pretend to be paying attention.

Actually, for that very reason they wanted the same operas over and over again (the new Met did "Faust" so often it was mocked as the "Faustspielhaus"). They'd know when the big arias and choruses were coming they came to listen to, and when the ballet was the men wanted to se (so they could inspect the ballerinas in the chorus and then procure them afterwards). But they also knew when it was just going to be tiresome plot business so they could talk to each other,

[quote] But this is a Fellowes show... everybody who needs money finds buried treasure in the back yard worth twice what they lost, so they won't actually sell Gladys into the harem of the duke.

It's not the Russells who need the money in this deal; it's the Duke. In exchange for his presence at the opera and bragging rights to being mother to a duchess, Bertha is planning for George to pony up a huge dowry.

"Dollar princesses" existed because the 19th-c. aristocracy had become so impoverished--their estates were no longer making money, and their old ancestral stately homes were falling to pieces. It was the dukes and earls who were desperate for cash, and they wanted huge dowries to improve the family fortunes.

I don't think the Duke is interested in pussy.

Doesn't need to be r151. He just needs to be interested in money.

Gee, R150, no kidding. Dollar Princesses? Never heard of them.

But you might study Julian Fellowes' MO a little more closely. He doesn't do unhappy or impoverished for long. There's no way Gladys is getting sold off in the end. It's not what he does.

Good article on the backstory of how GA came to air.

It was actually kicking around before Downton was in production.

[quote]The most interesting and least likely to be explored aspect of Ada's new wealth is that everyone, including Ada, just assumes she'll use the money to save Agnes and the rest of the family from penury.

Nixon played Ada in series 1 as if she had a learning disability.

The baby girl voice was most irritating.

Maybe Maud Beaton should come back and lez lez Ada into coughing up that money, too.

[quote] The most interesting and least likely to be explored aspect of Ada's new wealth is that everyone, including Ada, just assumes she'll use the money to save Agnes and the rest of the family from penury.

I'd be happy to manage it for her. There's this can't-miss railroad stock I've heard about from some woman somewhere.

Walking home from the opera, it was daylight. Did the opera last all night?

Ridiculously stupid show.

She was walking home from the after Opera party/cold supper at the Russels which did last until the morning.

R158, the actual opening night at the Met somehow managed to last something like five hours, but the Russells (and presumably loads of other people) gave a party after, that like most of the parties went on until dawn. Pretty typical.

It was an entertaining finale, but I was surprised by how little we saw of Oscar. I was half-expecting the episode to begin with Agnes disembowelling him. They didn't even show his reaction to the news of Ada's inheritance.

I hope there's a season three. It'll be such a waste if we never get to see Agnes's reaction to a Larry/Marian pairing.

Maybe Oscar will "adopt" a Cuban twink next season

[quote] Gee, [R150], no kidding. Dollar Princesses? Never heard of them.

Oh Mary: stand down.

R159: Not the first time, there's been a late supper after an event on this show.

r160 as when Marian mentioned that the after supper party was more like a breakfast.

[quote] She was walking home from the after Opera party/cold supper at the Russels which did last until the morning.

Tramp!

Ada should tell Oscar he has to work in the kitchen as staff until he’s paid off his debt.

Oscar's applying to be George's new valet.

Your bath is drawn, sir.

They should have included a scene with all the downstairs staff ripping into Oscar behind his back. You're working every hour God sends, being paid buttons, and then you lose your job because some rich tosser made a painfully stupid investment? But of course, in Julian Fellowes' world, the downstairs staff generally have grudging respect - even sympathy - for their ultra-privileged employers, so that would never have happened.

I was also surprised there was so little of Oscar in the finale. I'm thinking he hightailed it back to the UK to join the cast of The Crown.

What r73 said. My main issue with the series. Bertha always winning is just lazy writing and will probably be the main reason this show won’t get renewed for another season.

Also *Sip*:

[quote]Oscar's applying to be George's new valet...Your bath is drawn, sir.

Why, so he could drink it?

The main reason is it costs and fortune, doesn't win awards, attracts a modest audience and airs on a streamer owned by Discovery, which favors cheap junk. Better writing would solve some of those problems but not all.

We hate watch And Just Like That and it's been renewed yet again so who knows.

AJLT is probably cheaper though. No cast of thousands, no elaborate costumes, no location shoots outside of NYC. Granted, the writing is equally bad on both shows.

R172, more likely so he could dive for pearls.

[quote] AJLT is probably cheaper though. No cast of thousands, [bold]no elaborate costumes,[/bold]

You must be posting from some sort of fascinating parallel universe.

Well, no elaborate costumes they had to make from scratch. That's just a couple of poly filled duvets, probably glue gunned.

r158 you need to remember that in the age of horse carriages, intricate dresses, and the limitations of of the pre-20th century, most grand celebrations lasted late into the night. You'd have people traveling for hours via train or horse to reach one of these events (like the Met opening or a ball, or dinner party). It's customary to basically have an all night buffet, sometimes even a breakfast spread when the sun came up. Drinks all night, along with dancing (the poor musicians and staff). Especially in the US by the time of the gilded age. Remember, this was all about showing off and excess. Most people knew to clear the next day's schedule for sleep.

Also, the post-Met party or even the Russell's ball would start late, but modern standards. Arriving by 7 or 8 which could mean 1-2 hour arrival period was common. The party may not really get going with an actual meal until 10 or 11pm. Then there would be dancing with endless flow or champagne and food.

These events might be someone's single shot to meet a potential spouse, create a business partner, or connect with an old friend from out of town. They made the most out of these expensive affairs and lived for an article in the papers about their parties.

So yes, young people would leave early in the morning or stay till the sun came out. Some gatherings almost lasted till the following day's lunch period before everyone got the hint and went home.

r171 well she is supposed to be a Mrs. Vanderbilt type, and Alva Vanderbilt really did keep on winning. Nothing can stop money in America.

