Pet Shop Boy Neil Tennant cunts on Taylor Swift

He looks great in that photo. And he’s not wrong.

He's right

Full quote:

"He continued, “I have listened to Taylor Swift’s album. Taylor Swift sort of fascinates me as a phenomenon because she’s so popular and I sort of quite like the whole thing. But then when I listen to the records, and we both have the same feeling actually, that for a phenomenon as big [as she is] … where are the famous songs? What is Taylor Swift’s ‘Billie Jean’?”

The interviewer then added that Swifties enjoy having a collective experience, and Tennant agreed. “I like that, I even sort of appreciate that, and I like the fact that it brings all these people together, even multigenerational, but I just think that the one disappointing thing is the music. Not even the lyrics, the music,” he said.

Agree.

I don't actively hate her but I think she was created for - or panders to - an audience. She's like the Restoration Hardware of music, designed to look like something classic or aged but with all the soul of a mall food court.

He was polite about what he said, but, yes, he's right. And he should know. The Pet Shop Boys have several songs that have stood the test of time. It's not just that I'm Gen X-- even Gen Z would recognize a few of their hits because they are still culturally relevant and appear in movies, tv, etc. The same cannot be said for Taylor Swift.

[quote]She's like the Restoration Hardware of music

This sounds cute and everything but Restoration Hardware's heyday was maybe 6 or 7 years long. Taylor Swift has been famous since she was 17 -- almost 20 years at this point. Her longevity is close to surpassing Madonna's.

And Blank Space is her Billie Jean. It's a cute song too.

[Quote] Her longevity is close to surpassing Madonna's.

Only in your mind

Right, Madonna was A-list globally through 3 decades: 80s, 90s, 00s (even though COADF and Hard Candy weren't big in America, they were big globally). Taylor will need to be popular for another decade or so to match that.

Until you said "Blank Space" - I, too, was drawing a blank for any stand out songs. Her songs are pretty forgettable, quite honestly, and I didn't recall that one at all until that post.

However, i maintain that it is a song that doesn't exactly spring to mind. None of her hits really do.

People are envious of her success.

You Belong to Me was huge and is the first song i think of when I think of Taylor. Her success speaks for itself.

Madonna was a global superstar from 1985 until 2005, when she had her last top 10 song.

You can’t claim the fucking 80s and 2000s as full decades of fame when she was either a nonentity or a else a has/been for 10 of those 20 years.

Besides that, at THIS point in Madonna’s career, Madonna was already flaming out. Taylor Swift is only now peaking, at age 35.

I was born in the 80s and I can’t name one song by the Pet Shop Boys or by Taylor Swift so I guess it takes one to know one.

West End Girls is a classic song and will forever be, even if the rest of their catalog didn't exist.

[Quote] Her longevity is close to surpassing Madonna's.

Yet, I can't name a single song title of Swift's

Her new song isn’t bad but I think that’s only because Post Malone is in it too. All her other tracks mush up in the back of my brain.

[quote] Madonna was a global superstar from 1985 until 2005, when she had her last top 10 song.

Again, GLOBALLY. And you are wrong. Her last top 10 song was actually Give Me all Your Luvin' which hit #10 on the Billboard Hot 100 and reached the top 20 in many other countries. And it was the year of her Superbowl performance.

Her defining song for me is Shake it Off. When I think of Taylor, this is the song playing in my head. I wasn’t really paying her much attention before but I knew who she was after this. It was fucking everywhere in 2014, even in supermarkets. You couldn’t get away from it if you tried. I think this is when her dominance started to reach next level.

That was in response to this comment. Also, she wasn't a has-been in the 90s.

[quote] You can’t claim the fucking 80s and 2000s as full decades of fame when she was either a nonentity or a else a has/been for 10 of those 20 years.

The only song I know is Shake it Off because a dance teacher used it all the time. I honestly don’t know any other songs. U don’t hate her, I just don’t know her.

Taylor Swift is what, years ago, was called bubblegum pop.

R17, it's sad that a 20-something year old woman wrote a lyric whining about how people criticize her for "staying out too late". She truly is an adolescent. And THIS is supposed to be a great songwriter?

While his criticism is absolutely valid, it could also be levied against the Pet Shop Boys.

Sure, if you're a fan, you know their ouevre and can list many of their songs. But, the criticism is that Swift doesn't have a "Billie Jean" - a song that is so closely associated with the artist and is widely known by the general public, not just fans.

Their two songs most widely known are a cover and West End Girls - and I question whether the average person knows West End Girls anymore.