I just rewatched a lost of S1. In S1 they mention the Vanderbilts. If they really want to shake things up, they might as well introduce Alva Vanderbilt. It'll create an alternate universe but give Bertha some real competition. Alva is southern so that could be fun. But introduce a wealthier family to shake things up and steal the Duke. The Vanderbilts are the perfect foil to finally best the Russells.

JF has sad characters and happy characters. Oscar will be banished until he retrieves Agnes' cash.

Just watched the finale. I can't believe how many of you bitches called just about everything.

I guess JF is a very predictable writer, but still. You guys killed it.

R78 most of us Gilded Age fans are bottoms.

Asses don't do it for us.

The Star Wars music blaring as the victorious Bertha descended the stairs to her booth was amazing. Get it, bitch.

She made sure to save her very best bling for this occasion as well.

Are those Nixon’s real teeth??

They are, yes. At a certain age, it just becomes too much of a bother to swap your chompers out for something completely new.

This little homosexual boy is supposed to be Gladys' new love interest in the possible third season, really? She can't catch a break!

Glady has the worst clothes. That purple Met gown was hideous, along with Mrs. Russell's green dress.

I thought Gladys' Met gown was lowkey divine, personally. She definitely doesn't have the figure or the personality to pull it off, however.

I do not get why people praise the costumes of this show. 90% of the time they're gaudy nightmares that look like the bastard child of a drag queen and a jellied salad.

During the strike they had guns pointed at the strikers ready to fire. Was murder legal in those days?

Season three, throw them all on Titanic and see who survives.

I have it on authority that the sleeves were genuine Muppet fur.

r191 No, but I assume protecting your property with weapons was.

R188 I am surprised DL didn't comment on the print of Bertha's green Met Opening dress. It looks "printed" on, not woven. The scale of the graphic seems almost pop-artish, modern, ironic. Is this a period dress? I don't get it at all.

Thanks R195 I knew something was amiss but until I read your post, I couldn't put my finger on it.

It was based on a dress in The Met Museum archive. I am guessing they made it that color so it would pop in the extreme long shot across the theatre toward Bertha surveying her kingdom.

She was like fucking Simba up on that Pride Rock in that moment, all grown up and majestic.

[quote] Season three, throw them all on Titanic and see who survives.

The Titanic sank forty years after the series takes place.

Oh, details!

[quote] Season three, throw them all on Titanic and see who survives.

Spoiler alert: Mrs Astor's son won't.

[quote]The Titanic sank forty years after the series takes place.

Make it a flashback!

Fuck you R194. Pinkertons and the federal government murdered striking workers in a bunch of places so that you could scroll grinder on the first Monday in September. Of course it's not taught in public school and won't be now especially. Our evening news doesn't even report on strikes unless it's something that will majorly inconvenience people and then always thro the lens of "What a pain in the ass it will be when these assholes who want a living wage make flying a bigger hassle this month"

[quote]Pinkertons and the federal government murdered striking workers in a bunch of places so that you could scroll grinder on the first Monday in September.

Well, that was not the one new thing I expected to learn today.

r203 Overreaction much, Mary? I was simply pointing out their possible reasoning at the time (it was a different era), obviously I side with the unions now and then.

That's gorgeous, R197. I love all the Worth dresses I've seen. They just exude artistry, luxury, and impeccable construction.

R197 The graphic design is the same (or similar) but that is black velvet sewed on satin. The dress on TGA looked like it was a print... just printed on fabric. It looked like a fake costume for Disneyland or community theater or a cartoon.

[quote] Fuck you [R194]. Pinkertons and the federal government murdered striking workers in a bunch of places so that you could scroll grinder on the first Monday in September.

Such DRAMA!

Take a break from the keyboard, pal.

I feel bad for saying this because I don't want to encourage Trumpian gaudiness, but the Academy of Music place looked quite shitty compared to the Met.

Dumb show. Not fun, just dumb.

But you watch it every week

Yes, for the actors.

R202 = Julian Fellowes

I think the show is quite dumb in a lot of ways, but I really enjoy watching it. It IS fun.

Vote early and often.

I'd vote yes if we can see more butts.

[quote] I'd vote yes if we can see more butts.

But not Agnes's.

Well, that was fast.

Renewed!

[quote]I feel bad for saying this because I don't want to encourage Trumpian gaudiness, but the Academy of Music place looked quite shitty compared to the Met.

I'm curious why you'd expect otherwise. Seems obvious that the Met would have to trump (no pun intended) the Academy, and while I know the original buildings are long gone, I'd think that the production designers would've used archival photos & whatnot to recreate their respective environments.

OTOH this being DL, I'm surprised no one's yet ID'd the theatre used for the Met scenes. (Unless it was somehow entirely digital, but it looked pretty legit.)

Details

Gays and black women rejoice!

Good. Julian Fellows needs to visit DL. The ideas and storylines are much more interesting snd entertaining than the dribble he wrote.

[quote]I'm surprised no one's yet ID'd the theatre used for the Met scenes. (Unless it was somehow entirely digital, but it looked pretty legit.)

The production company has stated they did not use one building for the Met, but rather used different sets (and some CGI) and creative editing of angles to create the illusion of a coherent single building.

They did mostly use the Philadelphia Academy of Music as a stand-in for NYC's old Academy of Music (as Scorsese did in The Age of innocence), but they had to build sets to create the illusion of box seats, since the Philadelphia's box seats were taken down decades ago.

*drivel

-R223

I’m delighted it was renewed but I’m sure it didn’t come as a surprise to anyone connected to the production. There were too many hints of where the series was going to go next year, and there was a confidence to this season (earned or not) that suggested a series hitting its stride. interesting that the viewership built week by week.

If they allow it to keep its budget it should be very interesting. We'll almost certainly se the Russells make a transatlantic crossing to see the Duke's stately pile in England, and there's where we might finally get to see the crossover of the Cora and Robert Grantham characters in their younger years Fellowes has long promised. It will also be interesting to see how the Russells' marriage endures the strain of the betrothal, since George was quite clear he wants Gladys to be able to marry for love, not money.

It will also be worthwhile to see this new angle on Agnes and Ada's relationship with Ada controlling the purse strings (through the deus ex machina plot device). Also, will Agnes have anything to do anymore with Oscar? He's her only child, and yet he took away all her power. What will he do with himself at this point?

One of the bigger problems the show might have (if they care to address it at all) is that if they keep Mrs. Astor as an important character, they'll have to clarify how her authority remained as strong as ever after the Academy of Music fiasco. That opera house had to close, but Mrs. Astor still ruled NY society until the 1890s.

I do hope we get much more of Mrs. Fish. She's the most fun of all the tertiary characters by far. She enlivens every episode she's in.

I like Mrs. Fish, too

[quote]One of the bigger problems the show might have (if they care to address it at all) is that if they keep Mrs. Astor as an important character, they'll have to clarify how her authority remained as strong as ever after the Academy of Music fiasco. That opera house had to close, but Mrs. Astor still ruled NY society until the 1890s.

Yes, it would be absolutely wonderful if we could see Mrs. Astor get at least one significant victory over the always winning Bertha.

I love Mrs. Fish as well!

[quote]r61 Poor Gladys looked like a circus poodle in her opera gown.

That overdone lavender dress was fug.

[quote]r113 I know it’s “Audley,” though apparently Autocorrecr does not and I posted without proofing.

“Lady Audrey [Hepburn]’s Secret [Eating Disorder]”

The show was "saved by the gays" apparently

[quote]R118 Maybe the eldergays can answer this: how accepted was it for people in the prestige boxes at the opera houses to have conversations throughout the performances?

I think it was fashionable to miss the first act entirely… so, I wouldn’t be surprised.

I imagine arriving late sent the message you were so worldly and cultured that you’d seen every opera so many times it didn’t matter that you missed the beginning, this time. And it also let everyone seated in the house see your substantial jewels and finery when you made YOUR entrance. But I’m just thinking out loud - I don’t know how the custom started.

[quote]R167 Ada should tell Oscar he has to work in the kitchen as staff until he’s paid off his debt.

Yes. And she will send Agnes to work in the newly acquired mills for a month to earn her bread, if she squawks about how the household is run under Ada’s management.

The show needs a villain; Ada’s iron fist can arise to crack the whip.

I’ll believe there will be a Season 3 if production resumes. WB Discovery which owns HBO is going through severe financial issues. And TGA could definitely be “unrenewed.” It happened to that Scorsese show Vinyl.

MORE GAY STORYLINES.

....

The Academy was a music venue in Troy, NY, not Philadelphia.

Bertha Russell stands triumphantly in her center box of the new Metropolitan Opera House at the end of Season 2. To create this grand venue, the production team blended three separate film locations. We explain in Episode 4 locations how the team used shots of the Philadelphia Academy of Music to digitally recreate the opera house. In Episode 8, we see more public areas of the opera house. Scenes on the stairs and in the lobby were shot at the Palace Theater in Albany, New York. Production designer Bob Shaw explained to AwardsDaily that the crew built five opera boxes and the corridors outside on a curved set on a soundstage in Long Island.

The battle of the two opera houses comes to a close in Season 2’s grand finale. In this episode, we get a look inside the new Metropolitan Opera House as well as the old New York Academy of Music. The Troy Savings Bank Music Hall is where the Academy scenes were shot. In 1870 the Troy Savings Bank planned to relocate to a larger facility. Originally founded in 1823, to demonstrate appreciation for the local community the bank included a music hall in plans for the new building. George Browne Post designed the structure, which was completed in 1875.

The very first shot in the hallway of the theater was filmed at The Palace Theatre in Albany. The stage the actors are standing on is a set while the house they look out to is a green screen image of the house of the Philadelphia Academy of Music. Pitkus explained that though there are many grand theaters in New York, there are few that are built like the original Metropolitan Opera. As opposed to movie theaters that have mezzanines, opera theaters have a horseshoe shape. The closest thing to this in New York City from around the same time, Pitkus noted, is Carnegie Hall. Rather than bring the cast to Philadelphia, the special effects team made a detailed 3D scan of the theater and shot B-roll which they then used to create what was seen in the show.

I want another glorious moment like that for Bertha by the end of season three, only this time on the White House balcony.

Please, don't give Julian Fellowes any ideas r240! He's already so ridiculous about the endless and eternal triumph of Bertha Russell in every situation.

AGREE r241! 🙄

Perhaps the Duke will have a mother or grandmother who will give Bertha the smackdown she needs.

The good news is the balcony at the White House wasn't built until 1948.

[quote] The good news is the balcony at the White House wasn't built until 1948.

Only because Bess Truman had heard about Eva Peron on the balcony of the Casa Rosada and wanted to be given her own opportunity to shine.

"It won't be easy... you'll think it strange..."

R243. Don't look at me

a LOVELY shot of the academy of music (in philadelphia) at the end

Larry's and Jack's "business partnership" is going to be a thing of beauty – purer than the driven snow and more innocent than Virgin Mary's aural insemination. I just love them together. Those two better be fucking in real life.

They're both very attractive, and the right age for each other. It could work! I like that A.C. (Alarm Clock) Jack has a brain and the means of self-improvement.

I haven't revisited this pile of shit since halfway through season 1.

Nothing I've read indicates it's becoming a quality drama series, just that gay men continue to lower their expectations. Ooh pretty costumes!

I'll stick with rewatching Mad Men and Six Feet Under.

Then why are you posting in this thread? 🤔

Believe it R250, no one cares what you watch or don’t watch. Kindly, buzz off.

"Mad Men"? Didn't take long for that show to be completely forgotten.

[quote]I'll stick with rewatching Mad Men and Six Feet Under

Old people like the familiar.

In a crazy narrative leap, in season three, Bertha Russell transitions and becomes … Bertrand Russell!!!

Aunt Ada, now rich, will be her champion

My own prediction---it will be even dumber next year. If DA is any indication, the plots will get even worse.