True Taylor Swift fans, of which there are apparently MILLIONS, would likely easily name her "Billie Jean" just as Pet Shop Boys fans could tick off a list of their hits.

R22, but the difference is the Pet Shop Boys were never on the same level of Taylor or Michael Jackson. So it wouldn't make sense for them to have a "Billie Jean". "Billie Jean" is a song that is beloved by fans, the general public AND critics. Does Taylor have a single like that? No, I don't think she does.

[quote]Does Taylor have a single like that? No, I don't think she does.

And, I agreed that the criticism was valid that she does NOT have such a song.

R24, my bad. I do think you are right that most people wouldn't be able to name West End Girls but I also think that makes perfect sense since they were never considered on the level of Prince, Whitney, Michael, Madonna, George Michael or Bruce Springsteen in the 80s.

People saying they can't name one of her songs should include their age. That will explain everything.

[quote] Her longevity is close to surpassing Madonna's.

No. It's not.

[quote] And Blank Space is her Billie Jean. It's a cute song too.

No. It's not. Again.

She has nothing close to a Billie Jean, or a Like A Virgin or Vogue, or a Purple Rain...

When you reach a certain age, it's already an act of generosity to have an open mind about younger pop stars and their music. That achieved, it's even rarer for songs by "younger" artist to really register with an older listener.

Add to that, it is certainly true that popular music is more generic and fake than ever before.

And finally, Taylor is "fast food tasty generic slop" designed for global consumption and succeeding.

I'm saying biology is part of the reason Tennant can't retain the music but also, Taylor's music is not remarkably "musical" or "artistic". Not music for someone like Tennant - a former music critic himself - who has done postmodern, quite conceptual dance music for decades, not to mention all that shimmery pop music as well.

[quote] You can’t claim the fucking 80s and 2000s as full decades of fame when she was either a nonentity or a else a has/been for 10 of those 20 years.

Bullshit. Madonna started in 83. That's nearly the whole decade. From folks who lived through these times, to mainstream publications, academia, etc., it's well established that Madonna was the single female artist that ruled and defined the 1980s. Not even debatable. She also did extremely well for an aging female artist in the early 00s, with one of her biggest global hits, not to mention establishing herself as the world's top grossing female touring artist (until just the past year), with her most successful and longest tours well into her third decade and beyond.

[quote] Besides that, at THIS point in Madonna’s career, Madonna was already flaming out. Taylor Swift is only now peaking, at age 35.

Wrong. Again. Madonna had her biggest career resurgence in the later 90s with the Ray of Light project, which finally brought her critical acclaim, awards, etc...and introduced her to a new generation which then became a major part of her fanbase going forward. Also, as for artistic output, the 90s/Madonna's 30s were some of her most experimental and creative phases.

[quote] Madonna was a global superstar from 1985 until 2005, when she had her last top 10 song.

She still is. While firmly in legacy territory, she's still on a sold out tour right now, at 65, without a single cancellation.

And since Madonna has been injected into this brew, Madonna's music and career has very little in common, sonically or stylistically, with Swift's. Madonna's first album is a kick in the nuts - very urban and punchy. Madonna never turned her back completely on the propulsive dance stylings and managed a few tunes into her 50s, even.

Swift has absolutely zero grit, heat, or sex in her music.

I recognized the song at R17 once I played it but I had no idea it was a Taylor Swift song - I’m sure there are some others of hers that would be familiar if I heard them, but I can’t name any TS songs off the top of my head - which is fine, I’m old, but damn she sure is generic.

[quote]People don't write songs like Karma Chameleon any more.

Let's count that as a blessing, Neil.

Given her ubiquity, I'm sure I must have never heard bits of her music playing somewhere, sometime, quite likey on multiple, even many occasions...

But if you played the most recognizable parts of her most famous songs, I wouldn't have a clue who the fuck was singing. I would guess her music is as insipid as that thick powdery mask of old lady face paint she wears, but it's not music that enters my brain, it's just static background noise.

Those two old farts need to retire. Yes PSB had loads of amazing songs. But Neil looks like Wallace (minus Gromit) and Chris looks like a ridiculous propped up corpse with those stupid costumes and sunglasses. Like something out of Weekend at Bernie's or an elaborate macabre funeral for your rich black auntie who was larger than life.

I am by no means a Swiftie. That passive-aggressive narcissistic Disney princess folk singer who peaked in high school does nothing for me.

R34 Folk singer? Nothing about her is folk

When did Neil Tennant become John McCain?

R20 that is complete bollocks. I have only heard the last four albums and they could never be described as bubblegum pop.