Goerge Russell needs to take off his clothes more often

I'm really only interested in next season if Ada comes back as a massive bitch with money.

She's coming back with her own private secretary, Che Diaz.

R253 Right, forgotten. That's why Variety just this month rated Man Men as the second greatest show of all time.

R258 Do you post this multiple times in TGA threads or are their multiple enthusiasts? He's handsome, but not all that... to me.

^^ are there

Why do you come here to do this, R261? Go find a Mad Men thread. There must be plenty.

R263 Right. Stop responding to other posters.

Oh, and R263 is R261, responding to himself. Why do you do that?

Is season 2 over?

R264, you might want to get your meds checked re. the voices. I am not both posters.

Yes. You can come out now.

I think the show will have run it's course after a third season.

Gladys will be sent to become British aristocracy. Her brother will end up with Marian, forcing detente with Agnes and Bertha.

Bertha will reign supreme because her son-in-law is an English nobleman.

George will become even richer and start a university somewhere as his legacy.

[quote]The good news is the balcony at the White House wasn't built until 1948.

The ego of first-time presidents to immediately begin renovating the White House and its surroundings is something I'll never understand. I strongly believe that's something you've earned only after winning the second term. So Truman with his balcony and Jackie and Melania with their radical Rose Garden remodelling can fuck right off.

Um, R269, the White House was on the verge of falling down when the Truman renovations were undertaken. One day, while President Harry S. Truman took a bath upstairs, a great Blue Room chandelier threatened to crash down on his wife, Bess, and her guests from the Daughters of the American Revolution. The president later joked that he might have unexpectedly dropped through the ceiling naked on the ladies below, and he confessed that the incident made him nervous. The upstairs floor, he noted, “sagged and moved like a ship at sea.” The next year, his daughter Margaret’s piano fell through the floor in the room today known as the Private Dining Room.

But this is DL... never, never, never let the facts get in the way of a good bellow in complete ignorance. And for God's sake, post first and Google later.

White House has always been treated like shit. The residents know they won’t stay, so pass the capital projects on to the next administration.

R239, thanks for the detailed explanation! I was wondering if they had to do some form of "stitched together" set using elements from multiple buildings, and this all makes sense, given that we already know how much was filmed in Troy & Albany (two cities I may actually need to visit, given their clearly much too-little-known architecture).

R227, I wouldn't hold my breath for a "Downton Abbey" crossover, if only due to rights issues. It was an ITV production (basically broadcast TV in most of the UK) shown on PBS stateside, and they have no relationship with Warners. Also more than a bit of a stretch considering it takes place 40 years earlier: I know Fellowes has talked about a "Downton" prequel, but it does *not* need any sort of "boost" from a related American production, plus ITV likely still controls the rights. (And while this may seem surprising, the Brits spend WAY more money on period shoots than American production companies. ITV paid the Earl of Carnarvon – owner of Highclere Castle, which has always doubled for Downton with both its exteriors and ground-floor rooms – £10 million solely to USE it for filming! (In later seasons, obviously, and I gather ITV wasn't happy about it, but there actually *are* a few locales impossible to accurately recreate on soundstages or with CG.

R235, Warners waited until after the season ended to decide on renewing it, and did so because its ratings went *up* with each passing week. HBO (or Max or whatever) had three pricey period shows and it was already a given that they'd cancel at least one, but as it turned out they cancelled two ("Perry Mason" and "Winning Time"). Yes, they're having financial woes, but I'm not seeing any scenario where they'd "re-cancel" this one, especially since they have a fairly short shooting window if they're gunning to film during summer 2024 (and I assume each season will be set in the summer - given that all the outdoor scenes are on sets with live foliage, that'd be a challenge to film around).

[quote]Do you post this multiple times in TGA threads or are their multiple enthusiasts? He's handsome, but not all that... to me.

I'm not R258 and haven't posted anything about him, but yes, Morgan Spector has developed a fairly large fan base at this point. He's not really my type, either, but for some reason I get the impression that he's mindblowingly good in bed.

As for next season: I await Christine Baranski's tarty barbs over Ada's reversal of fortune (and loss of her own). Marian & Larry will finally end up together, which was a given from the get-go. I'm curious to see how Larry's venture with Jack & his clocks goes. Finally, fingers crossed that Christine's former "Good Fight" co-star Audra McDonald is bumped up to series-regular status. (It's more than a tad odd that she's one of only eight people featured in this season's main photo, though I realize there are limits to what can realistically be done with a Black female character in Gilded Age-era NYC.)

It was co-produced by Carnival Films and PBS. ITV does not likely hold any rights.

[quote] In a crazy narrative leap, in season three, Bertha Russell transitions and becomes … Bertrand Russell!!!

Bertrand Russell was only an earl, so that wouldn't be good enough for her. A duke at the VERY least is all she would accept.

r272, you forgot Minx (70's comedy), which had already completed S2, when they decided to cancel it.

R273: Still a matter of non-overlapping rights.

[quote]My own prediction---it will be even dumber next year. If DA is any indication, the plots will get even worse.

C'mon lighten up. Like "Downton Abbey" it's just a silly soap opera in fancy dress. Think of it as "The Real Housewives Of 5th Avenue". The only thing missing is Mrs. Astor overturning the luncheon table calling Mrs Russell a bitch.

I hope Fellowes is feeling generous next season and gives us a nice juicy flashback to the Brooklyn Bridge stampede. Or at least have someone with PTSD retell the story for our amusement. Something, anything.

What the hell are non-overlapping rights? If a right doesn't overlap, it doesn't conflict. You got it wrong. ITV was the broadcaster, not the producer.

I love the poster obsessed with showing the Brooklyn Bridge stampede on "The Gilded Age."

My personal favorite is eye syphilis on another thread - "it will be interesting, mark my words" - but yeah, the Brooklyn Bridge fixation is a good one.

Over on Reddit some genius wondered if the election of Arthur or Cleveland os some 1880s president would be a possible storyline.

The costume designer(s) should win an award.

Don't forget the poster who was certain they would depict the centennial celebrations of the Treaty of Paris.

Alarm Clock Jack and his new "best friend" John Adams II will build a new house to rival the Russell's house, and John and Bertha will become mortal enemies.

Neglected Alarm Clock Jack and Mr. Russell will find themselves involved in a back street affair that will become the talk of all New York and Newport.

r283 You misremember, I merely wondered once why we weren't seeing any of those on the show. Although I guess the Civil War kinda overshadowed everything back in the 19th century.

Maybe because they're boring as fuck?

How uncouth.

Don't hold your breath about Jack and young Mr. Russell. He's already shown himself to be very hetero with the older woman in Newport.

However, Oscar is now descending to Jack's social class. And if he manages somehow to live on his own (aunt Ada may have pity on him), he will need a valet.

“Minx” lost the thread when the second season became less about laughs and cocks and more about a gay man of color and women in general flexing their muscles politically. It ceased to be funny and I was never invested enough in the characters to actually be expected to care about their lives and lot in life. And there were never enough good-looking men in it as regulars.

“The Gilded Age” is actually doing it right — Fellowes understands that people like it as a plush-looking wallow in glamor and melodrama, a soap opera with expensive silk dresses.

Maybe Oscar will get blackmailed by rough trade

Uncle Julian can't bear anything other than a happy ending. Somehow, Oscar will get the money back. He's already made sure Agnes won't be turning tricks by having dead Rev slip Ada a few million and that barely took an episode.

My God, Marian, we were poor for twelve hours. Do you think I am going to forget that after all I've gone through!

Oscar will suck cocks for fun and folly

Celia KB is easily the worst actress on the show.

She’s the worst actress ANYWHERE.

[quote] She’s the worst actress ANYWHERE.

Oh stop, she's a good Tony Award winning. actress. You're discriminating because she is no raving beauty.

Which one is she?

She’s not even a regular beauty, much less a raving one. And there ain’t nothing wrong with that. She’s a talented actress.

She's definitely no raving beauty but she also just falls flat. Kelli O'Hara manages to spin gold out of the same dreck but all we get from her is Debbie Downer smile.

Mamie Fish is DL's familiar: nosy, opinionated, sharp tongued and fat. I heart her.

I kind of want Ada to get into spiritualism, and hold a seance to contact her dead husband. The eye-rolling from Agnes. Marian and Peggy trying not to look at each other cause they'll burst out laughing if they do. And Oliver afraid to say anything, cause who the hell is he to lecture somebody about getting conned.

The priest will be forgotten and never mentioned again---that's Julian's style.

r299, so does mister ADAMS

Ada should turn the house into a school for little colored children.

Good God, r303!

well, we knew their would be change as soon as Mrs Forte married a papist

The Duke of Wellington will marry Gladys against her will, but will secretly yearn for Alarm Clock Jack, and will compete with Archie to be his "business partner".

Hopefully, her marriage to the Duke will take her homely face and tedious character out of the show.

R307 - has there ever been a more pointless character? I have a feeling the reason Bertha's so hard on her is because she's such a total, brainless, imbecile.

r305 The priest was hardly a papist. Episcopalian (Anglican) - you know, the church that broke away from the papists 500 years ago?

Huh for some reason, Google identified the Larry character as Archie. It should be Larry in my r306 post.

True, r309, however I'm sure that now she's got a little coin in her pockets, the Vatican will get their clutches on her shortly.

"You've been a bride for a minute. Have you tried being a Bride of Christ for eternity?"

quote[e priest was hardly a papist. Episcopalian (Anglican) - you know, the church that broke away from the papists}

once a papist, always a papist

I'm actually disappointed that TGA won't be on tomorrow (didn't really notice last week because it was Christmas). I enjoyed this series so much more than the last one.

Me too

Mrs Armstrong is such an irredeemable cunt. Her character needs to be killed off and never referenced again.

I don’t get it. The villainous characters on Downton Abbey at least showed moments of kindness (O’Brien, Barrow). It’s a shame The Gilded Age chose the cartoon villain route.

Gladys is aggressively unattractive. Having her trotted around as some prize never ceases to make me laugh.

And personality wise she makes Edith Crawley look fun.

R316, she's rich. That makes her a prize for fortune hunters

R315, I think the show would have been criticised if they'd humanised such an overtly racist character.

BroadwayWorld.com has a complete list of every Broadway actor who appeared in Season 2 of The Gilded Age. My husband and I are rewatching the season and have been able to find all of them. Kind of fun

Benanti's character came across like a swivel eyed loon.

For some reason it seems normal for the cast of a British series to be filled with stage actors, but it strikes me as odd in the case of The Guilded Age.

With the exceptions of Morgan Spector, Bannister, John, Charles Fane, and Peggy’s boss and father, I find all of the other male roles completely miscast. Maybe the affectations of a stage actress translate well when playing a late 19th century socialite. But more effort should’ve been put into casting the male roles…ignoring Broadway or The West End if necessary.

By the way, Laura Benanti was completely forgettable as Mrs. Blane. I’m surprised she managed inspire so many critiques about her performance.

[quote] the case of The Guilded Age

Oh, dear

[quote]But more effort should’ve been put into casting the male roles…ignoring Broadway or The West End if necessary.

In favour of what type of actor? All that's left from your list is Oscar, Larry and the occasional John Adams.

[quote]For some reason it seems normal for the cast of a British series to be filled with stage actors, but it strikes me as odd in the case of The Guilded Age.

Shows like this were usually filmed in England, this one is actually shot in New York with access to theater actors. Even the whole block of the mansion is on is out on Long Island.

Keep in mind "theatre actors" are accustomed to and trained to handle complex /heightened language. The writing on The Gilded Age is far from complex and layered speech. The writing really needs to be better so these actors can do what distinguishes them from non-stage actors.

A casual friend of mine who teaches violin posted that one of her former students visited....and that he is assistant location manager for The Gilded Age......

So I am only two degrees of separation from the show.

[quote]"theatre actors" are accustomed to and trained to handle complex /heightened language.