Pet Shop Boys are more famous in UK than in US, like the Spice Girls.

R29, it really is interesting. Madonna is a piece of trash now and I am repulsed by her. But in retrospect, she really did take a LOT of crap for being in her 40s and still making hot songs. She was constantly mocked by others on tv for being old. And now, she really is old and weird. But look at others--Beyonce is over 40 and so is Shakira. They have no signs of stopping and nobody is even suggesting it. I think a lot of that is due to Madonna.

R30, that's exactly why Taylor does nothing for me. She has no edge to her. She is flavorless. She's vanilla wafers without any vanilla.

She’s a billionaire. Guess she doesn’t need a Billie Jean.

Madonna had a cultural impact that no other female artist has ever had.

I’ve never heard of either of Taylor’s “defining”songs. Perhaps it is time to, I don’t know, sell out a little and let a ketchup company use one as a jingle? Clearly, the appeal of Taylor Swift, and music in general anymore, is cult of personality, clickbait for an insular generation unconcerned about mass appeal as it was understood half a century ago.

I always love the way people throw out "he/she is a millionaire" as if that's some sort of testament to a person's innate talent and/or contribution toward the greater good of humanity.

I've heard that ad nauseum about Elon Musk too. They are millionaires/billionaires, ergo they are THE BEST AT LIFE AND WE SHOULD ALL BE AWED AND INSPIRED AND WANT TO BE LIKE THEM.

Except, that's rarely the case with people like them.

This past fall I was on a college tour road trip with my niece and we HAD to listen to Taylor Swift the whole time in the car. I swear every song sounded exactly alike and the lyrics were all basically telling the same story, over and over and over.

[quote]Pet Shop Boys are more famous in UK than in US, like the Spice Girls.

And?

Someone up thread said they never heard of Pet Shop Boys so I was just sayin…..they’re not so big in the US.

The Spice Girls were massive in America, not comparable to The Pet Shop Boys at all. I was around when they became popular. Wannabe (irritiating as fuck as it is) is massive on youtube and spotify, people still sing that stupid song.

Nonetheless Album by Pet Shop Boys debuts today. Tennant got some publicity.

PSB were a little too cerebral and gay to ever be huge mainstream pop stars in the US. Sure they had a few big hits, but they are more of a niche act. And there's nothing wrong with that.

It's a collective experience, nothing more. She is the most famous and beloved person I have known in my life to have so little merit. She writes her own songs? Who cares, they're beyond mediocre as is her music. I have to disagree with NT though in that I DON'T like it. People losing their heads and spending millions over an empty, no substance prefabricated singer does not bode well, especially when there are talented, creative musicians trying to bring something new into music but can barely make a living and get zero accolades.

R10 it really doesn't. It truly doesn't.

R14 it’s no one’s fault because you’re old and ignorant

Music doesn't reach people the same way as it did before the internet; a hit used to be a ubiquitous thing that was heard everywhere.

Hardly anyone listens to Top 40 radio. While Taylor Swift might be a global phenomenon to her fans for everyone else she is maybe only heard as low background music at a dentist office or grocery store and hardly noticed.

Her songs aren't really catchy enough to be remembered by people who aren't already fans.

Her Billie Jean/Vogue/Piano Man/Faith etc is probably Love Story. Which is a bit sad.

Billie Jean Vogue Piano Man Faith is my new drag name.

[quote]That's nearly the whole decade.

Please. Holiday and Lucky Star both came out in August 1983. If you're gonna try to round up and say that 7 years out of 10 is the whole decade, then you also have to round up and say that releasing a song in the 8th month of the year basically means the song in question didn't come out until 1984. You can't have that shit both ways.

So, just applying your own stupid logic, "nearly" the whole year of1983 passed before she released her first single. Which means 1984. Six years. She doesn't get credit for the entirety of the 80s, dummy.

[quote]Wrong. Again. Madonna had her biggest career resurgence in the later 90s with the Ray of Light project, which finally brought her critical acclaim, awards, etc..

You dumb bitch. Ray of Light was not Madonna's peak. Ray of Light was to Madonna what Believe was to Cher. A cute little second act following years in exile. People were happy for Madonna when Ray of Light came out. But they were also hiding the fact that they were listening to the record, because Madonna was past her sell by date, even factoring her reinvention as the so-called Ethereal Girl.

Madonna peaked in 1989-1990 with Vogue and Blond Ambition. Period. That means she peaked 16 years into her career. And since we are going by awards, what awards did she win that year? Did she win an Album of the Year Grammy in year sixteen of her career the way that Taylor Swift just won her FOURTH Album of the Year Grammy in year seventeen of hers?