Yeah, Nathan Lane is a real standout in this aspect. I wonder if Mathew Broderick is interested in taking the role of Miss Prissy.

I’m glad the show’s been renewed, yet also completed unexcited about watching Season 3.

The show quietly beats you down. I expect nothing.

I love The Gilded Age. I thought season 2 was great. I can't believe all the complaining going on here and elsewhere.

Season two was definitely better. I feel like somebody brought a level of discipline to Fellowes' writing. It wasn't great, but it was much improved. It's still far too much about plot. The main female lead character is largely a mystery except for her ravenous appetite to climb the ranks. The actress brings some nuance to her but the scripts sure don't help. Fellowes is hopelessly addicted to his lazy happy endings and the cast if far too big in an eight episode season to bring much focus to anything. It is infuriatingly mindless and lazy yet oddly addicting. Julian Fellowes may be one of the luckiest modestly talented in history.

[quote]However, Oscar is now descending to Jack's social class. And if he manages somehow to live on his own (aunt Ada may have pity on him), he will need a valet.

It's Ada. Of *course* she'll have pity for him. That being said: this is NYC, not England, the difference in this context being class mobility. It would've been entirely impossible for the Russells to exist in the Downton world: they're a fictionalized version of the Vanderbilts, who were entirely self-made. (The family patriarch, Cornelius, grew up on Staten Island!) Early 20th-c. Britain had zero "self-made millionaires," only aristos with centuries-old land holdings. Also: Bertha's disgraced lady's maid Turner marrying someone nearly as rich as the Russells would've been utterly unthinkable in England. (Yes, I know Branson the chauffeur on "Downton Abbey" married Sybil. Not at all the same: they married for love. Turner's a trollop who married a geezer for his money after failing to seduce George.)

Given his literal inventiveness and generally charming personality, I'm assuming he'll soon be parting ways with the Van Rhijn household and making his way into high-society circles on his own (and likely out-class Oscar – literally & figuratively – within a year or two).

[quote]The Duke of Wellington will marry Gladys against her will

It's the Duke of Buckingham featured on the series; he's a fictional character. Obviously the show includes actual people from the era, most notably Mrs. Astor, but considering there's an actual Duke of Wellington, they couldn't have him pottering off to the US to find a (barely legal) bride without causing an international incident with Britain! (And btw England only has 30 dukes, and six of them are members of the royal family. Prince William is also the Duke of Cornwall.)

[quote]I kind of want Ada to get into spiritualism, and hold a seance to contact her dead husband.

Oh PLEASE. Ada's proven far savvier than we initially knew, stuck under Agnes's thumb as a presumed spinster for decades. They were also married for all of five minutes. Not exactly life partners.

[quote]Keep in mind "theatre actors" are accustomed to and trained to handle complex /heightened language. The writing on The Gilded Age is far from complex and layered speech. The writing really needs to be better so these actors can do what distinguishes them from non-stage actors.

Are you entirely unacquainted with the world of Broadway, dear? Hundreds, if not thousands, of stage actors accept guest-starring gigs on NYC-made TV show – in particular its many procedurals, e.g. SVU alongside DL fave Mariska Hargitay – and even high-profile ones do so on occasion. Even Jonathan Groff guest-starred a single time on "The Good Wife"! (no scenes with Christine, alas) Not sure why you think stage actors can only "work" with "complex language": if anything I'd expect the exact opposite, that a highly trained theatrical actor can adopt any of myriad roles given their talent, plus it's usually the other way around. (Novices can't learn complex dialogue easily, but the same is *not* true the other way around.)

[quote]The main female lead character is largely a mystery except for her ravenous appetite to climb the ranks. The actress brings some nuance to her but the scripts sure don't help.

Agree to disagree. Aside from Agnes, she's the show's best character, plus she's married to a DEFINITE stud giving off some definite zaddy vibes.

[quote]Shows like this were usually filmed in England, this one is actually shot in New York with access to theater actors. Even the whole block of the mansion is on is out on Long Island.

Wow! I knew the 61st & 5th set was someone on Long Island, but I've never seen a photo from outside the show for it (let alone an aerial one). What I can't tell from it is if the Russells' house is the lone "in-place" set; it definitely looks that way on the show. (I also suspected they'd been faking the shot above the houses' parlor levels with CG, and this confirms it, with the lone except of the Russell's center entryway.)

[quote]Are you entirely unacquainted with the world of Broadway, dear?

Cut the dear shit, asshole. You're discussing the Gilded Age at thesis length. You're in no position to do snide.

And that comment was misguided, anyway. It seems clear the point wasn't "Broadway actors can only handle complex dialogue" but "give these trained actors something better to work with than this facile stuff, because they of all people can handle it."

R334, I discussed it "at thesis length" only because I wasn't on DL during the holidays & am catching up. And I still think the commentary about stage actors "lowering" themselves to work in television is silly. I hit Post too soon last time, but what I meant to say re: actors is that even Tony winners may have no idea what their next stage gig will be, so they take on guest-starring roles – usually for the SAG minimum – solely to keep the lights on.

"The Gilded Age" is a soap opera, not Shakespeare – and that's entirely fine. Its dialogue is appropriately catty/campy, though like most I'd argue it's not at Downton's level. Finally, none of its actors are forced to work on it, and its two biggest stars almost certainly do not. (Christine Baranski made tens of millions during her 12 years (!!) on "The Good Wife" and "The Good Fight." Cynthia Nixon probably still has bank saved up from SATC's original run, and she's getting $1M per ep for "And Just Like That...")

The show's thespians are there because they want to be there. Simple as that.

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. News flash, R336, you talk at length, rudely, about trivia as it's important. Thespians indeed, your ladyship.

[quote]"give these trained actors something better to work with than this facile stuff, because they of all people can handle it."

Thanks R335, I am the author of that comment and that is exactly what I meant. I actually enjoyed R333's haughty post, despite the snark. It represents a kind of Queen-ing that is rare these days and I appreciate the snark, the superiority and the willingness to be both completely offensive and have a point or two worth listening to.

[quote] That being said: this is NYC, not England, the difference in this context being class mobility. It would've been entirely impossible for the Russells to exist in the Downton world: they're a fictionalized version of the Vanderbilts, who were entirely self-made. (The family patriarch, Cornelius, grew up on Staten Island!) Early 20th-c. Britain had zero "self-made millionaires," only aristos with centuries-old land holdings.

R334, it is not true at all to say that Britain had no self-made millionaires. The age of empire, and the industrial revolution had a great impact on the social structures of the UK too: there were fortunes to be made, and the did not all fall into the hands of the aristocracy.

One UK equivalent of both Russells is Sir Thomas Lipton. He was the gay, glass-closeted son of a couple who fled to Scotland during the Irish Famine and he built his business from up from nothing. Like Bertha, he had an interest in climbing the social ladder, which in his case expressed itself through his interest in yachting. He was excluded from the Royal Yacht Squadron (until the last year or two of his life) by pure snobbery, but overcame this by joining another club and investing huge amounts on his boat and competed in the America’s cup 5 times.

He was looked down upon by many in the upper classes, but was a close friend of Edward VII and George V. These friendships were baffling to Kaiser Wilhelm II who thought his British cousins were disgraceful to accommodate men of the merchant classes. One day, when visiting Cowes week and being asked where King Edward was, he was heard to exclaim incredulously, “He’s gone sailing with his grocer!”.

Apologies to r334, my post above should have been addressed to r333.

If Lord Fellowes and his battallion of screenwriters have any sense, they will marry Oscar off to a newly-widowed Turner early in series 3. They already had an alliance of sorts in season 1, and they both know who the other really is. Oscar knows that Turner is a schemer and she knows that Oscar needs money (now more than ever).

There would also be enjoyable drama in Agnes being dependent not only on Ada, but also on her gay son’s low-rent wife, and in Bertha witnessing Turner’s ascendancy into one of the older New York families.

R339, I stand corrected. I should've considered the fact that the Industrial Age created wealthy people outside of the US. That being said, my main point about class mobility stands. The fact that Kings George & Edward "liked his company" (direct quote from your cited Wikipedia article) does not in any way mean he was a truly accepted member of high society, or an active participant in Britain's many posh rituals. (OTOH if you have proof that Lipton was, for instance, permitted into the Royal Enclosure at Royal Ascot – the arguable apex of English high society for 300+ years – I might have a change of heart.)

You also glossed over the reality that Lipton was an exception to Britain's broader lack of class mobility primarily because he spent so much time over the years in the US, including during the real-life Gilded Age. He also invented the modern version of the drink almost automatically associated with Britain.

Damn you, R339, for glossing over. How dare you, sir?

Now this is a proper DL discussion.

[quote] The fact that Kings George & Edward "liked his company" (direct quote from your cited Wikipedia article) does not in any way mean he was a truly accepted member of high society, or an active participant in Britain's many posh rituals. (OTOH if you have proof that Lipton was, for instance, permitted into the Royal Enclosure at Royal Ascot – the arguable apex of English high society for 300+ years – I might have a change of heart.)

If you think that attendance and participation at Cowes Week in Victorian/Edwardian England (an event of such social significance that the German Kaiser and British King-Emperor made the trip every year) and sailing with the King in your boat was not a sign of social acceptance at the highest ranks, then I’m afraid we have to disagree. What is a matter of record is that King Edward made Lipton a Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order, which is awarded at the monarch’s discretion to those deemed to have rendered exceptional service to the monarchy.

[quote] You also glossed over the reality that Lipton was an exception to Britain's broader lack of class mobility primarily because he spent so much time over the years in the US, including during the real-life Gilded Age.

The real-life equivalents of George Russell were exceptional in America’s class system too. There is a reason why the robber-barons of the Gilded Age found it easier to form their own social circles than break into the old ones. People like Mrs Astor knew what class they were, and were not going to yield to those from the lower orders just because they had cash!

Class exists on both sides of the Atlantic: it just expresses itself in different forms of snobbery and socia striving.

I have noticed that the AI Trolls are exceptionally wordy. If I were Olga in HR, I would give them an A for thoroughness, but we are on a board where, "What a cunt" is sufficient. tl;dr is a hallmark of AI Trolls.

R346, there's something about period dramas that brings out the overbearing thesaurus in the old dolls.

Holy shit, is there a show around that can inspire this level of cuntery AFTER it is over?

[quote] People like Mrs Astor knew what class they were, and were not going to yield to those from the lower orders just because they had cash!

That's actually not true. Just as Mrs. Astor on the show had to admit the nouveau riche Bertha Russell into her social circle, the real Mrs. Astor had to do the same for the arriviste Alva Vanderbilt.

[quote]Also: Bertha's disgraced lady's maid Turner marrying someone nearly as rich as the Russells would've been utterly unthinkable in England.

Marrying so far out of your class was certainly frowned upon in England, but it was not "utterly unthinkable." Emma, Lady Hamilton, was born a servant before she married the very wealthy Sir William Hamilton, the British ambassador to the Court of Naples.

She was a whore

So that makes one.

R338 "Would that it were so simple."