What Grammies *has* Grandmadonna won, anyway?

Madonna has won several Grammys r57.

Madonna had a tremendous social and cultural impact that no other female artist has ever had. The kind of fame and the kind of influence that Madonna had at her peak does not exist in our culture anymore.

She now equals Madonna with UK No.1 albums.

Streaming will do that.

That damn song about the bleachers

She, Ed Sheeran, Adele- bland, vanilla, PR schooled to be totally anodyne.

Deserved.

Madonna was instrumental in formulating the acceptance of gays in society.

R51 You don't think she has talent?

R59. They’re both queer, so…

R6 true. But she hasn't been the Biggest Pop Star on the planet during that entire time.

When she started it was Beyonce. Then Gaga. Then her. Then Adele. Then Rihanna. Then Billie Eilish. Now it's her again.

I don’t think Taylor has been near a cock…ever.

All her boyfriends have ^^^^

You forgot Katy Perry

R66 you don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground

R70 THE SWIFTNESS HAVE INVADED!

Whenever I hear a "new" Taylor Swift sing, I immediately think, "Oh grow the Fuck up already." It's always the same 3-note melodies of a girl spewing her latest confessions from her diary.

How long will this 30 something woman, forever be the Cheerleader with her latest steady?

R72. no lies detected.

R65 Huh?

Interesting that she doesn't have a song in the sixty most streamed songs of all time. The Weeknd and Harry Styles have two songs each in the top twenty.

Here's the link to the top 100 most streamed songs (many from 2021/2022). She comes in at 69 with Cruel Summer.

The songs of Swift's I remember are Love Story, I Knew You Were Trouble, Style, Shake It Off, Blank Space, Bad Blood and End Game. Nothing off the last four albums which were all folk dirges ruined by Antonoff's bland production.

Shawnie Mendes has 3 songs on that list R75. I hadn't realized he was so successful at his peak.

It's a It's a It's a IT'S A SIN!

[quote] Pet Shop Boy Neil Tennant cunts on Taylor Swift

Far better than Neil cums on Taylor Swift.

I never bothered with Taylor after realizing she completely plagiarized Lorde's Royals with her "You need to calm down". After that I knew very well what a crap artist Taylor was and never even tried to bother with her again.

R76 Yeah TS is strangely absent from many of those accolades. You'd think she would show up WAY more.

At this point, the meta-narrative about Taylor's songs is bigger than the songs themselves. I saw a comment that said Taylor is the Marvel Cinematic Universe of music, and that seems pretty accurate. Without the larger narrative about her dating life, most of her songs wouldn't make much sense or resonate. Once she's gone and no one remembers/knows that narrative, it's questionable whether her individual songs will stand on their own.

R75, now, to be fair, almost every single song in the top 20 is mediocre. Based on that, you'd think Taylor would dominate the top 20.

Taylor's way of leaving Easter eggs in her songs sort of reminds me of Madonna. Madonna sang about domestic abuse and other things on the Like a Prayer album. She managed to use her personal life to sell records. And that's fine. But unlike Taylor, you never doubted Madonna was an ADULT woman doing this. Taylor's way of leaving Easter eggs is like an adolescent's Groundhog Day. She'll be leaving these Easter eggs again and again and again.

This reminds me of how at the end of his life Karl Lagerfeld started obsessing bout the Olsen twins on social media and would complain about them.

I'm not a fan, but as someone who's generally interested in music, I can name some songs that could qualify as her Billie Jean:

Shake It Off

Anti-Hero

Karma

Knew You Were Trouble

Cultural consumption is so segmented now, it's not really possible to have another Billie Jean — a song that dominates the radio and therefore culture at large. But a couple years ago, Anti-Hero came close; it was all over TV, commercials, social media for months.

[QUOTE] now, to be fair, almost every single song in the top 20 is mediocre.

What is mediocre about Blinding Lights and As It Was?

"Cultural consumption is so segmented now, it's not really possible to have another Billie Jean — a song that dominates the radio and therefore culture at large. "

But the wiki article R76 posted certainly shows there are songs that can still be massively succesfull, if not quite as massively as before.

Billie Jean was a creepy song about trying to avoid paying child support money, sung by a pedophile. Smooth Criminal was grim too - Jacko bragging about getting away with children rape because the world thought he was an eccentric cutie.

In the glory days of Twitter, one Swiftie got so mad at people making fun of the song “Me!” that they spoiled the ending to Avengers: Endgame on opening day.

The scenes.