2024 SAG nomination

“THE GILDED AGE”

BEN AHLERS / Jack

ASHLIE ATKINSON / Mamie Fish

CHRISTINE BARANSKI / Agnes van Rhijn

DENÉE BENTON / Peggy Scott

NICOLE BRYDON BLOOM / Maud Beaton

MICHAEL CERVERIS / Watson

CARRIE COON / Bertha Russell

KELLEY CURRAN / Mrs. Winterton

TAISSA FARMIGA / Gladys Russell

DAVID FURR / Dashiell Montgomery

JACK GILPIN / Church

WARD HORTON / Charles Fane

LOUISA JACOBSON / Marian Brook

SIMON JONES / Bannister

SULLIVAN JONES / T. Thomas Fortune

CELIA KEENAN-BOLGER / Mrs. Bruce

NATHAN LANE / Ward McAllister

MATILDA LAWLER / Frances Montgomery

ROBERT SEAN LEONARD / Luke Forte

AUDRA MCDONALD / Dorothy Scott

DEBRA MONK / Armstrong

DONNA MURPHY / Mrs. Astor

KRISTINE NIELSEN / Mrs. Bauer

CYNTHIA NIXON / Ada Brook

KELLI O’HARA / Aurora Fane

PATRICK PAGE / Richard Clay

HARRY RICHARDSON / Larry Russell

TAYLOR RICHARDSON / Bridget

BLAKE RITSON / Oscar van Rhijn

JEREMY SHAMOS / Mr. Gilbert

DOUGLAS SILLS / Borden

MORGAN SPECTOR / George Russell

JOHN DOUGLAS THOMPSON / Arthur Scott

ERIN WILHELMI / Adelheid

I figured you bitches will love this: a 1961 photo of (by then elderly) Consuelo Vanderbilt.

[quote] So that makes one.

Even one disproves "utterly unthinkable."

Cling to that, R356. It seems you need it.

Next time, r357, try to show a little grace when you've been proven wrong after making a ridiculously sweeping generalization. It's what adults do.

Girls, girls, girls, behave yourselves. Wigs will not be thrown in this thread.

consuelo looks absolutely knackered

Why, R358? You don't deserve it.

Crew person to,d me Season 3 is now officially set to start in mid June, after Cynthia Nixon’s play completes its Broadway run and Carrie Coon returns from shooting The White Lotus in Thailand.

[quote]Emma, Lady Hamilton, was born a servant before she married the very wealthy Sir William Hamilton, the British ambassador to the Court of Naples.

You omitted a few "minor" details, like it being an affair (starting when she was 21 and he was 61, so EW KILL IT!!!) that eventually led to a marriage, and that nearly all of it took place a continent apart in Naples, at the time a low-rent area nowhere remotely near British society figures, nor is she ever known to have been presented to peerage as Sir William's wife back in Britain.

R362, I heard HBO hasn't decided how to handle the "Nixon Situation." Summer is when "And Just Like That..." is slated to film as well. If I had to guess I'd say Miranda will have a smaller role this season on it, since Ada's role clearly takes center stage now. In the past she's jumped back & forth between shooting the two shows: the two main sets actually aren't that far apart. (And note that Ada is one of the few cast members who always films on the Long Island backlot; she doesn't head up to Troy or Albany for the Newport scenes and the like.)

[quote]I'd say Miranda will have a smaller role this season

We're ready to step up!

Carrie coons is in white lotus!!! W00T!

R317 he was saying WAP because after 40 years, they finally have a queen with a Wet ass Pussy again.

R363, not true about Nixon. First of all the interior Van Rhijn house stuff shoots in a soundstage in Queens, not the Long Island backlot which is only used for the exterior East 60s stuff. And second of all of course she went up to Troy. The interior of St Thomas’ in the season premiere was shot up there as was the museum interior for the scene with Ada and Luke.

The Ada and Luke wedding was also shot in Troy.

r368, that was not called The Ada and Luke wedding, it was the Agnes goes to church scene...

I’m always a bit late finishing a season of a show and I just finished season 2 of this one. Oh how I love this absurd, delightful program.

It’s just gorgeous. I have to say my breath is taken away by the opening credits every single time — it’s the only opening I have watched rapt, episode after episode. I love the animation at the finale of the show opening so much I should be committed! Lisa Bolan has really outdone herself there — the way the light moves across the marble.

Even more so than Downton Abbey, this storytelling is such comfort food. I find a lot of enjoyment in its simple charm. I remember watching the episode in which Ada and her minister husband get home from their honeymoon and he experiences his first pain and, as I’m sure many of you did, exclaimed “he’s got cancer and won’t last the season!”

And so it was tonight, as soon as her deceased husband’s papers were invoked, I knew immediately how Agnes’s problems would all be solved (again, I’m sure most of you did too).

How I loved Mrs. Bruce at the Met, and Marian and Larry’s goodbye at the doorway. It’s just the sort of charming light storytelling I need right now. I’m sad it’s done for the season.

R369, in my twisted mind, Agnes silently walked down the aisle and Marian and Luke broke out in Mamma Mia with the entire congregation singing and dancing...

R370, that's how I felt about the Good Fight credits.

Everything alive, everything blown up in slow-mo.

It's "Dynasty" with bustles instead of shoulder pads!

[quote] The likelihood a Mrs. Russell would have given the extra tickets to her cook and housekeeper are pretty tiny.

They were just orchestra seats, who else could I have offered them to without causing unintended insult?

I deducted the cost of the tickets from their pay.

likely

[quote] I like Mrs. Fish, too

Mrs. Fish is like the sideline commentator for those of us too bored to give it our full attention -- "But there's no one here! And no Duke! Servant, call my carriage! I am going to Metropolitan."

Cunting Butler Simon Jones said somewhere last night that Ben Ahler’s nickname on set is “Clock Twink.”

[quote]Ben Ahler’s

Oh, dear.

[quote]Why wasn't Oscar at the meeting? Surely Ada knew he would be the MOST relieved that the situation was no longer a problem

Yeah I wondered that too R108

Bertha's massive win with the Met was something to see. Apparently the real Met building was demolished in the 60's to be replaced with some concrete carbuncle, what a shame

[quote] Apparently the real Met building was demolished in the 60's to be replaced with some concrete carbuncle, what a shame

"Apparently"???

AJLT starts filming in May. GA hasn't got a shoot date but the Newport locations require them to come in the off season so as not to disrupt the main tourist season (that's why they were plainly trying to pass off May as high summer in S1. I think. The first time Bertha went and stayed with the Foghorn Leghorns and got busted snooping in Mrs. Astor's house.). Shouldn't be that hard to get AJLT out of the way.

R381 yeah, demolished 1967 and replaced by the World Apparel Centre in 1970, which if you Google it is ugly as fuck